VHF or HF in PNG??

[safari suit]

Hi,

I'm flying up to PNG from Sydney next month to get some command hours to finish off my CPL, and I'm not sure if I really need HF.

I rang up a couple of blokes in Port Moresby CAA and they faxed me this list of frequencies which had HF and VHF on it. The ERC-L6 chart in Torres Straight says to contact the PNG FIS VHF on 124.9 once I'm outside the Australian FIR.

The HF in my hire plane is busted, and I'm hoping I can get away with just VHF radio up there. I'm planning Horn Island, Daru, Port Moresby, Nadzab, Madang. Is this a bit ambitious/stupid, for a bloke with 130 hours TT? I'm going up there to try and find someone who might give me a job one day.

Thanks heaps,
SS

[John Citizen]

Don't get too worried about which VHF/HF frequencies you need in PNG as Flight (lack of) Service are not always there to talk to you.

You can spend up to 10 minutes at times trying to contact Flight Service to get a position report out of something but you can not always find them.

Just when you think your radio is U/S, flight (lack of) service suddenly reappears.

Don't ever bother trying to put out a Mayday call to Flight (lack of) Service as chances are they won't hear you.

Unfortunately Flight (lack of) service seems to give more priority to chewing betelnut and playing soliatire all day.

Radio calls seem to be optional up here.

Make sure you also bring a bullet proof jacket if you come to PNG.

[griffinblack]

You will definitely need HF. You need to report to and give position reports to flight service every 30 mins and at each turn point within 2 mins. You will not do this with VHF and may need to try several freqs/agencies HF.

Is this a bit ambitious/stupid, for a bloke with 130 hours TT? YES, just a tad.

Good luck – you will need it.

[John Citizen]

You need to report to and give position reports to flight service every 30 mins and at each turn point within 2 mins.

Yes, in theory you need to do the above but don't bother about being accurate to within 2 minutes.

As I said earlier, sometimes it takes 10 minutes to raise Flight (lack of) Service just to give a position report.

You think they would be expecting a positon report from you and maybe listening out for you at your ETA but I don't think they care.

You can even miss your position report and they won't even call up looking for you - maybe not until 10 minutes after your ETA.

[troppo]

Take heed of the advice you got in the African Aviation forum and apply it to PNG.

If you really want to go get an Explorer Fare out of Cairns for $500 and bum a lift when you can around the country in return for some SP.

The HF in my hire plane is busted, and I'm hoping I can get away with ....

You will need to be very lucky to get away with anything...

[OzExpat]

PNG-RNC-1 carries the following statement :

Itinerant aircraft intending domestic flight in Papua New Guinea are required to be fitted with serviceable HF frequencies :
5565, 6622, 8837, 8861 and 8906 khz.

So yes, regardless of whatever else has already been posted about FIS here, you WILL need at least those frequencies to be available in your aircraft. VHF coverage has improved a bit in the last few years, so you MIGHT be able to raise Moresby FIS on VHF at the FIR boundary, but I wouldn't bet on it if I was you.

As you've already had some info from the PNG CAA, it's likely that you know that you need approval for the flight. But you may not yet be aware that you must make arrangements for CIQ clearance at Daru. And then you should be prepared to be waiting a few hours for them to turn up. :ugh:

And, yes, given your total flight experience to date - and considering the VASTLY different environment in which you gained those hours - I'd have to say that your plan is extremely ambitious. :eek: By all means, follow your plan as far as Port Moresby, staying over terrain that has few large rocks to get in your way. Call it quits at that though... I do not recommend you taking on a further journey to Nadzab or Madang, or anywhere else, because there's an awful lot of big rocks along the way...:ooh:

[The Voice]

just a quick question ..

why put yourself at great risk jollying over to a place where mere mortals fear to fly, when you can clock up the said hours having a jolly around the far flung remoter areas of Oz? .. mind you HF wouldn't go too far astray doing that either .. I've (in my previous days) had to deal with aircraft in distress on HF radio .. including a helo in diabolical trouble out off an oil rig .. it isn't the ideal, but at least you are heard! can't do that on VHF freq's when out of range ..

130 hours ... ten foot tall and bullet proof ...

don't be silly!

[Tinstaafl]

Do the people you're hiring the a/c from know that you intend to take it outside Oz? What insurance cover does it have?

[wb727d]

SAFARI SUIT SAFARI SUIT SAFARI SUIT

DO YOUR SELF A GREAT TURN AND STAY AT HOME


GET YOUR HOURS AND SOME HANDS ON EXP IN AUS BEFORE
YOU WORRY ABOUT PNG

130 HRS AND PNG DO NOT GO TOGETHER WELL

[safari suit]

Thanks for your help... really appreciate it. Just a couple more things.

I'm waiting on some charts to arrive and I don't exactly know how bad the terrain is.... sounds like it is worse than I thought. What is the LSALT from Port Moresby to Nadzab? And who do you contact to get approval for the flight, and make arrangements for CIQ at Daru?

The insurance cover extends to international flights, with a higher excess outside Oz.

Thanks

[tinpis]

Do yourself a favour and stay put in oz.Even a flight Cairns-Daru-Moresby with no rocks on the way can be very dodgy weather wise
HF never bloody worked even in taim bilong masta.

[troppo]

tell ya what...if you're dead set on going delay it til may and i'll come for a ride and hold your hand

[tinpis]

From many times gasping and wheezing without oxy in IMC I seem to remember the LSA POM -LAE was 14110'
Dont think its shrunk none.
Have a nice trip

[bigfella5]

Safari my man,
Have a look at the replies you've recieved.......can you see a trend developing?!!
When people who have flown in the region on a professional basis are telling you to give it a miss and do your flying here in Aus....probably a good idea to take heed.
I've looked over those answers above there's damn good advice sitting there.
So rather than be nice and say something along the lines of "perhaps best to think further on your need to go to PNG"...I'll put it this way....

Is this a bit ambitious/stupid, for a bloke with 130 hours TT?
In that question you'll find the answer....don't be a bloody fool boy!
If you want some advice as to some ways to build up your hours and you are serious about being a professional pilot,...PM me and I'll guide you towards some people up round here Far North Queensland way who'd be willing to help and advise you.
I'm not trying to be a mongrel....just hate seeing young fellas hurting themselves needlessly...that's what marriage is for!
Look after yourself.

[Johhny Utah]

mate,

you're biting off WAY more than you can chew :uhoh: I would recommend tht you definitely DO NOT try to fly around PNG by yourself unless you've had someone with A LOT of local experience (pref in the multiple 1000s of hours) show you how it's done.

The route POM-NZ can be flown at ~12000', but only if it is a gin clear day. Otherwise, I used to do it in the 402 at 14000' or higher. I'm not too sure what sort of aircraft you're planning on using, but unless it is either a highly powered single (C185, C206 at a stretch) or a twin with good performance (Baron, C310 or larger) then I don't think you should tempt fate.

I was of the understanding that private flights by foreign visitors weren't allowed in PNG. I believe this was introduced after a doctor/surgeon from Newcastle crashed his cessna whilst off track in between Port Moresby & Nadzab, killing not only himself but also his mate & their partners/children. As such, I'd be surprised if you were actually allowed to flight plan your trip. Then again, having been to PNG & seen how CAA operates, nothing should really surprise me...

I'd recommend that you DON'T do the trip - don't become another statistic. By all means come on up & see some operators, but don't count on scoring a job in PNG with low (< 1000 hrs) total time. At the end of the day, it really is for your own safety & well being...

PM me if you want any further info.

[compressor stall]

And also take advice from those who replied to you here (http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=114312&perpage=15&pagenumber=1)

Go around oz. Do yourself and your passengers a favour.

[OzExpat]

safari suit... I could answer your latest series of questions but I'm not going to. When I said : "By all means, follow your plan as far as Port Moresby", I neglected to add the vital phrase : "if you MUST" and it's omission made my previous comments sound a bit too generous.

In common with all of those who've posted since my last post, I strongly believe you should get the additional hours within Oz airspace. The sort of operators who might consider employing a brand new CPL won't even look at you until you have the licence because they can't plan that far ahead. Thus, the whole trip will be a waste of time and is likely to ruin your prospects for any sort of career in aviation, if you meet up with a rock in dodgy wx.

Take the advice that's already on this thread... please!

[The Voice]

and I think that just about sums it up ..

Oze should know what he is talking about Safari Suit ...

[Taildragger]

Safari Suit
Mate, I sincerely do NOT want to piss on your parade, but when people like Ozexpat and Tinpis (Whom I know) and others who I probably do know, tell you to back off, you can be sure they know a thing or two. What miserbale talent I have in flying, was severely tested to destruction in PNG with a damn sight more time in my Log Book. (If time alone is the crtierion) I saw people I knew and whom I respected very much indeed step out and kill themselves with high time in their log book. I have seen young pilots arriving in PNG ex Australia and within 5 days they had flown up the wrong branch of a valley, with the inevitable result.
In this case, he killed 10 people in a C185. (Yes, not a misprint - TEN. Children Infants, Adults etc) I knew a guy fly up the wrong valley in his twin on a trip he had done dozens of times. (Less than a week after he had got his shiny new IR) It is NOT an environment for new pilots, no matter how confident they feel.
In addition to the good advice not to do it, no one has mentioned the weather which can change in a heartbeat. You go in through the front door, which closes behind you, then the back door is bolted shut.... You have control ace.
I sincerely do not wish to put a dampener on you, but more to the point I don't want to see you dead either.
take good advice when you see it, and don't go to PNG UNTIL you have a lot more "difficult" time under your belt. Good airmanship is about good decision making...make the right one here.
In any case, certainly no operator will look at you until you are stood in front of him. Sorry to be so blunt mate, but I really would like to see you achieve your ambition ...... alive.

[Tail_Wheel]

"The HF in my hire plane is busted, and I'm hoping I can get away with just VHF radio up there. I'm planning Horn Island, Daru, Port Moresby, Nadzab, Madang. Is this a bit ambitious/stupid, for a bloke with 130 hours TT?"

No HF - no go! Period!

Port Moresby - Nadzab - Madang, no HF, 130 hours TT? Surely you jest? Don't even think about it in your wildest dreams!

Have you even considered the risks and requirements of the Cairns - HID - DAU sectors, particularly at this time of the year (wet season, mostly IMC), let alone the anticipated sectors within PNG?

The "smallest" aircraft Tinpis and Taildragger flew in PNG was a well maintained 300 HP C185 or C206. I assume you are considering using the average flying school training aircraft e.g. a C172 to visit PNG? If so, it has little hope of outclimbing the terrain when you end up in a blind alley - at 8,000 feet plus ASL!

I noticed your post didn't give details of the return flight. I would think that if you attempt the flight you propose, you probably won't need to consider the return flight details.

Also, you have no possible hope of pilot employment in PNG without at least 1,000 to 1,500 hours including very significant multi time. By the time you get there, any contacts you make at this time will be useless to you.

Don't do it. Don't even think about it!

[The Bullwinkle]

There are OLD pilots, and there are BOLD pilots, but there are no OLD, BOLD pilots !!!!!

My advice would be to stay at home.

You won't get a job in PNG unless you have heaps of ours in PNG anyway. You would be wasting your time as well as risking your life.

Even flying around Oz can be challenging.

To even consider going without an HF radio would be foolhardy to say the least. You need as many things going for you as possible. Don't risk the "she'll be right mate" attitude. It will bring you unstuck.

I would suggest flying around Australia a little first.

Good luck with the career.

BW

[2daddies]

Safari Suit,
I flew the better part of 1200 hours in PNG and, dude, I can tell you that even with another 1200 hours in country I'd still have serious doubts about flying up there from Aus - especially in a single.

You probably don't need my two-cents worth as the theme of this thread should be giving you a strong indication that going would be unwise to say the least. But I want to say this just to add another name to the list of those who are imploring you not to do it.

DO NOT DO IT!

Please.

Any questions or specific info you need R.E-reasons why not to go, feel free to PM me also.

[Metro man]

If you don't change your attitude to flying very soon I fully expect to be reading about you in an accident report. Your total lack of experience and gung ho approach are a dangerous combination.

Most of us with a bit of experience know some one who died in an aircraft accident ,I can think of 4 off the top of my head ,plus a few more who came close.

PNG has killed loads of highly experienced pilots with thousands of hours of local knowledge ,you do not stand a chance

Go and look at some aircraft wrecks ,read some accident reports and realise that could be you:(

[Pinky the pilot]

Although other posters have said far more eloquently than I could I'll still put in my 2 toea worth.
Do your flying in Aussie safari suit; Don't even think about going up to PNG the way you mentioned. If you're that keen to see the place fly there with Pixie and try to hitch a few rides with some of the blokes who work there.

You only live twice. Once when
you're born. Once when
you've looked death in the face.

[beerlover]

From memory i think the LSALT from Morseby to Nazab is about 13,500ft I would not suggest going up there with 130 hours.

Cheers beerlover.

[OzExpat]

It's actually 14,000 feet beerlover... but you're close enough. ;) Of course, if one happened to overshoot Nadzab without realising it, the LSALT becomes 16,000 pretty quickly... :eek:

[tinpis]

:* methinks this is a windup.

[troppo]

yeah he's gone a bit quiet...
maybe he's taken the advice and decided against it...or he's getting the HF fixed!!!:}

[poteroo]

Suit, those who ignore the lessons of history are condemned to repeat them!

The old Aussie Dept of Civil Aviation created ANO 28.1 in the early 1960's, specifically for the improvement of safety in PNG. It laid out specific route and airport experience and training requirements - for commercial and higher pilots! Not PPL's!!

It's nationalised format is probably still in existence. (Ozexpat would know)

If it's good enough for CPL/ATPL pilots to be so regulated - what price a low hours PPL?

happy days,

[safari suit]

Somebody said that it couldn't be done,
But he with a chuckle replied
That maybe it couldn't, but he would be one
Who wouldn't say no 'till he tried.
So he buckled right in with the trace of a grin
On his face. If he worried, he hid it.
He started to sing as he tackled the thing
That couldn't be done, and he did it.

Somebody scoffed: ''Oh, you'll never do that;
At least no one ever has done it;''
But he took off his coat and took off his hat
And the first thing he knew he'd begun it.
With the lift of his chin and a bit of a grin,
Without any doubting or quiddit,
He started to sing as he tackled the thing
That couldn't be done, and he did it.

There are thousands to tell you it cannot be done,
There are thousands to prophesy failure;
There are thousands to point out to you, one by one,
The dangers that wait to assail you.
But just buckle right in with a bit of a grin,
Then take off your coat and go to it;
Just start in to sing as you tackle the thing
That "cannot be done,"and you'll do it,
- Edgar A. Guest

[tinpis]

:hmm: who did Edgar fly for?

[OzExpat]

Okay, I've now lost all interest in this thread. Methinks it's just a wind-up but, if not, then the extremely foolhardy safarisuit is going to find out that Edgar wasn't always right. := By all means pal, go ahead and kill yourself... see if I care. Just have the courtesy not to kill anyone else at the same time. :mad:

RV6-VNE... all our CAOs have been withdrawn, as of 1 Jan 2004, coincident with the implementation of new Civil Aviation Regulations. All the specifications in all the CAOs have been incorporated into the new CARs. So, yes, CAO 28.1 and 28.2 live on in the new Regulation.

[Next Generation]

Safari Suit

Go do it then. Don't ask us for our advice, and then quote poetry when we offer you the benefit of our experience.

I won't be coming to your funeral though you dip****!

[wish2bflying]

Safari, mate, I don't get it. You've just posted a poem written about doing things like re-organising your garden or designing a better mousetrap and thrown it in the face of more than a dozen people older (perhaps) and wiser (certainly) than you, totally devaluing the depth of their experience, and I must say devaluing the care for their fellow man that they've all shown.

I lived in PNG for over 9 years, I'm the son of a pilot who was logging time all those 9 years, and I saw and heard about accidents up there continually. Most of the pilots involved would have had many thousands of hours.

If this is a wind-up, you're an idiot. If it's not, you're an idiot.

Either way, I'm here to tell you .....

YOU HAVE NO FRICKIN IDEA what you're getting yourself into!

Please at least tell the place you're hiring the aircraft from that they should get the insurance paperwork ready and start scouting around for a replacement.

[The Voice]

Wish I couldn't have said it better myself ..

[Taildragger]

Safari Suit .... .....

Your attitude reminds me of me when I was at your stage in flying, only I wasn't flying in PNG at the time, so I survived.
I am telling you pal, without one shadow of a doubt, and with no if's buts and ands, you are going to die, and when you see that mountain coming out of the cloud towards you, and when your bowels fill with instant water, the last thing that goes through your mind (Apart from the windshield) will be that you were given good advice, and you wish you had taken it. The saddest thing about it all, is that you will have taken a good aircraft with you. Your arrogance is staggering. This is not some Polar expedition, it is PNG, and I was frightened on EVERY trip up there.
It was fear that kept me alive. Your flying club, if they know the details, will not let you take the aircfraft .
When you get up there, (or down, as the case may be) please pass on my best regards to Mack Lee and all the other drinking buddies from the Temple, who's stools are empty.

[o1genesis]

I've been following this post for a while and have avoided contributing because I felt the advice given previously was sufficient.
I personally have 2000+ hours in PNG and whole heartedly agree that what you propose is insane.

PNG is a very unforgiving place to fly if you don't follow some basic rules and at 130 hours you won't have a clue about them. I think I survived my time there because I listened very carefully to my trainers - and needed 300 in country minimum before command plus route and strip checks - and you don't think you need that!!!!!!

If this is a "wind up" then please learn that a lot of people have put invaluable advice into this thread and all you have done is p#ss people off by doing your poem thing.

If your poem is serious then perhaps try driving your car into a brick wall at high speed. I'm sure that hasn't been done succesfully. At any rate you'll get the same result as your proposed PNG trip.


Mate if you do go....... can you post your itinerary on this site so that my mates that are still up there can steer well clear of you at the time.


Have a mountain free day!

Tasol.

[safari suit]

To be totally honest with you, I was getting pretty pi$$ed off with all the negativity. When most of you kept saying stuff like when you pop out of a cloud and slam into a rock, it just made me look like a wan7er. Of course I won't be flying through clouds around there. I am a NVFR rated pilot only - if I can't fly in VMC I won't fly at all. I know it's the wet season and there is the chance the conditions will beat me, and I'll have to turn around and fly home. If I make it, it will probably be one of the greatest achievements I've had. If not, atleast I had a go.

I have not disregarded the advice from the forum. I am flying a light twin, and from Daru to Port Moresby I will fly along the 4 or so airports along the coast, so the greatest time between strips is about 50 minutes. IF, and ONLY IF the weather is fine, I will try and fly from Kareema to Nadzab, by my calculations only about 45 minutes, and with VORs at each end, and with a much lower LSALT.

I have balanced the advice here with my flying schools owner who was born in PNG, and my flying schools ground theory teacher who flew up in PNG for 10 years. They are both happy for me to go.

Have a little faith.
Thanks

[Torres]

Kerema to Nadzab????????? And you anticipate attempting that, VFR, in the wet season, with 130 hours TT, in a "light twin", with no HF?

I don't recall an opertational VOR at Kerema, only the NDB?

".....it just made me look like a wan7er." Well, now you mention it............ You need your bloody head read!!!!!

"I have balanced the advice here with my flying schools owner who was born in PNG, and my flying schools ground theory teacher who flew up in PNG for 10 years. They are both happy for me to go."

How irresponsible!! Taildragger, Tinpis, OzExpat et al collectively have thousands of hours flying experience in PNG - and you get "..pi$$ed off with all the negativity.."

Find a new flying school whilst you can!

[2daddies]

Safari Suit,
I am sorry that my colleagues and I can't provide you with the answer you're so obviously looking for - tacit approval to "give it a go". I am not calling you a wan*er. But one of the biggest mistakes any pilot can make is to take professional advice to be a personal insult. Especially when you asked for it.

There are many good reasons why all of us have offered our opinion on this thread, but the main one is simple;

We know more about Papua New Guinea than you do.

That is not an insult. It is a fact and it allows us to pass on our experience (I bet if you added it up it'd be well over 20,000 hours in PNG alone) through considered opinion. Whether you choose to heed our opinions is of course entirely up to you, but I would implore you at this point to take personal pride out of the equation and try to balance your keenness to explore the limits of your professional abilities with even a little bit of humility. It might just save you.

If you decide to do this and all that we say doesn't stop you, please AT LEAST consider the following:

1) The only strips for your use between DAU & POM may appear to be adequate, but just because a book says so doesn't mean it will be that way. Unlike Australia, strip maintenance is minimal in PNG and heavy rain can make grass grow QUICKLY. Dirt strips can become mud in minutes and seemingly hard surfaces (like clay) will offer NO BRAKING ACTION AT ALL if wet. Do you know how to ground loop?

2) Kikori (which I suspect is one of the strips you plan on using) is made of Marsden Matting - perforated stainless-steel panels placed end-to-end. It looks nice and hard but make it even a little bit wet and you could very easily slide off the end when landing (have you done your homework on the different types of aquaplaning and more importantly how to avoid/deal with it?). Also Marsden Matting is rough as guts and will probably damage the relatively delicate undercarriage of your average light twin.

3) What will you do if you depart in clear skies, get to your destination only to find that it is covered in cloud, divert to where you started from and discover that it too has clouded over? THIS HAPPENS ALL THE TIME IN PNG. The weather is like that.

4) The LSALT between Kerema & Tsile Tsile (NDB near Nadzab) is 11,000 feet. Between Tsile Tsile & Nadzab it is 6,000 feet (almost as high as Mt Koszciusco). Even if you depart on a CAVOK day, what will you do if you have an engine failure enroute, bearing in mind that the law requires light twins to be able to maintain a positive rate of climb only up to 5000 feet AMSL? If you think you can descend visually and remain clear of terrain in the valleys think again. Most of the valleys bottom out at around 2000-4000 feet and end in ridges no lower than 5000 feet. Do you trust yourself to navigate in unfamiliar valleys (probably turbulent), surrounded by 10000 foot peaks, with one engine inoperative? What if you choose the wrong valley to fly up? What if you choose the right one but don't handle the plane like a test pilot and can only maintain 4800 feet?

This is why the PNG authorities require commercial pilots with no previous experience "in country" to perform at least 150 hours ICUS prior to being let loose with passengers.

5) Let's assume things go to plan except the weather, which is fickle to say the least. You can't take-off as the cloud is too thick and it stays that way for a few days. Where are you going to stay if you're in the bush? There are no hotels I can promise you. And have you heard of Malaria.........?

Once again, Safari, I would implore you not to do it. Having lost friends in PNG with much more experience than you I can honestly say that I do care whether or not you go. I wouldn't have written this if I didn't.

P.S - The VOR at Nadzab works just fine. I can't recall Kerema's ever working. In fact I thought it only had an NDB. Which also never worked.

P.P.S - You mention your NVFR. Ignore it, NVFR is illegal in PNG and thinking that it will add to your "bag of tricks" is deceptive. It will just tempt you to take risks. That is not an insult, it is a fact.

[wish2bflying]

So you know some people who were in PNG at some point, that's cool, maybe you can learn pidgin phrases like "Haus sik i stap we?".

Seriously, if those guys don't have significant command experience in PNG, they also have NO IDEA what you're flying into.

The two worst places in the world for weather are Borneo and PNG. They don't even bother trying to predict the weather across the country, because it can change faster than you can imagine.

I have been in a Cessna 402, enroute to POM, clear skies, and the weather closed in while the pilot had his head down doing a map check. Fortunately, we were able to turn back and dodge clouds and find a gap to get back to the airstrip we left from.

The point is this - you WILL get in trouble. How much trouble you simply have no concept of now.

--
Michael.

[the wizard of auz]

Safari suit, you sound like some one who has a death wish.
first this lunacy and then I stumbled on this...... I really wanna get kilt (http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=114312)

I personally think you shouldn't be let anywhere near an aircraft, your going to end up dead and probably kill some poor unsuspecting innocent in the process.

[wish2bflying]

Yeah, I read that one as well. Another thought I had is this ...

There is an award every year called the Darwin Award, usually awarded posthumously to a person who improves our gene pool... by removing themselves from it.
http://www.darwinawards.com/

I believe this thread should be submitted to this organisation, along with the accident report when it is released. Of course, that's assuming they find the wreckage and bother paying to remove it from the inaccessible mountain peak.

Guys like you piss me off. You've got more money than brains, leaving those more deserving of a chance in life shaking their heads in wonder at your breathtaking ignorance.

Why don't you at least do yourself a favour and take an instructor along from POM Aero Club. You can still log the hours, but PLEASE FOLLOW HIS INSTRUCTIONS.

--
Michael.

[bigfella5]

Hey People...
Assuming what Noddy here has said is correct........(assuming that they do in fact exist and are aware as to what the aforesaid Noddy is wanting to do)....it really does beg the question.........who are these morons floating around the training system advising young dopey ******s like SS that they should indeed go swanning about PNG at his level of experience??!!
I mean ,...I've met some stupid bastards in the Sydney basin operating in the flying training industry....but THAT stupid?!!
Me thinks that perhaps that the initial post was a bit of wishful thinking....
Interesting posts came out of it though.
Are we finished yet.....?:8

[Tinstaafl]

Jeez mate.

I have several ATPLs, 4500hrs in over 30 different types and I'd be very bloody hesitant to fly in PNG without a local pilot with me for a fair amount of time.

Christ knows what's going on between your ears.

[tinpis]

:} Then again we usda do it fairly wounded...... :rolleyes:

[Natit]

I was scared just heading up to AS from PF, solo, when I was building up Comm hours!

Take everyone's advice and PLEASE DON'T GO.. at least don't take a pax because you'll only be putting their life in danger.

Stick to AUS mate.. there is some beautiful scenery up North or even down in TAS.. stay here I tells ya :ok:

[Wheeler]

Great thread this. I'm certainly well put off!

I guess the answer is take one of these 'ere experts with you - any offers?

I think the Australian Bonaza society and maybe some others do organised 'fly outs' up there - maybe you should talk to them and tag on.

[Chimbu chuckles]

SS if your alleged instructors are saying "Go for it" then they are lieing about their experience in PNG.

I did nearly 14 years up there and 9500 hours. 36 of my friends died up there and without exception the most inexpereinced among them was vastly more experienced than you. With possibly one exception they all had a vastly better attitude to what they were doing than you and all knew the risks.

Later this year I'll probably be flying up to PNG in my own (HF equiped) Bonanza...but after being out of the place since 1999 I'll be taking more precautions than you seem to think necesary...because of my experience.

[Torres]

The Bonanza Tours to PNG are conducted by Bob Bates of Trans Niugini Tours (http://www.pngtours.com/info.html).

Bob is a very experienced PNG pilot with over thirty years PNG flying experience. His comments (http://www.pngtours.com/info.html#INFO7) are certainly worth reading.

Bob's guided Bonanza tours can't be compared to the suicidal adventure anticipated by Safari Suit.

[the looka]

SS, Tie a whole heap of helium balloons to a lounge chair, grab a slab and an air riffle and off you go. Same result, less expense. Launch from the madang country club about 8pm on a friday night if you must have a PNG swing to the tale. At least you'll have had a couple of good hours on the SP's.
Why not fly somewhere nice, Melbourne for the GP, Hamilton Island, Adels grove for a swim , Tasmania, where ever.You'll have the rest of your career to fly to the sh1t holes.
The good bit is after you survive GA.

[safari suit]

I admit that I was wrong... nows not the time to take on PNG. Going to finish the hours around Oz.

[tinpis]

Good lad... but dont write it off completely wait til you got a bit of time with a shonky aussie charter mob(not hard to find).

[compressor stall]

Good decision.

Plan on a trip up the flinders ranges, William Creek, Oodnadatta, Ayers Rock, Tennant Creek, Hooker Creek, Kununurra, Bungle Bungles, Halls Ck, Wolfe Creek Crater, Mitchell Plateau, Cape Leveque, Broome, Exmouth, Coral Bay, Carnarvon, Meeka, Kalgoorlie, Esperance, Caiguna, Forrest and back home wherever that might be. You'll have a blast!

And learn heaps, safely! :ok:

[Tinstaafl]

Good for you, SS! :ok:

[bigfella5]

ss,
Good choice.
Compressor has some good places marked out there.
Could I also suggest doing some (for want of a better phrase) mountain flying training to top it all off as well as a low level endorsement (when you get a few more hours under your belt).
I know there is guy who runs something along those lines down Victoria way.
Try ringing the CFI of Gold Coast Aviation and asking there.
Cheers

[Bellthorpe]

Safari,

How about printing off this thread, showing it to your instructors, and quoting their reactions?

[FarCu]

If your still there, your memory is correct re Kerema. NDB and DME only. You would also be interested to know there was a notam out advising that "Hoskins VOR U/S, Pilot Report". Lasted about 2 or 3 days.
For those unsure, Hoskins also only has a DME and NDB.