ATSA Positions

[Choices]

Facing the prospects of leaving college in june after completing my A Levels, i'm thinking of my options as I don't think the prospects of getting in CATC anytime before 2006 (if i'm lucky), i'm wondering of how to increase my chances of getting onto the course. So i've decided that I will apply as an ATSA to some of the local airports. I'd appreciate it if anyone can answer any of these questions for me;


Are ATSA's attached to a watch or on shifts?
Do these sort of positions come up often?
Is most of the training on the job or are you sent on a course?
Is the going rate still 13-14K? (I think that was mentioned on a previous thread [NATS Airports anyway])
Are ATSA's dying out with the introduction of electronic strips etc?


Any help would be really helpful, Thanks.

Adam.

:ok:

[bagpuss lives]

Hi there,

Are ATSA's attached to a watch or on shifts?

Yes to both. ATSAs working in operational areas (i.e the VCR / Approach or Area Centres) are indeed attached to watches and work shifts - usually in the pattern MMAANNOOOO but not by any means exclusively. Those deployed elsewhere may work days or a shift pattern that doesn't include nights or weekends.

Do these sort of positions come up often?

Speaking for NATS I'd have to say - operationally to outside candidates - no.

But there are many ATSAs employed in simulation work at the college down in Bournemouth, Terminal Control down at LTCC and at the three Area Control Centres (Swanwick, Prestwick and of course Manchester) . These jobs seem to appear on the intranet very often indeed - probably due to the high turnover in staff (most simulator staff move onwards and upwards within NATS to operational roles). If the posts aren't filled internally then they will be offered to external candidates. Best idea if you're interested in such a post is to pop a few CVs off to the appropriate recruitment department at the unit of your interest.

It's much easier to be employed as an operational ATSA within NATS if you're already within the organisation.

This shouldn't discourage you to pop your cv off to as many places as you're interested in if that's your plan.

I obviously can't comment on non-NATS airfields but I know some of them offer some lucky ATSAs ATCO training and subsequent validation if they are deemed to be of a high enough standard. Leeds and Liverpool spring to mind here.

Is most of the training on the job or are you sent on a course?

For NATS as far as I'm aware the college down in Bournemouth run a two / three week course for all new ATSA staff. That would only teach the basics of course - 90% of the training is on the job I would say.

Is the going rate still 13-14K? (I think that was mentioned on a previous thread [NATS Airports anyway])

For NATS airport ATSAs it is somewhat higher than that at about 19k - 23k (ATSA2 grade). Those who work in ACCs (ATSA3) earn more than that again. For your information I think those in the ATSA1 grade (most simulation input staff and some operational tower ATSAs) earn 16k - 19k.

Beware though, NATS staff are paid much more than their non-NATS equivalents as a general rule. A left over from the civil service days I think

Are ATSA's dying out with the introduction of electronic strips etc?

Complicated one this....

I'd say as a very long-term answer yes, certainly in operational roles. Electronic strips are due to be trialed at the moment at some major UK NATS airfields. If that trial were successful I would imagine it to become a death knell for tower ATSAs - perhaps not completely but certainly in terms of the numbers we have at the moment. Area-wise I'd say the threat is this new proposed Spanish system that is largely automated. But it will still need ATSAs in some part one would imagine - to take telephone calls, flight plans and the like.

In short then the answer, long term, is yes - eventually and provided the technology eventually appears.

But we've been saying that for years.

And there will always be a requirement for simulation ATSAs I'd think. Until we do what the Spanish do and get trainee pilots in to do the blip driving



I hope this helps you a bit and good luck!


(knew "she'd" come in useful one day ;) )

[Choices]

Thanks for the informative reply niteflite, I shall start producing CV's and harassing SATCO's :p

Cheers.

[PA7]

Choices

I believe that Farnborough are recruiting locally for 1 and possibly 2 ATSA's due to the lack of suitable candidates within NATS. If you are interested let me know.

PA7
A 1/4 Cherokee 3/4's animal:E

[saintex2002]

To nightflite 01 :

"... this new proposed Spanish system that is largely automated."

Can you light my mind about this spanish system ???
Is it an automatical electronic strips system based on the IFR flight plans data base only or does it works to with VFR flights too ??? VFR with FPL or NO FPL ???

merci pour ta reponse

[niknak]

Adam/Choices

While you've got the right idea about getting involved in ATC before applying to NATS for a cadetship, you will piss a very large number of people off (who will invest money and a lot of their time in training you), if you do get an ATSA position and then in three years time, leave for a cadetship.
To be honest, the majority of NATS ATS Managers will not employ you if they think that's your intention.

However, if you apply and are succesful in getting an ATSA post at a non NATS airport, you'll almost certainly find that they run their own in house training scheme for ATCOs, and you'd be wise to mention your desire to do this with them as opposed to a NATS cadetship.
Under those circumstances, you'd probably serve 2 - 3 years as an ATSA, apply for the ATCO training, get all your ratings, and 3 years or so after validating as an ATCO, you'd be in a strong position to review your options career wise, (especially if you wanted to defect to NATS).

You should also bear in mind that although a NATS cadetship is probably the best training you can get, there's no guarantee you'll be streamlined for the aerodrome and approach radar ratings, the majority of NATS cadets (I think) end up as area ATCOS.

I know of a few airports that are looking for atsa's, and also run their own atco training schemes, but they do have a 3 year bonding scheme after the atco validation and would not consider anyone who was looking to run off for a cadetship.

Good luck.
:ok:

[Radar35]

Choices

I would suggest you write/visit some local non-NATS units, as they tend to train in-house. Get an ATSA position and then year or two down the line get put through an ADC course and onwards to APC / APR.

The lack of TWR only chaps coming out of NATS is dwindling rapidly, so this would be your best solution.

But as previously stated by niknak units will not be overly impressed if you then leave after all the time and training invested on you, but regioanl airports like NJ, SH, NV, NT etc etc will would give you good experience and grounding. Also think about Finningly they will be recruiting this year and TWR ATCO's and ATSA are the first step for them to get things moving!!

Good Luck!