Air HongKong

[happydriver]

Saw an advertisement for F/O positions with a new freighter start up Air Hong Kong...supposedly a joint venture between CX and DHL operating AB300-600 freighters...any body out there with the inside track????.....many thanks in advance.

[Captain Stoobing]

I saw the same advertisment in the Australian yesterday.

Can anyone help me with any information as I am interested in the position.

Thank you all in advance.

Capt Stoobing.

[HotDog]

new freighter start up Air Hong Kong

For your information, AHK Air Hong Kong was formed in 1986 and commenced freight charter ops in 1988 with a 707F. An extensive scheduled operation continued with their first 747F in 1991. The company was eventually bought out by Cathay Pacific and their three 747 freighters integrated with Cathay Cargo which took over long haul operations. DHL has aquired 30% of Air Hong Kong forming a regional Asian operation with a fleet of 6 Airbus A300-600 aircraft with delivery expected towards the latter part of 2004 and early 2005. Presently AHK operate a wet lease A300-600 HKG/SIN and one B747 HKG/KIX.

[Hachiouji-shi]

Anyone with any idea of what Air HK might be paying for Captains and First Officers ?

[Fr8t M8te]

Not a lot is the answer..

If you have the qualifications then stick your name down to join Cathay Cargo as an F/O. Deal much better (not perfect) but a ladder to mainline eventually.

[T53C]

Here you go Capt Stoobing....

Air Hong Kong Limited
Formed in 2003. AHK is a business partnership between Cathay Pacific Airways Limited and DHL. It is a new airline that will fulfil the express mail and cargo requirements of D.H.L. in the South East Asian region.

AHK has ordered six new A300-600F aircraft from Airbus Industries and the first aircraft is scheduled to enter service in September 2004, with the remainder following in quick succession. There are options held by AHK for a further four A300-600F aircraft.

All line crew will be based in Singapore following their successful completion of the Airbus conversion training course in Toulouse.

With the prospect of expansion of the AHK network, further base options are being considered and case studies are continually ongoing.

AHK will sponsor the necessary residential and employment visas of new joining pilots so that they can live and work at their base.

Following a successful final interview a formal offer of employment will be made to the applicant. The signing of the offer of employment letter by the applicant and the company will constitute a contract and the provisions contained in the offer of employment become binding.

AHK will provide each pilot all necessary training. As a result, each pilot will be subject to three years training bond. The training bond will become repayable to the company, in accordance with Company Policy, should a pilot voluntarily decide to leave the Company before the completion of three years of employment, calculated from the date of joining.

Salary will be paid in US Dollars

An ‘Under Training' rate of pay will apply to new joining pilots until they have completed their conversion training course and been released to line training under supervision.

Line Pilots will receive an additional monthly Reimbursement of Expenses Incurred allowance which accumulates during time spent away from base. REI is calculated at an hourly rate.

Pilots will also accumulate additional remuneration through AHK's Incentive Pay Policy. This scheme will result in line pilots receiving additional US dollars per month if they fly more hours than the pre-determined monthly flying hour threshold.

Pilots will be entitled to 28 days annual leave. They are also entitled to sick leave, maternity leave and compassionate leave.

The company will provide medical insurance cover to the employee, spouse and dependent children in accordance with Company Policy.

The Company will provide life insurance to the value of 48 months salary.

The Company will provide each pilot a cash allowance as a contribution towards the provision of personal Loss of Licence protection.

Candidates applying for a Captain position shall have at least 5.000 hours total, 2.000 on jet.

Candidates applying for F/o position shall have at least 3.000 hours total, 1.000 on jet.

Good luck fella's!

:ok:

[James T. Kirk]

Hmmm, the fact that they talk about a bond is interesting. I thought that bonding was illegal in Hong Kong. Has that law changed?

[moosp]

Yes, I believe bonding is illegal in HKG. This is one of the several reasons that the crews are being based in SIN where it is legal and common.

Other bases for the future, as required to cover the DHL contract will be BKK and NRT, but there will be visa "sponsorship" problems for those ports so nothing definite yet. (Rumour has it that it is difficult to sponsor Indonesian and Philippino passport holders to those ports).

Street rumour is around USD$4,000 per month for Captains with projected IPP (Incentive Pay Policy) up to $3,000 on a really good month. So maybe half of that IPP for a regular month.

As you can see they are not trying to attract people away from the US majors. Most of the applicants are expected to come from S.E. Asia. Maybe to poach a few from Orient Thai, for instance, and there are still a lot of Philippine pilots that are out of work from the last cull at Philippine Airlines .

Just rumours and smoke, but there must be a fire there somewhere...

[HotDog]

Should be an interesting setup with Capt. G. O. at the helm.:rolleyes:

[Hachiouji-shi]

Hi, so how does one apply for AHK? Where can we get the necessary forms etc and where do we send them to? thanks...

[Schrodingers Cat]

So once again the Swire colonialists show thier true colors.....for every pathetic advert on TVB professing that CX is the 'heart of Hong Kong' and 'Hong Kong is our home' there is a pilots job off to Singapore on slave wages due to those inconsiderate labor laws about bonding........... surely it can't be long before even old Tung Chihuahuas' boys will notice the discrepancy between fiction and facts.......:suspect: :mad: :suspect:

[Thumbs up]

Just received an invitation to go for an initial Interview with AHK as a DE Captain.

It's been a long time between drinks,but I did a double take when I saw the conditions and Salary.

U.S. 60-70K for a Line Captain
A bit, and I mean a bit of Duty Allowance
and some overtime rate and starting point not stated
Medical insurance
some sympathy money for the misses if you cark it.
and something as a contribution to LOL.

The initial Base is Singapore but others are being considered.
I've never even being to Singapore,but would I be out of line suggesting the Salary would just cover an apartment for a family?.

Then there's schooling,transport and beer!

No,I must have it read it incorrectly,I'll read it again and this time I'll get it right.:bored:

[Schrodingers Cat]

Don't forget there is also the (intangible) reward of working for one of the aviation worlds great managers in Captain G.O. Few men have shown the quality of their integrity and management skills in the same way as G, ask anyone in CX. It is always worth remembering though that the'silent cockpit' philosophy that might be noted from other crewmembers when the great man deigns to grace the flight deck, is not, as you may well think, a result of Gs management methods in the past....ooooh no, they are just in awe of his magnificence.................:ooh: :ooh: :ooh: :ooh: :ooh: :yuk:

[VR-HFX]

Puss-in-Boots

We may disagree on some issues but NOT this one.

I was always taught not to speak or even think ill of my fellow man but there is always one exception in a lifetime that provides the requisite extenuating circumstances. In GO all the stars line up.

Power corrupts and I have no doubt absolute power will corrupt absolutely.

On the Hofstede Index - a serious yoghurt when it comes to the possible effects of culture on inter-cockpit communications.

TBOBL

[Captain Stoobing]

Well Ladies and Gentlemen,

Do I even bother to make the effort to go up there and talk to these people? Please no sarcastic replies as I need to sort this out ASAP.
There seems to be a lot of negativity about this.

Is this going to inhibit any CX or Dragon chances I may have in the future?

Help please!!!!!!!!!!

Capt Stoobing.:ugh:

[VR-HFX]

Capt Stoo

I have no idea what kind of experience you have but if it were me I would be applying for CX mainline S/O. If you are older with experience try an F/O application with CX Freighters or KA.

I would stay away from AHK. If you have thick skin, that is one thing, but the COS do not give you a chance of any kind of an existence in Singapore.

[moon_towers]

Hi folks,

I returned from seeing RD n Cpt.T at 10th Floor Marina
appreciate to all feed-back.

m_t

[hi alt]

I have some inside guff on the DHL/AHK spots. Cx have told mainline and freighter drivers that the initial crews will be contracted from europe.
What they failed to say was that their package was so sh1t that they couldn't get enough pilots to commence full services for the 6 airframes!
They were and still are offering minimal pay, no housing allowance in WSSS, no travel allowance ( big hit there expats if you would like to travel home once per year to let the kiddies see the oldies b4 they die), minimal medical and LOLI.

All in all this whole deal is promoting a potentially dangerous environment if they cannot get the required numbers they might drop the standard and thn start dropping airframes.
The A300-600 is not a small acft and just because its night freight doesn't mean all smooth sailing.
I welcome the unlucky sods to the equator and southern chinese coast during the upcoming wet season. Don't forget when flying approaches in typhoon wx if the radar is all red it hasn't failed it is just that ****ty.

Godd luck flying with DHL if you really think you are worth that little.
Try applying to CX freighters or Dragonair cargo they have just announced 3 744's to be converted to freighters for extra services to europe!
Then again you will need right of abode in europe won't you.



:sad:

[Ramboflyer 1]

The only way they will get real pilots is to let them bid into CX Cargo after 3 years, at the very least.

[Skaz]

Do these guys have the same kind of medical requirements as the mainline Cathay ops?

Does anybody know what those req are? 'specially the eyesight?

search function doesnt work, just in case you wondered

cheers

[fool me once]

ATTENTION: ALL THOSE INTERESTED IN THIS VENTURE

Very simply...DON'T DO IT!

This is without doubt the most cynical attempt at undermining the pilot profession ever tried by the discredited CX management. The fact that they are putting it under the AHK banner, and locating it in Singapore shows just how lacking in integrity they now are.

For those who are contemplating this job, consider:

1. Barely livable salary
2. Non-existant housing allowance (...you will live in the YMCA if your lucky)
3. No proper travel allowance.
4. 'Incentive' based flying allowance (read: worked to death)
5. Managed by G.O. (the most venal and self-serving man in the industry).
6. Based in Singapore, which lacks the most basic of worker protections (even less than HongKong..which is saying something).

Gentlemen, it is assured that should you take this job, you will live to regret it. You will live like a pauper, and be worked to death. Any complaint and you will be summararily fired.

There are proper employers and proper jobs. This is NOT one of them.

[HotDog]

Managed by G.O. That's a bit of an oxymoron:sad:

[VR-HFX]

Fool me Once, Fool me Twice...but don't let me be be lonely tonight.

Unless they wise up and base people in OZ they won't get but a simple simian.

There is probably a fair chance they will get quality folk (even for peanuts) if they face up to the fact that some people will work for petty cash between mowing the lawn and going fishing as long as they can do it as a hobby. But that may also be a big ask when it is all back of the clock with no view.

As a career .... forget it.

Even the retirees that need the cash to feed the alimony buffets won't be lining up.

HD...you've obviously flown with GO:E

[christep]

I'm sorry to jump in when maybe it is none of my business, but I feel I have to make an observation, as an interested SLF based in HK...

I am an expat in the sense that I moved here from the UK for the employer I now have (a big multinational). However, neither I, nor any of my "expat" colleagues get housing allowance or cost of living adjustments, and roughly 30% of my "pay" is "incentive" - dependent on the results I deliver. My salary is totally in line with what my "local" colleagues get.

The days when "expats" got special treatment, at huge cost to their employers, simply because they were "expats", not because they were inherently any better at the job, are pretty much gone in every other industry - why should flying planes be any different?

[FatEric]

Christep,

You are welcome to jump in here and throw in your 2 cents worth.

Your post was more informative and real world than the childish "we must be treated like royalty" diatribe from the aviating ppruners.

75000 USD is approx what will be paid to SIN based pilots to fly 3-4 nights per week for DHL.

HFX has already made the comment about monkeys and peanuts. But maybe paying more peanuts just gets you greedier monkeys.

Fool me once,

Have you ever lived in SIN. Could you quote the price of a rental appartment. Do you know what sort of tax system there is.

Maybe you could tell me how DHL in SIN would compare to Jetblue based in NYC for example.

But more importantly, if there are many qualified pilots willing to apply to DHL (and there are), then dont you think the market has spoken.

No one is forcing you to apply to DHL.

Why are you so wound up about it.

[fool me once]

...tell you what FatEric, let's just wait a year and then discuss the turnover at the DHL salt mine shall we...? FYI, I have spent the past 21 years in and around Asia (sin,hk,bkk). For a North American, European or other western national to just 'pitch up' in Singapore and think they can settle down on the salary being offered at DHL...who are YOU trying to kid. Unless they are single, don't like socialising, can survive on 1 1/2 meals a day, and have NO need to put anything away for retirement....then sure, it will be a GREAT JOB...!

There is a certain value to the piloting profession. The sad thing is there will always be people like yourselves who don't value themselves and their skills very highly. You only have so many hours of work available in your lifetime.....I suggest that you maximise what each of them is worth.

Basically, I suggest that if this job is in any way appealing to you....you need another profession.

[fire wall]

Try answering his post with reasoning rather than rhetoric and you may convert him to your way of thinking. Insult him and you have no f ing hope. If we are to protect our conditions then we need all on side……..engage brain before mouth usually works.

Fat Eric, admittedly the last time I was in Singapore was 2000 looking for apartments so as to take up the SQ 777 deal. I have worked in Asia since 1993 so I reckon I know what I am talking about. Prices may now not be relevant as Singapore has had a big wake up pill in that few have found they really need any manufactured goods from them anymore……cheaper elsewhere to set up……abundance of cheap coolie labour in the region hence the devaluation of the Sing $ to try and get back the edge……..I suspect to no avail and their day in the sun is over. Sorry, rambling on…..you will be lucky to get an apartment close to the airport and inhabitable for less than $5000 (all prices quoted in Sing $) a month, you will be even luckier to get pwr and tel + other essentials set up for another 5000 and don’t forget rental bond which, if you get back, you can count yourself as one of the few as most of my mates have been robbed blind. Apartment will have to be near the a/port as there is no way in hell you will be able to afford a car. A social life will cost you a mint….forget going out for a good night out at a western restaurant with booze for less than $200…..make that 300 if your missus drinks like mine…..

Check out far east forum for extensive comments re SQ cargo operation about 3 months back……..all relevant to you and I suspect you will see that all is not so rosy.
Regards
FW

[fool me once]

..uh, firewall....how exactly did I 'insult' him...? and as for 'rhetoric', your post basically confirmed the very issues I raised. My only 'personal' comment that I directed to Fat Eric was that if he thought the DHL job was reasonable, then perhaps he needs a different profession. I stand by that comment, and it wasn't intended as an insult. If we REALLY want to protect our profession, perhaps those who are willing to sell it short should be forced out....one way or the other....just as other professional groups do I might add.

[FatEric]

Fool me once,

I am still interested to know why people who are not applying to AHK are so keen to be involved in a debate about its merits. What interest do you have in the turnover at AHK? Turnover is often unrelated to income. Are you suggesting company’s just shell out more dollars so bandits like you will stay? That is called ransom.

You have no right to tell others to leave the profession simply because they have an agenda different to yours. If your guiding light is money then so be it but don’t expect others to be so driven by only one issue. The harsh reality is, it is people with precisely your attitude that will be forced out of the game as fewer incumbent carriers employ crew on the old pay rates and more carriers expand using franchise outfits paying lower wages. The lion’s share of pilots in the US is being employed by Jetblue, Frontier, and Airtran etc – not the majors. If you cant cope with this reality then don’t let the door hit you on your ass on the way out.
DHL will be flooded with applicants and as I have said, the market has a much louder voice than you or I.

Fire Wall,

I recently left SIN where I worked for SQ. As someone has already mentioned on the far east thread regarding SIN, new apartments are available with 3 BR, pool etc for under 2000 SD – some were living in new condos for 1700 SD – per month. 5000!!! Would rent you a 3500 sq foot penthouse with 5 BR, 2 balconies, 4 bathrooms etc – I once lived in such a place and it now rents for 5500 SD.

Utilities will cost you less than 1000 easily, more like 500 if you are careful (in a 3 BR). I am not sure what restaurants you eat at but 200 SD is dinner and drinks at raffles.

Kids will blow the budget for education – as will cars.

Lets at least debate using factual information.

[fool me once]

hmmm......nice and measured FatEric. Firstly, you seem to think that I would only 'go' and join DHL if they paid me a 'bandit' salary....and that somehow my desire to earn a wage that represents my value is somehow 'outdated' and unreasonable.

What is so unreasonble about expecting 'responsible' employers to provide a salary and benefit package that allows an individual to do the following:

1. Buy a home
2. Support a wife and children
3. Educate those children
4. Provide for a comfortable retirement
5. Enjoy some time off (ie: afford a holiday once in a while)
6. Afford to run a car
...etc...

The sad reality of the moment is that we are going through a period of time in the industry that sees the accountants running airlines with 'short-term' results as their main goal. This completely ignores the fact that in the long run, an airline will slowly spiral to their grave if they are constantly dealing with turn-over, low morale and the GUARANTEED results of a lowered safety record.

It is also a sad reality that there is a group of pilots who value themselves so poorly that they will ACCEPT what are UNDOUBTABLY unreasonable conditions. An airline like Southwest Airlines here in the US can use proper management techniques that result in a low cost basis, but still manage to provide amongst the highest salary and benefit packages in the industry. Perhaps you can explain why DHL seemingly can't...?

Fact is FatEric, you are trying to justify your own low self-esteem, and your decision to work for what is nothing more than indentured servitude. Whether or not you resent that conclusion is of no consequence, as the facts stand for themselves.

Incidentally, you mention that they are swamped with applications. I have an insight to what is really happening at their recruitment office, and I can assure you that they are having a GREAT deal of difficulty recruiting SUITABLE applicants.

FatEric, the answer is simple. If there weren't pilots who would do the job for penuary wages, the wages would rise.

You question why I am 'so worked' up about DHL......but I am more interested why you seem so adamant about defending it (...defending the indefensible).

BTW, your own costings on food, housing, car, school etc demonstrate that you wouild be going backwards financially from the moment you started.

To those pilots out there who don't want to find themselves in a VERY miserable situation, don't even consider this joke of a job.

[Thumbs up]

Indeed CHRISTEP,your two cents worth is welcome.However for someone whose indicated that the're not in the aviation game you've got a lot to say.about $5.60 worth at a glance.
Your comments about the changes in expats conditions may be valid,but you have not given us an idea as to how much your Multi National Company rewards you for you talents.

We are talking here about a company who will value their skilled workers by paying them enough to afford an apartment to live in and little else.I mentioned to a friend that you could supplement your income on days off by putting a patch over your eye getting into some old clothes and sit on the street corner with your hand out,but thats illegal I'm told.

Other Ozzies,like me who were granted interviews were quite excited by the prospects of AHK,until we read the conditions.Everything that fool me once says is right on.What their offering is an embarrassment to the industry.I,and other Ozzies that I know who were invited to Singers for an interview will certainly not be attending.It will be interesting to see what sort of people will be attending.

Fat Eric ,no one is asking to be "treated like royalty' and on the other hand we will not be treated like paupers and at best thats what AHK is offering.I know!,why don't they just employ locals,then they won't have to deal with ungrateful whingers like me.

FinallyChristep ,I see you live in Honkers,but would you have made your move from the UK to Singers with Wife and kids in tow on US$70k salary (and thats for a captain)?.:ugh:

edited;$US not $S

[christep]

It isn't really the absolute salaries that I was commenting on - more the apparent expectation that there should be two different rates for the job, depending solely on whether you move from another country to do it... that's what I can't see any logic for.

If there is a sufficient supply of pilots in Singapore (or Hong Kong) then I see no reason why an employer should pay a premium to bring someone from somewhere else. And if there isn't a sufficient supply then surely the most logical thing to do is to raise the salaries of all pilots employed in Singapore until you reach the point where you do have enough applicants?

It seems to me, naively perhaps, that airline pilots are actually one of the most global of commodities - no language barriers (all speak English - yes, OK, I know that's not totally true), more or less complete standardisation of job specifications (flying an A340 for CX is much the same as flying one for any other airline), and so on.

By the way, as a sometime recipient, I do understand that the expat packages are nice to have - I came to HK on one 5 years ago, and at that time the company in its misguided generosity rented an apartment for me at HK$50,000 per month, and gave me a cost of living allowance on top of my UK salary. They did however also "hypotax" me as if I was still living in the UK. Yes the total package was substantially more than DHL apparently pays people for flying out of Singapore. Perhaps similar (from what I have read) to what a CX passenger captain of middling seniority would get, although without the travel perks and with a bigger tax hit. That was for having P&L responsibility for about US$150M of business a year and managing a couple of hundred people around the region.

But when the telecoms bubble burst (that being the business that I am) this extravagence was not sustainable any more. Now I rent my own place (for HK$20K, but soon to move downscale a bit further). Because of the hypotax impact I'm not much worse off in fact for the loss of allowances - I have an apartment that is more or less identical to the $50K one, albeit without the magnificent view.

As a sanity check on all of this, remember that the average household income in Hong Kong is under HK$20K per month and that people do bring up families quite comfortably on that. I don't have enough knowledge of Singapore to be able to comment specifically on how the numbers work there.

[FatEric]

Fool me once,

There are thousands of pilots currently unemployed - especially in the US from major airline furlow's - with more to come recently announced. There are STILL pilots seeking employment from failed airlines such as Sabena, Swissair, Ansett.

The current generation of airliners are far easier to operate than the previous generation - many carriers of dubious quality are proving that every day - some with perfect safety records.

Would you consider that maybe your "value" has changed.

You are perfectly entitled to desire certain benefits from your employer - you have the freedom to chose where you work. If DHL do not provide you with a salary that enables you to own a house, a car and educate your children then dont apply. DHL is not the place for you. Simple.

You state your personal opinion as though it were fact. Why on earth would you infer that people applying for a position as a pilot would "undervalue themselves".

Thankyou for your concern about my self esteem - it is fine. I do not work for DHL and probably never will, but I know many fine colleagues seriously considering the position as we speak.

I am not defending DHL - I have nothing at all to do with them. I do see this case as an example of a wider trend within the industry of airline flying.

Perhaps you could explain to me how one "would be going backwards" based on the info I supplied.

[fire wall]

Fat Eric you replied
"Lets at least debate using factual information"

I clearly stated that the figures were relevant in yr 2000.
Further, I've never eaten at raffles but do enjoy a bottle of wine with my tucker....so a meal for two and a bottle of decent plonk and SGD 200 still stands....anywhere on Orchard rd and a decent bottle will start at SGD 60.....heaven forbid I may desire 2 bottles of gargle blaster.....close enough to SGD 300............ I figure when you are dead it tends to be for a long time.
If you wish to confine your social activities to the Salmanella stalls on the side of the road then that is your perogative.

Apartment prices were for Bayshaw park/Granville and surrounding area. I have no doubt that they have gone down......explained all the reasoning to you in my previous post ....but I doubt that they have gone down to the extent you quoted in an area so close to the a/port.

It seems from your responses that you will read what you want to read into the pay and conditions.....good luck to you. I know the people who will be your superiors. If past performance is any indication.....and it is at best a good barometre....then you are in for a most enjoyable ride (sic) in both conditions and in the manner you will be treated.

We get what we deserve in life........give it some thought.

[HotDog]

christep,

That was for having P&L responsibility for about US$150M of business a year and managing a couple of hundred people around the region.

Every time a Cathay captain takes off, he is responsible for equipment that is worth USD150 minimum plus the lives of 300 to 400 passengers.

If there is a sufficient supply of pilots in Singapore (or Hong Kong) then I see no reason why an employer should pay a premium to bring someone from somewhere else. And if there isn't a sufficient supply then surely the most logical thing to do is to raise the salaries of all pilots employed in Singapore until you reach the point where you do have enough applicants?

If you raised local salaries to expat levels, you still wouldn't get enough local trained pilots to fill the requirements and if you want to attract expats, you can't expect anyone to lower his living standards from UK or Australia; which means having to pay housing, education etc. allowances. Aviation is not like Telecoms, this bubble is not about to burst.

[FatEric]

Fire wall.

You are quite correct - you were using outdated figures that I overlooked. My appologies.

The figures I used were from my experience living in East Coast and on Orchard road. I have never heard of Granville. The figures are correct and straight off the tennancy agreement, circa 2003/2004. They are still on the decline.

Hotdog,

Strategy and tactics are two very different things.

[spleener]

Perhaps this is not relevent - though as I have no real interest in DHL here goes:
A good many years ago I was patiently waiting in line at the immigration counter at Kai Tak prior to flying to LHR on CX250. The queue was long and progressing quite slowly. Granted last minute boarding passes from the staff counter we remained in line. Around this time, my wife and I were roughly moved aside by G.O. and Family as he LOUDLY announced his requirement to bypass the peasants in line and make his 'imperative' connection. He pushed in front of 20plus passengers.. We subsequently boarded CX250 with time to spare. Adjacent, sipping Krug, sat G.O. & co.
Unfortunately, this was not my only encounter with this gentleman and I cannot report any redeeming qualities. Beware.
Kind regards to all
the spleen.

[fool me once]

...oh boy....if only PPRUNE's servers had the capacity to handle all the G.O. stories.....!

[christep]

HotDog,

I disagree with your premise. Or at least it isn't true in all cases:

I get more or less the same gross salary in Hk as I would get in the UK. I don't get any housing allowances, COLAs or anything like that. The standard of living I enjoy is at least as high in HK as it would be in London - the higher costs of some items in HK (and there are plenty of things which are the same or cheaper) is offset by the fact that I am taxed at about 15% rather than about 35% on my salary, and also by the fact that I do not have to pay any tax on profits from my savings investments.

I simply don't agree - certainly in the absence of kids of school age - that allowances are necessary to have the same standard of living in HK as in the UK.

Note though that "have the same standard of living" is not the same as "live in Hong Kong as if you were living in London".

[Hachiouji-shi]

what is the difference if one gets employed by AHK via White Wings Europe and directly through AHK? both are permanent terms? anyway, any latest developments ?

[Schrodingers Cat]

I am afraid that you will find that the Swire colonial management, and GO especially, have a far different view of the word 'permanent' than most people when it comes to employment matters.......ask the 49'ers, the peanut man, or even the flight engineers sacked so that others could replace them on lower wages by, you guessed it...ASL and its eventual (wholly owned) 'client' AHK.........:yuk:

[Freehills]

Note that AHK has advertised in Indonesia for flight crew... Don't think they can expect too many "traditional" expats to take the job with the package on offer.

Garuda captain (AFAIK) gets about 40K pa, so it might tempt some of them across to Singapore.

Permanent in HK = three months...

[VR-HFX]

Now I think we are getting close to what this is all about.

AHK is looking for cheap labour to fly the night sky and they just might get what they want, although I would bet London to a brick that GO won't be making USD70,000 pa.

It is, however, definitely not a job that anyone aspiring to an airline career would want.


If Fedex didn't mind supporting a movie that had their little boxes washing ashore in the Pacific to provide Tom Hanks with a companion...why should DHL/AHK worry about a few of their packages washing up on Pratas Reef...?

[triplegem]

I don"t think guys from this region will seriously consider joining except those from Indon and Philippines,definitely not Singaporeans or even Malaysians.. With the tax bracket, no retirement benefit,no travel benefits,no housing and transportation allowance, US60000-70000 is not much better than what we jet drivers are getting in this region. This is discounting the high cost of living in SIN. To maintain the same standard of living in SIN with that sort of pay is out of the question.

Perhaps the younger bachelors looking for better quality jet time
don't mind to bite the bullet for 3 years and move on. I was told for the 3 days interview in HK, candidates have to pay for their own passage and accomodation. Guess only serious guys will turn up afterall.

WHITE IS A BETTER COLOUR THAN BROWN:{

[Kaptin M]

I don"t think guys from this region will seriously consider joining except those from Indon and PhilippinesThat being the case, then this could be a GOOD thing for aviation, as it raises the remuneration levels of those who were previously at the bottom of the pyramid.

Whilst past accident records for Garuda and PAL leave a bit to be desired, at least the approach towards keeping various managments in check have been beyond reproach.
Hopefully a number of the gentlemen who lost their jobs at PAL a few years ago will get the opportunity to get back into the saddle again and let the eskirols suffer in purgatory.

btw triplegem, "WHITE IS A BETTER COLOUR THAN BROWN" - wtF*#"K is THAT supposed to mean??

[FatEric]

triplegem,

QF make you pay for the privelage also. Its not uncommon. DHL cant exactly pop you in one of thier aircraft can they.

[dragon501]

No I guess would be the answer (not being rude, just honest)

[BlueEagle]

From what I have read recently, on this forum, your best bet may well be to go for cadet entry to either Cathay or Dragonair, should you choose to search the archives of this forum you will find a wealth of information!;)

[Schrodingers Cat]

Any news of when the cockpit upgrade program is going to start.....time is getting short, and at 2 weeks per aircraft downtime theres not much time left before November......:ooh: