View Full Version : Iberia arbitrator links profits, productivity to pilot pay boost

The Guvnor
20th Jul 2001, 11:48
From atwonline.com.

Dateline: Friday July 20, 2001

The arbitrator appointed by the Spanish government to resolve the dispute between
Iberia and its pilots ruled yesterday that pay increases should be linked to profits and

"There are neither winners nor losers. There is a fair balance between the aspirations of both sides, both, I insist, perfectly respectable and legitimate," said arbitrator
Federico Duran. He did not provide details of the targets but confirmed that a dispute-resolution committee would settle future disagreements between management
and the pilots' Sepla union during the next four years. Both Iberia and the pilots are
bound by the decision of the arbitrator, who was called in by the government after the
airline briefly suspended all its flights last week following the resignation of about 90 of its pilots. Iberia Chairman Xabier de Irala said he saw the offer as "positive."

Now this is the way that I've been saying that pay increases should be handled!! Well done, that man!

21st Jul 2001, 02:11
a bit "holy joe" guv.
you presume a management whose objective is to progress the airline, not a political agenda...
oh, to live in such a simple environement..
maybe someday..


The Guvnor
21st Jul 2001, 12:20
Why is it that pilots always think that people (usually management) are 'out to get them'?

A bit paranoid, don't you think? :D :D :D

21st Jul 2001, 18:04
Management are not ' out to get us '- they are out to get us on the cheap. It's the nature of the beast.

21st Jul 2001, 22:49
The Guvnor

Why is it that pilots always think that people (usually management) are 'out to get them'?
A bit paranoid, don't you think?

It seems to me that it is of itself 'a bit paranoid', if not downright insulting, to suggest as you do as a wannabe airline manager, that pilots think anything of the sort.

The usual mindless drivel from the usual mindless source :eek: :eek: :eek:

[ 21 July 2001: Message edited by: tilii ]

Notso Fantastic
22nd Jul 2001, 01:56
Well! Mr. "have an opinion about everything, especially to do with pilots, usually against them" Guvnor strikes again! Sad man....go off an live a life! If everybody would ignore him he may just go away! Whatever, his opinion on pilot matters is irrelevant! Understand everyone, he is winding you up--do not respond!

22nd Jul 2001, 12:16
Sadly, absolutely nothing will make this individual 'go away'. The Guvnor is now on post number 2271 and counting, approximately 2000 of which contain the same sort of drivel as his immediate past post above.

No, lads, the Guvnor is here to stay until Danny gives us a button that will enable us to 'eliminate' his type from this website. Even were he to be banned, you can bet your last dollar that he would re-emerge under another, equally arrogant, title. So, better the devil you know, don't you think? :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Happily, I, like others, have found he is quite easily suppressed by sustained intelligent assault. He simply cannot cope. :cool: :D :D :cool:

[ 22 July 2001: Message edited by: tilii ]

22nd Jul 2001, 15:03
It is really not that pilots are paranoid about mgmt "out to get them", it is that mgmt always bleat about being unable to pay the going rate, and ask for "breathing space" from the pilots, and then piss away the savings given, in mgmt inefficiency.

After going through this cycle many times, pilots are very skeptical of the "bona fides" of the need for sacrifice from them, as when the alleged hard times have passed, there is a distinct lack of enthusiasm in the rate of restoration of compensation.

When compensation is tied to productivity and profits, the wily beancounters can produce almost any picture you want, so once again, pilot skepticism on depending on the good faith of beancounters and management is common.

It all boils down to trust, and empirical evidence has taught pilots that it is not wise to blindly trust those who hold the purse strings. There may be a few who are worthy, but by and large a defensive posture is a wise precaution.

The Guvnor
22nd Jul 2001, 18:21
Thanks for the intelligent, reasoned position statement SeaSunSandFly - it's a pity that others here can't do the same!

OK, so how do you suggest getting around the traditional blocks on both sides, vis:

Pilots: Management are out to screw us/pay us as little as possible; and

Management: Pilots are overpaid and underworked.

I agree that there are a number of airlines where the management is less than scrupulous and/or ethical - but the fact is that the majority of companies are straightforward.

As you know, I have always been very much in favour of good basic pay plus bonuses related to productivity and profit. Some on here think that the profit figures can be manipulated - the fact is that: especially in the case of a publicly quoted company (as most airlines are) anyone who manipulates the accounts will end up counting prison bars rather than profits.

In any case, performance related objectives can be anything - an increase in the number of passengers carried; a decrease in the average cost per ATK or RPK; fuel conservation; ontime performance ... the list goes on.

According to the editorial in the current issue of Flight, the main problem seems to be the union-imposed seniority system which prevents free movement of labour (ie people are loath to move jobs when it means that they will have to start at the bottom of the seniority list again). This means that labour tends to be very inelastic - which is why they tend to be much more confrontational with management than in other industries. There, they could simply pack their bags and go off to greener pastures ... usually under better terms and conditions.

So what's the solution? Tilii as someoner with rather, er, strong opinions - I'm sure you can come up with a viable solution? :D :D :D

The Guvnor
24th Jul 2001, 12:18
Tilii - you really are full of yourself, aren't you? As it happens, I agree with some of what you said in your posting (but not all). I was merely waiting for others to add their input.... :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

25th Jul 2001, 23:41
And for that input, Guvnor, please now refer to the 'Logbook Scam' thread where it is abundantly clear what others think of your input on this website. :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Best Western
26th Jul 2001, 19:52
Is it just me or does anyone else wonder why everythingthat the Guvnor posts is so offensive to tilii?

Please take personal hatred elsewhere.