Touring West Coast US

[RichieC43]

Hi everyone,

Apologies for the number of questions I'm about to ask ;)

I'm seriously considering a 10 day or so flying tour of West coast US. Has anyone done this?

I'm talking specifically about the LA/San Diego type areas with a couple of nights stay in Vegas. If self flying proves impracticle we will drive but, I would prefer to tour by air.

So;
Where's a good place to operate out of as a home base?

What sort of hourly rate am I looking at wet?

What are the average hangerage/parking fees if I stay a couple of nights somewhere?

What's involved in transferring a UK (CAA not JAR) PPL to an FAA license?

Having never flown privately in the states, is it a straightforward transition or am I biting off a lot?

Thanks for any thoughts opinions etc from anyone who has looked into this sort of thing or done it before.

Regards

Rich

[Keef]

Hi! Yes, many have done it. I have, and know quite a few others. I'm off (with another PPRuNer) to do it again this year.

Home base - there are lots to choose from around that area, although I think you'd get more mileage if you toured and stayed at different places around the West.

Hourly rate depends heavily on the aircraft type. A 152 will be a tad cheaper than a Mooney Ovation, for example. My "first approximation" is that it's a bit less in dollars than I pay for the equivalent in the UK in pounds. But that can vary quite a bit. A couple of years ago, I paid about $80 for an IFR-equipped PA28R in California.

You wouldn't get overnight hangarage in many places. Tiedowns are what you'd expect. Cost is minimal in most cases, and zero in many.

For UK PPL to FAA PPL - there are lots of threads on here already. There was one in the "stickies" at the top of the forum, unless it's disappeared in the last day or so. Do a search for FAA PPL and you'll find several.

Private flying in the USA is the joy that it ought to be in Europe.

If you browse back through the threads on this forum, you'll find lots about flying in the USA.

[RichieC43]

Been having another little search and there seems to be a lot of favour with flying out of Las Vegas.

Which times of the year are advisable to minimise the Density Altitude problems?

Am I better off flying out of LA/San Diego or Las Vegas?

Id very much like to see the Grand Canyon and surrounding sights, but it sounds as though the restrictions around it can be a bit of a handful.

Finally, Im assuming a 152 two up is pretty much out of the question including overnight luggage up in AZ ?

Thanks for any snippets

Rgds

Rich

[DubTrub]

Rich:

I have flown in the Grand Canyon/Arizona/Utah area (in the depths of winter) in a 152, 2 up + baggage. I have to admit I wouldn't like to try it in the summer because of a) density altitude and b) heat turbulence.

I flew out of Deer Valley Airport, Phoenix, to Sedona, and across to Las Vegas, to LA.

On another occasion I rented a 150 at Santa Paula, a nice GA field in the LA area.

Don't forget that some of the distances are quite vast, I would have a good look at a map.

But it is by far the best way to view the scenery.

[WestWind1950]

my homebase when in California is at Gillespie Field, just east of San Diego.. check this homepage: .http://www.gsfc.com ... that could give you some info about prices... nice folk there, too

As has already been said, watch out for the distances! And also, some regulations are a bit different. You'll have to get yourself checked out... if your trip is short, then you may not have the time you need.

good luck!
WestyWind

[knobbygb]

I haven't done what you're thinking of yet, but will be doing very soon and have spent the last 3 months asking the same questions, revising the FAA rules and studing charts etc. of the area.

I'd agree with everything said so far. To answer a couple of the points not yet covered:

Are you biting off more than you can chew? I wouldn't have thought so. Sure, things are done differently over there - particularly the RT and airspace, but no self respecting renter will let you take the a/c away for 10 days unless they're sure you're up to speed. You are doing the right thing by asking all the right questions, so you should be OK. Don't be afraid to scale down your trip if you think it might be too much though - you can just do a couple of days then fly more next time you visit, ehrn you're more confident. My first trip was 10 hours of local flying over 5 days in florida. It's only now that I feel confident enough to go away from base for several days.

Grand Canyon. I too was put off flying the canyon because I'd heard it was 'difficult'. I must say having asked advice and studied the charts it seems pretty straightforward. I'd particularly advise you to look at this site (http://www.viewing.com/arizona/canyon/canyon.htm) which contains a Grand Canyon report written by another PPRuNer - thanks again David :ok: I suspect the 'difficult' reputation comes about because what American pilots consider difficult airspace is probably a lot easier than what we have to put up with over here - especially in the SE of England.

Density altitude. I'm going at the end of February and don't expect the temperature to be much above the mid 60's in southern Arizona and much cooler at higher altitudes. This is the ideal time of the year for weather/temperature. I would have thought if you were sticking mainly to California, summer would also be OK. I wouldn't like to spend 3 or 4 hours in an un-airconditioned Cessna at 110 Degrees which is what it can be in Phoenix in mid-summer.

Just one other note about you trip length. 2 or 3 of the most popular places to rent (see other threads for details) have limitations on away-from-base touring. One in LA does not allow overnight trips at all (unless you have an IR), the one I'm flying from in Phoenix only allows 3 days/2 nights unless you're a regular. Just a thought you should take into account before committing to anywhere.

Whatever happens I'm sure it'll be some of the most enjoying flying you've ever done. Please PM me if you wan't to chat more about it or to let me know how your trip goes.

[RichieC43]

Thanks knobbygb,

Im starting to think that a couple of days away from home will be more than adequate in one go for a first time.

Ill investigate any restrictions linked to that also.

I guess I might look at a trip to a local Grand Canyon airport rather than transitting over it as Ive heard the sunrise there (as per David's site) are awesome.

Thanks again, I might well be in touch with you nearer the time.

PS When are you heading state side?

Rgds
Rich

Forgot to ask,

What is recommended reading material for background knowledge prior to a trip?


Thanks


Rich

[knobbygb]

What is recommended reading material for background knowledge prior to a trip?
PPRuNE! Seriously, just about everything that can be said about what you're planning has been said here already if you look.

Also, get a copy of the local charts and the AFD (Airport and Facilities Directory) if you can. Out of date ones will do at this stage.

Read up on the FAR's online, particualrly part 91. The official ones are here (http://www.access.gpo.gov/nara/cfr/cfrhtml_00/Title_14/14cfr91_00.html) but there are various plain English translations available online.

Other great websites are:

www.swaviator.com (loads of articles about days out by a/c in thw SW USA)
www.airnav.com (for airfield info)
www.avweb.com (for general info on GA stateside)

[englishal]

I base myself at Long Beach when flying in the W USA. Its handy, pretty central, good aircraft available from a number of sources. I've heard that A/C rental from Vegas is much more expensive....from a Vegas resident who was doing his CPL in California as it was much cheaper.

Tons of good places to go, Santa Paula, as mentioned is a cool little field, with a good restaraunt there :D

EA

[Aim Far]

Vegas, southern Utah, Monument Valley, Sedona and the Grand Canyon will keep you busy for 4 or 5 days. Density altitude isn't really an issue even in summer because the runways are so long (not that you shouldn't do the checks and take-off procedures though). The distances are OK but only if you can get the plane to take away for a few days - I would not like to be doing day trips out and back in the Vegas area as you will be flying all day.

If you are likely to get restricted to day trips, I would go to California. Specifically Gillespie in San Diego.

If you want some ideas, see my trip report at the end of this thread

http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=87326

and for pictures, http://liftfan.tripod.com/ (not my site but we ended up going many of the same places)

[RichieC43]

Thanks Aim Far

Great report, Ill check it out.

I reckon a rental car is probably the way to do Vegas and the Canyon area this time and get some day trips out of Gillespie or Motgomery.

Thanks again

Rich

[samson.]

As you seem to be interested in flying from San Diego, my opinion (having flown from both) is that Montgomery is incredibly busy (long queues for departure) while Gillespie is not. I found Gillespie a good place to be based (although El Cajon, the nearest town, isn't all that interesting) - a car is essential.

Samson.

[RichieC43]

Thanks Samson, Ill bear that in mind.

How far from downtown San Diego are they both?

Thanks

Rich

[DubTrub]

Richie, however you end up deciding to go (air or ground), something like 75% of US National Parks and Sites of Interest are within 8 hours drive of Las Vegas. (LAS is cheap to get to too!)

Have a good time, and report back!

[WestWind1950]

hi samson,

(although El Cajon, the nearest town, isn't all that interesting) -

I grew up and went to school in El Cajon... my family still lives there and I'm off to visit them next week. But I must agree with you, El Cajon isn't very interesting... but it's a good starting place :p

Westy

P.S. I sent a PN to Westcoast suggesting we do a mini-bash over there while I'm visiting (Jan 21 to Feb 11)... anyone else in San Diego then??

[RichieC43]

Evening all,

Been reading a few threads around the WWW about flying in the US.

What is the minimum requirement a PPL holder needs to file an IFR flight plan, is it an IR or a UK IMC?

An IFR flight plan just seems to make things a great deal easier in terms of handoffs to agencies etc.


Any thoughts appreciated

Rgds

Rich

[Chilli Monster]

To fly IFR in the U.S you need a U.S IR attached to your U.S licence, whether it be a 'standalone' licence or one issued on the basis of your U.K PPL

[RichieC43]

And am I right in thinking a UK IMC is there abouts to obtain a US IR?

Thanks again

Rich

[Chilli Monster]

NO

With a US IR the CAA will give you an IMC.

With an IMC the FAA will count that as training towards your U.S IR but it's still necessary to do the various 'set' exercises as laid down in 14 CFR 61, training as required to get you to test standard, flight test, written exam and oral exam. On its own in the U.S the IMC counts for nothing, so can't be used (either there or in any other country of course - it being a national rating only).

[RichieC43]

Understood Chilli Monster,

Thanks

Rich

[Aim Far]

An IFR flight plan just seems to make things a great deal easier in terms of handoffs to agencies etc.

I wouldn't worry about handoffs. If you get VFR flight following you will usually get handed off automatically - having to freecall will come as a shock when you get back though.

[RichieC43]

Are there any good FAQ type sites about comms in the US as Unicom etc is all new to me.

Thanks

Rgds

Rich

[david viewing]

I reccomend a little book called "VFR Radio Proceedures in the USA" which you can get from Transair and doubtless other pilot shops.

[RichieC43]

David Viewing

Thanks, Ill check that out.

Im still trawling around for some useful sites in the mean time.

Rgds

Rich

[FWA NATCA]

Aim Far,

You are incorrect about VFR aircraft being automatically handed off to subsequent facilities. The VFR pilot who is receiving Radar flight following needs to request hand offs to the next facility, the best way to receive this service is to request, "VFR Flight Following to what ever you destination is".

Sometimes VFR handoffs can not be accomplished due to Radar limitations, and or controller workload. More often than not, the problem is that the pilot is not at an altitude where the next facility can radar identify them, so a handoff can not be accomplished.

Mike
NATCA FWA

[Aim Far]

Mike

You may be right and maybe it depends on the area.

All I can say is that every time I got flight following on the west coast, I asked for flight following to a particular place and got handed off from one controller to the next all the way and didn't have to request it. I also got offered clearances for controlled airspace on a number of occasions before I had requested them. The only request was sometimes at the end of the flight when requesting the last approach controller for permission to change frequency to unicom of the destination.

[englishal]

before I had requested them.
That is the really great thing about VFR flight following in the US. In the UK we're expected to negotiate any Class D clearances en-route, and you may or may not get them. With flight following you are automatically cleared through any Class C airspace, if for some reason they don't want you in there, then they'll issue vectors to help you avoid it, or hand you off to the controlling tower. If for some reason there is a radar blind spot, they can often hand you off to the next facility, and tell you something like "Radar services terminated, contact Palm Springs Approach once through the pass" or along those lines.

Last time I was over, I did a trip from Long Beach to vegas and my initial call was something like "VFR flight following to Las Vegas at 5500 initially, climbing to 7500 once clear of the LA Class B airspace".....to which the controller responded "NXYZ is cleared into the LA Class B airspace, climb and maintain 7500" which I thought was very kind of him.

Cheers
EA:D

[FWA NATCA]

Aim Far,

My facility has three enroute facilities that over lies our airspace, and five approach controls around us. Due to computer limitations we can't auto handoff an aircraft without putting a VFR flight plan into the NAS to two of the centers and two of the approach controls.

Unless I'm extremely busy, I don't mind at all providing VFR flight following and if requested providing a VFR handoff to the next facility. The key to continued flight following is that the next facility is willing to accept the handoff.

As for pratice approaches, if I know that this will be your last approach, I will terminate your VFR flight following at the FAF so that you have ample time to switch frequencies to the CTAF.

Mike
NATCA FWA