IFR flight plans at low-ish levels

[tmmorris]

I'm planning a trip to Scotland in April, and it seems to me that my safety would be considerably enhanced by

(a) flying IFR (I have an IMCR)
(b) filing a flight plan

but I've never filed an IFR flight plan on paper, and don't really know how it's done. I've done a VFR one. I can get an IFR departure from my home field (Kidlington), then go beacon to beacon, but this would entail for example going through parts of E. Midlands CTA (class D). (The plan is to end up at Kirknewton, weather permitting, but I'd probably file for Edinburgh and then cancel IFR when close to Kirknewton if the weather looked promising.)

If I file the flight plan DCT MORTN DCT DTY DCT POL... for example, would East Midlands then have the details already? What would the various ATC units actually have in front of them, if anything?

Alternatively I could file VFR, but I might then have to go IFR en-route - does that then cause my VFR flight plan to be ditched?

Tim

[vintage ATCO]

Flying off-airways the filing of a FPL, either IFR or VFR, will only achieve the object of informing your destination (if they are able to receive it) of your intention to fly there and the departure time when you leave, if someone is able to input a DEP message. En-route aerodromes are not included in the addressing and if added manually would probably not do anything with the information (those with auto data processing would probably not see it).

However, don't let me put you off filing because the first reason can be important.


VA

[tmmorris]

Thanks VA, rather what I had suspected.

Presumably therefore the easiest thing to do is to file VFR, then go IFR en-route if necessary, and ask for IFR zone transits on the way as and when they are needed. I'd only do that if necessary, but obviously don't plan to do unnecessary scud-running, especially in a nicely equipped new 172.

Tim

[bpilatus]

How much does your plane weigh?

[Crashondeck]

Excuse my potential ingnorance, but I thought that an IMC rating allowed you to get out of jail free rather than offer IFR privillages?

As a professional IFR pilot, I would go VFR every time happy in the knowledge that I had the IMC option. IFR is a pain as controllers will be hasselling you about your terrain clearance if you are low level and will always be offering traffic avoidance. Remember that as you travel north you will come across increasing amounts of fast jet traffic and keeping IF separation will be a nightmare. You may find that you are forced up into icing.

Besides you will be travelling over some of Britain's best views and to miss then would be a shame.

Safe flying and enjoy Scotland. And if you get a chance do the west coast (if the weather is kind) Oban is worth a visit and Stornoway makes a good logbook entry (they're friendly too!).

COD

[FlyingForFun]

Crashondeck,I thought that an IMC rating allowed you to get out of jail free rather than offer IFR privillagesNo. The IMC Rating allows you to fly IFR in Class D and lower airspace, in IMC. It allows you to fly approaches, and has recommended minima which are considerably higher than for an Instrument Rated pilot.

It is true that many pilots choose to use the IMC rating as a "get out of jail free" rating for one reason or another. But as long as you are sufficiently current and have a suitably equipped aircraft (probably the two biggest obstacles), there is no reason not to plan, and fly, IFR.IFR is a pain as controllers will be hasselling you about your terrain clearance if you are low level Why would you be that low? If you're IFR, you can (in fact, must) get high enough not to worry about terrain. If you can't do that without entering icing conditions, then that's a good reason to stay on the ground. And anyway, in Class G airspace, terrain clearance is not the controller's responsibility - you don't even need to be talking to a controller, in fact, although it would be silly not to get a radar service if one is available.

Tmmorris - as an IMC-rated pilot who hasn't yet used the rating in anger (not because I won't, but because my regular aircraft isn't suitable and it's rare that having IMC, a suitable aircraft and suitable currency all coincide!), I'd be very interested to hear how your trip goes!

FFF
--------------

[owenlars]

I agree with Crashondeck. If you file IFR outside controlled airspace you will need to behave almost exactly as you would in a VFR flight. You will need to negotiate clearances en route avoid danger and prohibited areas and maintain IFR minimum altitude (i.e 1000 feet above the highest point within 5 miles which is pretty high across the Pennines and possibly in cloud). If you are in IMC the workload will be great and you will miss the views.

Having an IR I tend to file airways as I believe it is safer and easier and by being in an airway all the stuff above is automatically done for you, (until of course you are vectored direct to somewhere, so you still need to keep your wits about you.).

With an IMC I would definitely do the trip VFR.

Whatever you decide have a great trip.

[tmmorris]

Thanks all for advice - looks like filing VFR with the option to go IFR if necessary is the best bet. I quite agree about the views, which should be spectacular.

I do try hard to remain in the category of IMC rated pilots who stay current and can actually fly IFR safely - I don't think treating it as a get out of jail free card is at all safe, despite what the CAA recommends - that's a recipe for becoming rusty; then when you really need it, you don't have the skills required to execute a safe approach. It's so easy to get out of practice - I did a couple of practice ILS the other day and was appalled by how hard I found the first one (the second was better) after only a few months - and in those months I've done several bits of real IMC.

The problem is that it can be so expensive in terms of approach fees to stay current. Full marks to Gloucester - there if you land and pay a landing fee, they don't charge for the IAP, so I did a SRA there followed by a well-earned cup of tea, which was great. And I can do NDB approaches till the cows come home at Oxford, as I'm based there. But to do an ILS I have to go to Coventry, Cranfield or Filton, none of which is cheap.

Tim

[Fly Stimulator]

tmmorris,

I do try hard to remain in the category of IMC rated pilots who stay current and can actually fly IFR safely - I don't think treating it as a get out of jail free card is at all safe, despite what the CAA recommends - that's a recipe for becoming rusty;

I quite agree.

If you're in the area then Calais is an excellent place for reasonably priced ILS approaches. All you pay is the 7 Euro landing fee, and you can get a nice lunch in the restaurant there too.

[witchdoctor]

tmm

If you're based at Kidlington, why not pop in and have a chat to some of the studes there (FI's probably less inclined to help without large wads of cash, although there are some absolutely splendid individuals there - Ian King, take a bow:ok: ).

As a former paying inmate at the assylum, I'm sure many of them would be only to happy to help, as it is a great help to your own understanding of things to be able to explain it to another. It would also be a rare treat to help plan a flight further away than East Midlands.:}

Seriously though, IFR flight plans are a doddle once you know how it's done, and Phil or Alan on the ops desk (assuming they are still there) have always been tremendously helpful, especially as Phil must have seen more FP's than I've had hot dinners, including so many incorrect efforts from studes.

However, as many others have already said, to avoid going VFR would be to avoid some amazing scenery. For the best of it, route up west of the Pennines via the Manchester low-level corridor (always an interesting experience!:ooh: ), and via Carlisle (my home base). The west coast of Scotland from the air is absolutely stunning - I doubt you will find more amazing scenery anywhere else in the UK. IFR can be a lot of hard work too, but it is always nice to practice these things.

Whatever you do, I hope you enjoy it.:ok:

[Chilli Monster]

But to do an ILS I have to go to Coventry, Cranfield or Filton, none of which is cheap.

EGTG £6.50 an approach, £13 (two approaches) minimum charge for your average single.

Seems reasonable to me ;)

[bookworm]

Thanks all for advice - looks like filing VFR with the option to go IFR if necessary is the best bet. I quite agree about the views, which should be spectacular.

IFR outside controlled airspace simply means staying 1000 ft above obstacles within 5 miles and flying quadrantal levels. To me, that sound like a good idea whatever the weather. Nothing forces you to accept a radar advisory service, and nothing forces you to miss the view. So plan the flight as IFR, unless that unduly constrains your route because of navigational limitations.

[cblinton@blueyonder.]

I still cant get my head round certain issues with flying in IMC in a single engined aircraft with cloud below the highest terrain.

I hear pilots say "you must be mad crossing the channel in a sep without a liferaft" yet they are quite happy to fly over the sort of terrain in Scotland in thick IMC!!!

Which is worse?

Engine failure over water?

OR

Engine failure over mountains that are covered in cloud?

:confused: