Home built simulators

[bizflyer]

I was watching discovery wings the other night and there was a 1hr special on people who had built their own full size sims at home, as someone with a healthy interest in aviation I was amazed at the levels of sophistication these guys had engineered into their spare rooms - one had what looked like a full 767 cockpit, granted non-motion, but otherwise complete running off of a bank of PC's connected to the controls and instruments through some kind of special circuit card - the name for which I have forgotten. I found the level of home built technology amazing but was somewhat disturbed by their desire to don uniforms and talk to an imaginary ATC through a mike system etc.. I just wondered how common this hoby is, are there many people out there who go to these kinds of lengths to fulfill boy hood dreams? Has anyone who started off down this particular hobby road ever actually made it into the real thing?

[PCav8or]

Have a look at this URL (home built 744 sim)

http://www.hyway.com.au/747/LatestPictures/747L.htm

[bizflyer]

Well what can I say? These guys make the one's I saw on TV look like amateurs (and the ones I saw were astonishing in terms of complexity for home builds). It really is incredible what people are capable of. I congratulate their innovation and determination to get things this real, it certainly looks very authentic to my non-pro eye. I still wonder a little just how healthy taking a 'hobby' to this kind of level might be, but then why not? Good luck to them.

[AeroSpark]

and talk to an imaginary ATC through a mike system

Its not imaginary, check out http://www.vatsim.net/

[Dop]

I have to admit when I see something like that I ask myself why they didn't just learn to fly for real instead. It would probably be cheaper!

[bizflyer]

Point taken about the ATC, it's not imaginary but simulated - so that's Ok then. Honestly I'm not taking the p*#s but -

Just wonder what the cost is of 1 home built 744 sim vs 1 ex arizona/calif retired 747, why not just buy a real one and a field to put it in? The way values are these days there can't be that much between the two - especially given the lengths to which these home builders seem prepared to go to.

[Regis Potter]

As a BA 'Junior Jet Club' member in the 70's/80's, I recall that the club magazine contained an article about a member that had built a Trident 3 mock-up in the family garage. Leo Bud, the then president of the club went to visit & there was a photo of the two of them in it. The lad who built it had ambitions to fly & I always wondered how he faired.

I wonder if he was the same Max Kingsley-Jones who now writes for Flight International ?

[Crazy Pilot]

Well what can I say Guys; It’s a growing hobby and is taking off (pardon the pun) in the UK.

I myself have built a flight deck and it’s only from this that sparked me to learn to fly. I found that I learnt a whole load of things from simming and the home cockpit is a great tool to improve on MCC CRM style of skills.

But for me, with a family and work commitments, I don’t think I’ll ever be in a position to Fly ATPL so the best thing I have is a simulator, for most simmers, the goal of becoming a commercial pilot is unreachable, due to many issues, so they put the passion into something they can do on the same lines.

As for did any one become a pilot from simming. The answer to that question is YES. I know of people that are now flying for airlines in both the UK and US, whom started out on P.C based simulators.

Check out www.world-flight.org it’s as real as it gets for these guys.

The search on home built simulators can go on and on, your find those all over the world ranging from a basic set ups, to buying the front end of a 737.

You can set up a very nice fixed base simulator without spending too much. Trust me, I have done it.

Just my two pennies worth.
;)

[BigEndBob]

Regis Potter


You have triggered a memory cell from the 1970's.
I remember seeing an article published in a weekly magazine called "Speed and Power" about a young lad, about the same age as me, who had built a Trident 3 simulator.
I believe he wanted to fly for BEA ( or had it just become BA).
Often wondered what happened to him..
And same magazine ran a competition to win a Piper Cherokee sponsered by Martini. I wonder who won that!

Blimey that all takes me back......

[jote]

Even the cheap ones can be quite realistic, I am developing a helicopter simulator that is currently being tried at Coventry. Hopefully it will help the folks with instrument flying skills. In the course of development I have met quite a few who moved to the real thing after playing on the PC based simulators.

[Rupert S]

...isn't the whole point of a sim to fly for free or at least on th cheap??? why don't these people get a PPL, as fun as I'm sure these sims are.

[excrewingbod]

bizflyer,

Its a lot more popular than you think and there are a fair number of aviation professionals amongst the hobbyists.

Several companies out there have developed products aimed at the 'home-built' cockpit hobbyists, from fmc units, through to cockpit shells, to 'glass cockpit' software. Some of these companies also produce products for the commercial and military aviation training markets. Ironically quite a number of full flight sims are now powered by Linux running on PCs.

The cost of obtaining a real flightdeck section in the states is absolutely astronomic, you are talking 10's of thousands, for an empty shell. We are a bit more fortunate in the UK where it was, and maybe still is, to get a fairly decent flightdeck for under a grand. I paid £600 for a front end, approx 13ft, of a Bandit (EMB110), which included everything bar the instruments, a couple of years ago.

As Crazy Pilot states, there people out there who cannot, for whatever reason, obtain any sort of pilot's licence. One such project in the states, was created because the person's brother is disabled, yet has a love of aviation. These projects give a small insight into the world of commercial aviation.

Although I work for an airline, flying for a living does not appeal to me. I've seen first hand how unsettled life can be, getting up at odd hours of the day, flying the same routes day in, day out, spending a very serious amount of money for a licence, that may or may not get you a job.

I'd rather have a job with a salary that enables me to keep flying as a hobby. I'm also interested in the science of flight simulation, which is one of the reasons why I got into this hobby. I've been building these contraceptions since I was a teenager.

I do agree that 'dressing up' as a pilot is a little OTT, but each to their own, however the ATC network - VATSIM, does have real-world ATC people acting as controllers.

[IO540]

There is public domain software around which enables you to build a fully functional sim of almost anything you want. You have to interface your I/O devices to it. It's a big project but can be done. Nothing stops you building a full motion simulator but it is a few man-years :O

There is probably a way to do it with FS2004 also.

[GrantT]

why don't these people get a PPL, as fun as I'm sure these sims are.

Maybe they can't because of medical reasons, this is sadly the closest they can come to their dream.

Edit: Sorry, excrewingbod explained that in his post.

[Crazy Pilot]

Yes I agree dressing up is well OTT, but the programme in question, it was the fighter sim person that dressed up. I believe that was because he simulated high G by inflating the G suite. Many people have ask why I don’t put on the uniform, I say “I have not earned the right to were it”, and my work colleagues would take the p***.

I think it’s only a small number of simmer that would were the uniform, and if that rings their bell, good luck to them.

I see that some of you state” why not get a PPL?” well as already said sometimes the simmer can’t. In my case I did it in the end because the fellow simmers and pilots I meet after building the sim gave me to confidence to go out and do it, which before I did not think I had the skills needed. Lucky for me I was wrong, and have now been flying for three years and love every second.

Now my sim cost me less to build than it cost to learn to fly! and I was able to put it together over 5 years, the cost was spared out. To keep up the flying, cost too much as well, I had to stop flying for 2 months as I did not have the money, but I was able to get out on the simulator for free every day if I wished, just the cost of the electric. The other fun part, I am able to share it with like minded people, some of whome have helped improve it

So as you see there are many reasons why people build sims and not learn to fly. Just as a closing statement, I think I learnt most of my flying skills in the sim that helped me with the PPL, and if I had not of built the sim, I don’t think I would have gone for the PPL as I did not think I could.

If any of you are thinking, a sim is a good idea, I found that money was not the problem, it was time! something to think about. As Kevin Saker said on the programme “it’s a problem, for the wife”

[Rupert S]

someone here mentioned using linux for the system. With such a system, I think running the whole thing on windows would be a dire waste of computer power, to the extend that you would actually need more computers in the cluster that the whole thing works off. Linux makes far more efficient use of cpu power. You could save yourself a log of money by using linux.

[Crazy Pilot]

Yes Rupert, your right!

I know that a company called Flightdeck Technology are looking in to running simulator systems on Linux boxes, but I am not sure that programes like MSFS2004 would run.

Linux would make the whole system more stable and the best part, I think it's a free O/S

[CS-DNA]

There is already flight-simulation software that will run on Linux.
(Flight Gear (http://www.flightgear.org/)).
Flight Gear is open-source, so one can modify the software, and is
quite easy to interface with.

The problem is that most people who want a “home-simulator” want
something that is easy to install and run and has detailed graphics.

That's why most people use MSFS2002/2004, it has the graphics and it
is “easy” to install, but it only runs on windows operating systems.
Besides, the people who build these cockpits probably don't want to
lose time on yet another task, like learning a new operating system.

[High Wing Drifter]

What is the difference between those setups and an FNPT2 sim? They look to be pretty good setups for a spot IR training.

[Crazy Pilot]

They look to be pretty good setups for a spot IR training.

Most defiantly ;) and systems training for the glass cockpit. :cool:

[Rupert S]

I've just downloaded and tried out flight gear. It's a nice piece of software and if you do want the detailed graphics, you can add them yourself since it's open source. Ran very well on a PowerPC machine with Gentoo linux. Only problem is that it was a nightmare to set up the joystick but then doing things like that usually is difficult with Gentoo. Anyone else had a go?

[TheKentishFledgling]

If someone offered any person on this forum a full motion all singing all dancing 747 sim (or whatever), 99.9% of us would have major problems saying no.

Whatever type of real flying you're into, it'd be bloody good fun to play with for a bit :)

Crazy pilot - so what kind of set up do you have? Full instruments etc like you can see in the link someone posted up the thread?

tKF

[CS-DNA]

Rupert S,

With flightgear you have to deal with joysticks on two levels:

- The O/S. On Linux making sure you have the right modules loaded
and working, on Windows installing the joystick as normal.

- Flightgear itself, configuring the joysticks to command the
simulator. For this I recommend that you read the README.Joystick.html
file on the docs/ sub-directory on the flightgear main directory.

As for the graphics, there are quite a few things you can't get on
flightgear, as the developers are (rightly, I think) more interested
in developing the platform and not on the eye-candy to compete
with low-end commercial simulators.

Regards
CS-DNA

[Rupert S]

Thanks, CS, I've now sorted out the joy stick although some of the buttons don't work. I thinks this is due to the fact that I'm running gentoo on a brand new computer and compatability with the processor is still a little patchy.

[CS-DNA]

Rupert S,

To check if the joystick is working correctly use the js_demo program.
It allows you to check the name of the device and the order of axes
and buttons and is described on the README.Joystick.html file.
This program should be inside the bin/ directory below the flight-gear
main directory and the architecture subdirectory.

After checking it works correctly, check the data/Input/Joysticks
directories of flight-gear.
You may find a definition file for your joystick in XML which you can
edit it to your liking.
Afterwards check the joystick.xml file on the data/ subdir of flight-gear.
You can force the default device to point to the file you edited/created.

If you need a definition file for a CH Fighterstick USB just say so, as
I have built one from one of the definitions already present.

I hope this helps
CS-DNA

[Crazy Pilot]

Crazy pilot - so what kind of set up do you have? Full instruments etc like you can see in the link someone posted up the thread?

It started life as a 757, moved onto 767 and is now almost a 777. I am pulling most of it apart this year and adding new parts, panels, flight controls and electronics. It is in a bit of a state at the moment, but works never the less.

The avionics package is a program by Chris Brett of Flightdeck Technology, called JANS (jet avionics and navigation suite) which simulates the 777 style of systems and works in conjunction with MSFS. The full set of instruments are there, PFD,ND,EICAS and FMC.

Most of the parts were made by hand, with the help of some of my simming friends, and some parts were donated.

The old simulator can be viewed @ www.world-flight.org and as soon as I have finished the new one, I’ll let you know. Just drop me a line if you would like the details. I hope to have something finished by November and have 90% of the systems modelled.

[Papajohn]

http://www.avsim.com/project757/pics/latest5.html

Whats the point?

PJ

[GrantT]

It's called a hobby PJ. :rolleyes:

[excrewingbod]

Papajohn,

Its a pity you didn't read some further info on that particular website.

If you had, you may have noticed that the project is the creation of two brothers, one of whom has spina bifida. What they have managed to acheive, considering most of the items are scratch built, is pretty amazing.

All too often people in aviation are very quick to look down their noses at others, who for whatever reason, are not able to participate in the activities that we are able to.

[High Wing Drifter]

Quite so. What's more, who here would not leap at the chance to have a go!

[Fspilot]

Point taken about the ATC, it's not imaginary but simulated

Nope! Its real people somewhere else in the world giving you ATC.

VATSIM is as close as you can get to the real thing! And has encouraged me to go for my PPL which i will be starting this week!!

Cant wait!

Anyway its all about fun!