Can an FAA IR be converted to a UK IMC rating?

[cambioso]

Has anyone any experience of the UK CAA granting UK IMC rating privileges to a UK PPL holder who has a valid FAA/IR ?
Also...Can the holder of a valid UK multi-crew IR apply for an IMC rating for his PPL?
I bet somebody out there knows !!??

[Flyin'Dutch']

C,

Yes it can.

If you look here (http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/175/Lasors_Section_E.pdf) you can find chapter and verse.

Can not see that it makes a distinction between multi-crew and single pilot IRs for the validation of an IMC so deduct from this that this is not an issue, but the definite answer will have to be from the horse's mouth!

FD

[englishal]

Yep,

I have an IMC based on an FAA IR. As an IR holder you're excempt from all gound exams, all flight training and also the skills test. Costs you £64 quid.

To renew the IMC rating after 24 months you can either do a skills test with a CAA examiner, or undergo and log an FAA Instrument Proficiency Check with an FAA Instructor. Then the CAA will charge you £64 and re-issue the IMC rating for a further 24 months.

Cheers
EA:D

[fly2fly]

I hold a FAA-CPL-IR, can I have a validation for a JAA PPL-IR?
or maybe a CAA-PPL-IMC-Night ????

What can I get without passing a flight test??? and how? (eventually where??)

Thanks guys...

[Flyin'Dutch']

If you have a JAR or CAA licence you can get an IMC rating added to that on the basis of your FAA IR.

If you don't have a PPL and want one you will have to do a test (and I assume some training?)

But why bother?

With an FAA PPL/CPL IR you can fly a G reg aeroplane anywhere and use the IR for IMC purposes in UK airspace.

FD

[IO540]

FD

With an FAA PPL/IR you can fly a G-reg in UK airspace but not outside the UK.

[fly2fly]

:ooh: REALLY ?????!

I'm impressed! and especially I learned something today!

WITH A FAA CPL-IR, I can fly a "G" aircraft with a PPL-IMC privileges!!!

Do you know if it's the same in France???

[BEagle]

There are so many errors in this thread that it's difficult to know where to start..

1. Any UK (NOT JAA) ATPL or CPL includes automatic IMC privileges.

2. You can only add an IMC rating to a UK PPL/BCPL or CAA-issued JAA licence. You can't add it to a FAA licence.

3. For further information, see http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/175/Lasors_Section_E.pdf

[2Donkeys]

OK I'll deal with a couple more.

IO540.

An FAA PPL is deemed to be a licence rendered valid under the ANO, and as such entitles the holder without formality to fly a G registered aircraft wherever they like. It may not be flown for hire or reward, and any instrument privileges may only be exercised outside controlled airspace.

Since the CAA is the authority on who may fly a G-registered aircraft, these permissions continue to be valid outside UK airspace.

Flying Dutch

An FAA PPL/CPL IR may not use his IR for IMC purposes in any form of controlled airspace in the UK. The privileges are therefore a tad less than the IMC rating holder who can fly under IFR in IMC in Class D airspace. As you write though, the FAA IR holder can apply to have an IMC rating issued (if he has a UK licence to issue it onto), and he may then exercise the full IMC rating privileges whether in an N or G reg aircraft.

fly2fly

France does not have the same liberal approach to flight in IMC as we do in the UK. Whilst in principle, an FAA IR holder can fly a G-reg aircraft outside controlled airspace under IFR in France, this is not a meaningful privilege since the French IFR system is entirely oriented around conventional IFR "airways" flights (for want of a better description). Similarly, the extensive use of class E airspace (controlled for IFR flights), makes remaining outside controlled airspace for any kind of cross country IFR flight a practical impossibility.

[IO540]

2D

Thank you for stating this categorically. I had heard of the automatic validation before but to date have never seen an authoritative source for it.

There are two parts to this: the CAA and the FAA.

The CAA refuses the reply on the subject; most I have been able to get out of them is that one can fly an N-reg in the UK with UK/JAR licenses/ratings without any loss of privileges provided the FAA have no conflicting requirements and the latter I have not been able to verify... but that's not the same thing at all.

In light if this, why do we have the NPPL (which has been taken up mostly by people unable to get the CAA Class 2 medical) when people can get the FAA PPL and the really easy FAA Class 3 medical...and fly a G-reg worldwide?? In pushing for the NPPL, has the flight training industry overlooked something?

[2Donkeys]

I'm flattered and a little worried at the thought of being authoritative :ooh:

For the record though, the official reference which renders valid (inter alia) FAA licences without formality, is ANO Article 21 4(a). You'll note the lack of geographical restriction, and the two restrictions relating to hire-and-reward, and IFR flight. As you say there is nothing in the FARs which restricts an FAA certificate holder with respect to the registry he may fly under.


Your last point relating to the NPPL is a really good one, and funnily enough, I was chatting about this very same point with a friend recently. He has developed a medical condition which is putting into question his ability to hold an unrestricted JAA PPL. As a result, he is feeling forced down the NPPL line, with its attendant restrictions.

It would appear though, that his medical condition is not limiting as far as the issue of an FAA Class 3 medical is concerned. Since the Class 3 is the normal FAA medical for a PPL holder, the friend concerned is likely now to complete the ground exam and checkride to have an FAA PPL issued.

Since it is rendered valid in the UK, he will effectively enjoy the freedom to do exactly what he could do previously, by having removed himself from the regulatory influence of the CAA.

Strange how these loopholes develop isn't it? I think they are a function of the relatively few people that have really spent any time trying to understand the different regulatory frameworks.


2D

[englishal]

An FAA PPL/CPL IR may not use his IR for IMC purposes in any form of controlled airspace in the UK
This seems to be a throwback from the "old" CAA PPL and IMC rating, which basically specified that you couldn't fly "in controlled airspace". Seems to be several deffinitions of CAS in the UK, CAS with regard to IFR flight in airways, and CAS when talking about Class D etc. I believe that before Class D etc. existed , that this chunk of airspace was not considered Controlled in the same manner as it is now.

The CAA website used to have a FAQ stating that an ICAO IR was entitled to the same privileges as a UK IMC holder, however this was removed, and when I wrote to the CAA to get them to clarify, they admitted that this was not true. As mentioned, you can only exercise the privileges outside CAS, but you may have the IMC issued to a JAA or CAA PPL.....

EA:D

[2Donkeys]

I believe that before Class D etc. existed , that this chunk of airspace was not considered Controlled in the same manner as it is now.

Not quite right. Before the class A-G system came in, most of the zones we now think of as class D were known as Special Rules Zones (SRZ). SRZs themselves fell into two categories, A and B, which amongst other things determined whether or not an IMC-rating holder could fly in them on an IFR clearance.

With the arrival of the A-G classification and the decision to allow IMC rating holders to fly in class D airspace under IFR, things got less rather than more restrictive.

Zones like Luton were combined Special Rules Zones and Control Zones. No IFR transits at all for IMC-rating holders.

Strange to cast your mind back.