3 DIE on MIA-LHR

[ILS27LEFT]

THREE DIE ON US FLIGHTS

Another air passenger has died on a flight from Miami to Heathrow - the third in two days.


The 19-year-old died on the Virgin Atlantic flight shortly before landing and was pronounced dead on arrival at the London airport.

The flight crew and a doctor were unable to revive her.

The cause of death is not known.

It follows the deaths on Sunday of two passengers who were also travelling on a flight from Miami.

A female passenger fell ill on British Airways flight BA208 and the aircraft was diverted to Nova Scotia, Canada, so she could receive emergency treatment.

She died of a suspected heart attack.

A male passenger became ill after the flight resumed and died shortly before arriving at Heathrow.

He is though to have contracted viral meningitis.

A BA spokesman said the deaths were not linked.

[Timothy]

A BA spokesman said the deaths were not linked....little knowing that within hours they would all appear in the same posting on PPRuNe :}

Timothy

[Leezyjet]

This is just nothing more than a pure coincidence that all 3 happened to originate in MIA.

All 3 died for completely differant reasons.

I was at work today when the MIA flight came in and my department had to deal with it which was not a problem as we have to deal with medical emergencies all the time.

What was a problem was the Captain of the a/c calling us on frequency expecting US to call the young woman's father to tell him the news !!!. That's taking things a little bit too far in my book.


:(

[NigelOnDraft]

What was a problem was the Captain of the a/c calling us on frequency expecting US to call the young woman's father to tell him the news !!! You don't exactly state your position in this i.e. working for the airline, or its handling agent etc.

Whatever, is it not the duty of the police in the UK to pass on news such as this? It will take the airline to liaise with the police etc., but the police need to be involved I believe.

Where was the father? On the flight? Meeting the PAX at LHR? As Captain, he can only use the links to a company rep to try and get this distressing message passed ahead and dealt with as quickly and compassionately as possible. Not helped of course, by the totally unsecure nature of VHF / ACARS...

NoD

[Georgeablelovehowindia]

Yes, on the only occasion where I had a death in flight, the police were informed and it was their responsibility to advise the next of kin.

[Leezyjet]

Nigel,

The a/c was onstand with the doors open and the Police and Ambulance, duty managers/supervisors and customer service agents in attendance. The young woman's mother was also travelling with her.

And yes it is the job of the Police to inform the next-of-kin in the UK, but this guy expected us to just casually pick up the phone, call the father and "oh by the way.........." :rolleyes:

[woodpecker]

Leesyjet,

I presume by your comment "but this guy expected us" you are talking about the Captain.

He had obviously asked (via ACARS, VHF or HF) for your help. If it was outside your job description did you pass it on to the Police or was it just ignored?

The problem is, we should all be pulling in the same direction, giving the passengers the best possible service we can. Sitting up the front of a 777 we are very iscolated. You, and your colleagues, are our only form of contact with the outside world.


I would have thought part of your job is to help. It's a shame if you feel differently.

[Basil]

Leezyjet,
Bit of a nightmare situation. I guess if I absolutely had to pass on the news I'd get one of the older girls/guys in the office to do the deed before giving them the rest of the day off.

Flew a Spanish family on the first leg of their trip to LA to look at the site where their student pilot son had ploughed into the sea. They wanted to talk about it - not the pleasantest experience :(

[IanH]

Speaking as a former Traffic Cop in the UK....... its not the most pleasant experience telling someone that their nearest and dearest has passed away unexpectedly....... I had to tell a 15 year old girls mum that her daughter had been killed by a drunk driver just before Xmas a few years ago............ Its not something that should be done by phone, it is should be done in person by a Police officer who can assist and give advice etc....

I think our thoughts should be with the families of those who have lost loved ones and we shouldnt be arguing about the rights and wrongs about these tragic circumstances.....

Ian H

[innuendo]

Interesting, our company regs state that we are not to make a determination of death (particularly into LHR) as we are not competent to make that determination.
I'm sure that requesting someone competent for that purpose, to meet the flight would get the message across though.

[TightSlot]

Well said IanH - I wondered when one of the poor sods who actually have to perform this sad task (rather than just discuss it) would chip in.

And yes, that's exactly where our thoughts should be!

[dallas dude]

In the US, deaths in flight are refered to as "apparent deaths" as an MD is required to officially pronounce death and issue the death certificate (splitting hairs but...).

There are certainly many medical diversions every day, domestically.

It can be quite distressing for a crew (especially mid-atlantic and therefore somewhat helpless) knowing that, if they were overhead a more suitable region, medical assistance could be as little as fifteen to twenty minutes away.

I hope the flight crew(s) recognise that any feelings of guilt in these events are misplaced and that they share their thoughts in this matter with trusted counsel.

cheers,dd

[bjcc]

Deaths in the UK are 'apparent' too until they have been certified by a Doctor. Silly really when someones head is the other side of the road from thier torso, but thats the way things are.

A silly thing to ask someone to do ring and pass the news of a sudden death, still, probably through not having any experience of it.

Just for your info, when any of the emergency services at Heathrow are called, the others are notified. So asking for an ambulance to meet an aircraft which has someone ill or indeed dead will generate some Police interest.

Having done the same job (although not traffic) as IanH, passing a death message is not the my favoriate passtime, and relitives should never be told by phone

[gonnow air]

I also have had that sad duty in a former life and believe me it is the worst feeling in the world when you see the look on the faces of relatives when they open the door and see a police officer. I was given comprehensive training and went through various role playing situations before being given the sad role to perform.
There are a couple points that have to be clarified before even a police officer will inform relatives of a death. Firstly, as mentioned earlier, a qualified person must officially pronounce life extinct and secondly the identity of both the deceased and the believed relatives must be beyond reasonable doubt before any message is passed.

I find it hard to believe that anyone would have the stupidity to ask a third party to carry out the sad task. It is bad enough if you tell the right person of a death, just imagine if there was a slight error and the wrong person got the message.
Some procedures are developed that should never be ignored. No matter what, this is one of them.

[birdbrain]

Hey, heres a thought.
Y'know this 'air marshall' thingy going on at the mo, what about having a qualified MD double up as the Marshall on long haul/ ocean trips ???
Then he could shoot them first then fix them straight away!
He would be handy to have for other on-board emergencies too.:rolleyes:

on a more serious note, wonder if an on-board MD could have saved any of the aforementioned unfortunates ?

[Timothy]

On air ambulance, where there is a doctor, presumably competent to pronounce death, my experience is that the patient still doesn't die until in the ground ambulance and land-side, as the paperwork is less that way :E

Timothy

[Nearly Man]

Probably died cos they realised they were coming back to this ****e weather in UK

[radar707]

You will probably find that a doctor on board a flight will be unlikely to pronounce death as they then become embroiled in the future coroners enquiry etc. It tends to be left to the doctors on the ground to pronounce.

The Police are then informed and it is treated as a "sudden death."

The Police will then inform the next of kin and prepare reports for the coroner. Cause of death will usually be determined by a Post Mortem and the coroner returns a verdict at the subsequent enquiry if necessary. If the death is suspicious in any way then the Police continue with the relevant enquiries.

[Paracab]

Tim,

Patients who 'die' in ambulances are worked on i.e. CPR/ALS etc, therefore they effectively do not die in ambulances as they are still being resuscitated and having a dr on board the Helimed/ambulance etc generally means the patient will benefit from the dr's extended skills.

The exception to this is if a DNR order is in the possesion of the ambo crew and has been signed by a dr, within a timescale I can't quite remember at the mo - I think its two weeks.

Regards, PC.

[boredcounter]

In 15 years, I have (touch wood) only had to deal with one death in flight. On that occassion, on advice from a the very senior Captain operating the the flight, I notified the AAIB prior to the aircraft flying again. By the response from the duty callout dog from the AAIB, I gather, if not the correct course of action, it was indeed well recieved, and the a/c cleared to operate again as soon as, for want of a better expression, ready. In this instance, at the time, the death was sad, but natural.

Is it a mandatory report to the AAIB for all deaths in flight?
Does the above apply to non-G reggies in or arriving in UK airspace, or would it be the Country of reg'n who need advising.

Sorry, I should know, but don't.

Bored

[Four Seven Eleven]

Perhaps a technicality, but…..
The a/c was onstand with the doors open and the Police and Ambulance, duty managers/supervisors and customer service agents in attendance. The young woman's mother was also travelling with her.

And yes it is the job of the Police to inform the next-of-kin in the UK, but this guy expected us to just casually pick up the phone, call the father and "oh by the way.........."
From the above, the deceased’s next of kin was already aware of the death. Perhaps the pilot was passing on a request from the mother – although of course she would be in no condition to make the best decision at the time. Admittedly, the father’s reaction would be the same, but I wonder whether the police role ends when one member of the family has been informed.

All in all, a difficult situation.

[compressor stall]

A doctor is rarely going to pronounce someone dead outside a hospital environement (unless head on one side of the road and torso on the other etc). Paperwork and generally not enough equipment to make sure that 100% dead are the reasons. Also doctor is not working in a medical environment to back up his/her decision legally.

How many times do you head that the patient was pronounced dead upon arrival at xyz hospital? Be it ambulance or airmed flight.

CS