Pilot background checks

[Azimuth]

I've just received an e-mail which I find rather disturbing. I'm all for increased security at airports etc but this is going too far


Pilot Background Checks Find Toehold

Is the terrorist threat lower here . or does the TSA believe these checks are worthless ... or is someone actually standing up for our "freedoms" ... or maybe our pilot lobbying groups are just better than theirs? Whatever the case, it's Australia -- not the U.S. -- that will have all pilots submit to a background check by their Security Intelligence Organization prior to the issuance of photo licenses. Australia's new security measures for GA were announced a few weeks ago, but the Aussie government didn't immediately publicize that a pilot's privilege of being fingerprinted and having his or her closets searched for skeletons would cost those pilots $200 each, and recur every two years. Here in the U.S., an estimated $1 billion a week to support elevated security has not so directly been passed on to GA. We're not complaining. And while we can imagine what U.S. alphabet groups would have to say about such a proposal, the Aussies seem to accept their charge without a whimper. AVweb
's cursory search of Australian pilot and aviation group Web sites could find nary a disparaging word about the new tax, but maybe we weren't looking in the right places. The new annual $100 tab is not the only added cost for GA, however. The government is also ordering extra anti-theft measures for GA aircraft. Although the measures will be "determined by the aircraft operators as appropriate," according to the new regulations, some suggestions include prop locks, door locks and securing hangars. Government inspectors will be doing random security checks, although no penalties are mentioned for non-compliance. Sport license holders and sport aircraft are exempt.

Please pass this email onto others within the Australian GA Community, making them aware of the above issue that will effect us all.


What does everyone think? I'm thinking revenue raising.

[Jet_A_Knight]

Pretty dumb considering you can walk onto a regional airliner with all sorts of concealed weapons at just about any regional airport across Australia unmolested.

Also, what about people who already hold an ASIC card and have already gone through the AFP background check?

By the way, the check doesn't cost anywhere near $200.

[On Reserves]

Jet A,

Yes it does cost $200... here is the link:

http://www.dotars.gov.au/transsec/fact_sheet6.aspx

Not too happy about being slugged again :rolleyes:

On Reserves

[OzExpat]

persons who might pose a threat to aviation gaining access to aircraft through legitimate means.
Hmmm... yes, I've flown with a few like that... :}

[compressor stall]

A few issues...

1. What about those of us who have done the checks before?
2. Is this $200 fee biennial?
3. Will AOPA bat for pilots?

CS

[Ralph the Bong]

$200?? That's funny. The security check at QF costs $40. This is a blatent rort. More pigs with snouts in trough methinks:suspect:

[poteroo]

This has to be one Great Practical Joke?

As J-A-K said in an earlier post - there is no security for regional RPT at these airports. At ours, you could walk on board with anything in your cabin bags.

What's worse here is that an 'illegal' could jump ship from one of the several bulk grain carriers here in port each week, hire a taxi to the airport, and get on board the F50 as a standby - all without anyone ever having seen them before.

The gates to the RPT tarmac area are unlocked and totally unsecure, so if anyone chose not to buy a ticket, they could just wander over to the F50, and board by force.

If you wanted to drive onto the main tarmac area it's very simple - just go past the GA hangars, and proceed straight ahead. This makes it much simpler to park the truck alongside the F50, or the fuel pumps, or the parked charter turbines!!

And they want pilots to be security checked!? Why bother, when the whole airport is open to the general public?

Of course, we owners keep our hangars locked, mainly to discourage theft of tools, parts, and radio gear out of aircraft. If anyone seriously wanted to get into a hangar, all it takes is an electric drill, and you'd have the tech screws out of a panel of GI in 10 secs flat!

We pilots and owners the ones at greatest risk with the current do-nothing system of security at regional airports.

Until this is fixed, what's the point of targetting pilots and owners with a quite misguided, typically bureaucratic, numbskull security clampdown?

happy days,

[Jet_A_Knight]

On Reserve - I know what DOTARS are charging, but to get an AFP backkgound check and ASIC card does not cost $200.

Therein lies the 'jab'. And every 2 years at that.

[Ramboflyer 1]

We should all stick together on this one and refuse bluntly to any of it .
Why dont they check each passenger that buys a ticket and put a 200 dollar tax on the ticket .
Nobody should do this check lets ground Australia it almost worked in 89.

[the wizard of auz]

And if I decide to fly a unregistered aircraft whithout a licence and fill it with explosives and then do some grief somewhere with it, how is this bull**** going to help air safety?????????

What a load of Bolloks!!!!!! If this thing happens I'm afraid I will be flying about the country without a license, as this is an absolute farce and I refuse to be part of it!!!!!!!!!!!!... :mad:

I know you CASA bods are reading these forums (looking for an easy kill!!!) so you better take note of this.... And you wonder why people go out and break rules and regs. this is just another push to get rid of pilots and GA. It helps no one other than you gov bods that really don't have a clue.


BLOODY DISGUSTING!!!!

[Azimuth]

It's not so much the money that bothers me, it's more the fact that the government wants to have access to all my personal details ie fingerprints.


Surely a truck filled with explosives would create more damage than a C-152. Why not background check and fingerprint all truck drivers as well? And while their at it they might as well do the same for all car drivers.

I'm starting to get the feeling we don't live in a free country anymore
:yuk:

[Sheep Guts]

So what about us expats pilot around the world how do we get a security check done. Do we have to return to Australia before July1?

[Disco Stu]

As everybody that has posted thus far has so clearly described, security in the aviation sense in Oz is a complete farce. The regional airport situation is a classic as is the Goon Show at our capital city airports.

I can't take a pair of nail clippers into the cabin but I can take my pen!. Thirty years or so ago the Australian Public (thru the Government of the time) taught me how to kill somebody with my pen:suspect: , just imagine the mess I could make of you with a nail clipper:eek:

This licence thing is purely a bureaucratic kneejerk reaction and it just demonstrates how out of touch these people are. Only recently CASA went through the process of re-issuing our licences and medical certificates to comply with the ICAO requirements. There has not been any further change to those (ICAO) document requirements. Let us also not forget the headlong rush to "harmonise" with ICAO either.

I am sure we (aviators and LAME's) will try to reason and rationalise with these 'people' , however I fear that in the end some sort of civil disobedience will have to take place. If as I believe it will come to that, then it will have my support.

Disco Stu

:ok:

[Deaf]

This is b*lls**

It can be assumed that this check will be

Criminal - As per the form filled in - computer check
Scorpions - NAK (nothing adverse known) - computer check
Photo - as per DL or passport

Not $200

So maybe Fedpol should investigate the people who recommended this and who they recommended to do it for corrupt practices.

[Rich-Fine-Green]

Time for all Pilots to stick together for once.

Refuse to pay the $200.

If the Govt. wants a security check for political reasons, fine. They pay for it.

As Azimuth siad: Why not check Truckies as well?.

This is something for AOPA to run with.

C'mon AOPA, you want to keep my membership and attract others, put some runs on the board and start a campaign of non-compliance.

[Mixture Rich]

I believe that AUF Licence holders will NOT be subject to this check.
Correct me if I'm wrong but a Gazelle can either be registered as a sport aircraft or be VH registered. I am sure there are others also.
So, I pays me 200 bucks, gets me new licence with photo appended and walk out to me VH reg Gazelle accompanied by my AUF colleague who walks to his non VH registered Gazelle parked next to mine.
The only difference between us is that he has 200 bucks in his pocket to buy/ build a bomb.
Why am I a potential terrorist and he is not?
I was alerted to this by the yanks, not AOPA here. The yanks cannot believe we are letting it get through.
MR:mad:

[ugly]

Rather than divide the aviation community over GA v AUF paying for a security check we should be drawing a comparison between a C152 full of explosive and a delivery van. Which would cause the most damage? Why aren't all drivers undergoing security checks?

If we dwell on the exemption of sports aviation the reaction from the govt is likely to be 'Oh.. missed them. We'll charge them too'

[Mixture Rich]

Hmmmm. I could say, well why shouldn't they be charged! But I wont. What I was trying to point out was the stupidity of the Govt thinking that sports aviation can do no harm. I'm sure they only reason they have not been captured is that they do not come under the influence of CASA. I am ceratin if they could find a way to slug them they would.
Having said that, I agree entirely with your point. But where does it end? Do we test bus, truck, train and taxi drivers? What about the bloke who drives the Manly Ferry? If you say yes then we are going to end up in a police state are we not.

What's a police check going to find on your kids if they fly or my 16 year old who does fly? ****** all. It is all political claptrap, as I'm sure you agree. The frustrating thing is we are virtually powerless to do anything. The public will think it's a great idea. How liitle they really know!
MR

[ReadMyACARS]

It really does make me wonder exatly what I get for my tax contributuion these days.

The whole issue of security that has been foisted on the country has been a joke, the 'Be Alert' fridge magnet campaign, the constant political "I'm stronger than you are on national security" by both sides of politics and the rather shamless campaign, again by both sides of poitics to see who could show the most sympathy after Bali Bombing, have, in my opinion, done absolutley bu**er all for actually securing the nation.

As a nation we have let our political leaders take us down the garden path, with a "Trust Us, were the government" approach.

If the government wants national security, and especially if the government wants to make it an election issue to prove thay are doing something, they should use consolidate revenue, i.e. tax, to pay for it.

At the very, very least, the government MUST explain why it considers pilots a security risk. The brief comments on the websit tell us were up for $200 but can't explain why.

The government only seems to say "national security" to bring in some uselsss user pays scheme and Australians gulibly fall for it.

Many people of this thread have commented on regional aviation security, you may also like to look at the Howard governments effectivness in banning guns to see how useful our national security actually is.

We need to refuse to pay it and make a good media issue out of it. Unfortunately our rather fragmented industry does not have an umbrella organisation with political clout to employ effective tactics.

RMA

[currawong]

What would this measure actually do to prevent a 9/11 type event?

Sweet F A.

The folks at our maintenance base are still laughing at crews for being obliged to get ASIC's.

They are airside everyday wandering about with tools etc and require nothing.

[Rabbit]

So what you are all saying is that our so called permanent license is now only going to be a 2 year license and $200 to boot..........I DON"T THINK SO.

Have a nice day

[OZBUSDRIVER]

To qoute from the DOTARS press release

The cost of background checking and the photographic licence will be borne by individual pilots. Licences will be valid for two years and will cost around $200.

After reading it again. I think thats what they want. 'spose it helps pay for the new look CASA. Would be good if it come with some of the things they took off me back in the 80's like my mappacks and VFG and ANO's and FSU's and ..

[Mixture Rich]

Ahem. I thought my Licence said it was granted - in perpetuity- and could only be revoked if I broke the law ie CAR's etc. My Medical I need to renew every two years ( yes, I know, a lowly PPL) but my licence...never.
What law am I supposed to have broken to have them revoke my Licence so that I need to get it renewed?

[ugly]

The frustrating thing is we are virtually powerless to do anything. The public will think it's a great idea. How liitle they really know!

Aviation needs to get the public on its side.

Paint this as the thin edge of the wedge. First it'll be pilots, then truck, bus and ordinary motorists all being subjected to 'background' checks

[compressor stall]

Aviation needs to get the public on its side

In the USA they have this great organisation called AOPA. It rallies the media (and subsequently the public) on various issues that interest the entire pilot body . They managed to get similar proposals in the US paid for by the gov't.

Wouldn't it be good to have such an organisation here. :} :}

[Disco Stu]

Stally you are right of course.

Unfortunately there are those who see membership of AOPA as being below their (perceived ) dignity as professional (licence held not attitude) pilots.

Most of the 'rubbishing' comes not from the membership but from outside the organisation. Heaven forbid doing something positive like joining AOPA and actually getting involved in these 'stouches' with the bureaucrats of this world.

That is, rather than sitting oustide snipping away and expecting somebody else to do your fighting and dirty work for you!

Oh and by the way, AOPA are onto this licence/police check/$200 piffle anyway. And yes, the result will be either enjoyed but probably ignored if we win but listen to the howls (of the non-members naturally) if we don't.

Disco Stu

:ok:

[maxgrad]

disco stu
ok fine aha
now lets just get on with it and work the problem shall we
there is a rather unjustified cost increase in our industry.
can and will AOPA do something ? ? ?
can ALL pilots (AOPA or not!) do something ?
where do we start ?
here?I hope so !


the only attack here is at the problem!!

[tealady]

Never voted labour in my life, but...... it really is time to at least get rid of John Anderson. Any pilot who flies this moron around should pay the $200 for every other pilot in the country! Everyone in the industry should try to access as many pollies as they can. I currently have 17 15 and 16 year olds on Flightcamp and they are they are extremely responsible and are very much pro Oz. They are thoroughly disgusted with the governments' proposed charges. Will Air Force Cadets be subjected to the same charge? What about Defence Force personnel who also hold civvy pilot licences? Some companies already do police checks and bear the costs - $24 per person was the last price we were quoted. We need to hit every form of media we can.

[QNIM]

Gday All

I agree, what a load of crap we have to put up with, if my company won't pay up I definately won't, if they do then up go the prices less punters learning, less GA, but maybe thats Johns plan.
Some posters have indicated that AOPA should get in there and do something, I agree, I hope those posters are members and all the others who are not join today .

Cheers Q

[Rich-Fine-Green]

Disco Stu:

I am a Professional Pilot and a member of AOPA.

Quite a number of Professional Pilots I know are also members so it's not an 'us vs them'.

Oh and by the way, AOPA are onto this licence/police check/$200 piffle anyway

IF AOPA is doing something about it, the time to make noise is now.

So far, no press releases, TV interviews or newspaper interviews (please correct me if there has been).

The only way to change this is to embarrass Anderson as he is reactionary.

If Howard was the T Minister then no chance as he would dig his heels in. Anderson will cave in under after a few breakfast TV interviews with AOPA and other industry reps.

AOPA can take a leaf out of the Kooky Greens book. Bombard the airwaves to get noticed. They get FREE airplay because they make noise).

Watch the membership numbers climb if AOPA starts stirring the pot publically.

[QNIM]

Gday All

I agree, what a load of crap we have to put up with, if my company won't pay up I definately won't, if they do then up go the prices less punters learning, less GA, but maybe thats Johns plan.
Some posters have indicated that AOPA should get in there and do something, I agree, I hope those posters are members and all the others who are not join today .

Cheers Q

[bigfella5]

Ronnie Bertram......how about making some noise on this?

[Pinky the pilot]

Does anyone else get the feeling that some (if not all) of the shiny bums in Canberra have totally lost the plot? Talk about the inmates running the asylum!!
I sincerely hope that AFAP as well will have something to say about this latest piece of lunacy.

You only live twice. Once when
you're born. Once when
you've looked death in the face.

[Captain Flak]

OK - Im an AOPA member - I dont know any pollies and I dont want to pay this stupid #&$^ing check/tax.

What can I as an individual do to help the cause? I do have a couple of mates in the media (albeit the wrong dept.) who may be able to find a sympathetic ear .

Any ideas people?

[OZBUSDRIVER]

Write your local member. Biggest problem is aviation as a community of voters does not have the critical mass required to make MPs get nervous enough to get off the back bench and make enough noise to save their collective arses.:( Food for thought, your one letter could be enough to tip the balance in favour of getting something done. Done my bit, wrote to little johnny and my local member. Still waiting for a reply.

Regards

Mark

[Counter-rotation]

Just received by email a petition re the new airspace. Some of you may have seen it too. Generated on a site designed specifically for that purpose (sorry don't have the address now :{
The same tactic could work here, maybe? I don't think there's a pilot in the country who wouldn't sign it!! Many others would too I'm sure.
Would someone out there not paying per minute for online time like to examine the possibility?

Yes it's ridiculous
Yes it's the thin end of the wedge
Tell 'em all to GO AND GET... well, you know. :yuk:

CR.

[Skyway]

And so after paying my $200 to these money hungry, non starving, never been at the bottom of the pile pigs, will I be able to earn some money flying a &*^$ing banner around Brisbane city, or will I still be untrusted.

Thanks CASA.:yuk:

[Ovation]

The background check is another example of the mindless paranoia that's come out of the USA. It will certainly reduce unemployment, but have no effect on security standards.

What about applying the same standards, cost and fequency of renewals to:

Cabin crew, airport ground staff, fuel tanker drivers (nationally - not just at airports), refinery and gas plant employees, groundsmen at sporting venues (just in case they plant a bomb under the cricket pitch). The list goes on and on.....

These "rule-makers" need to stop and take stock of what they are doing and go tell the USA to find out why the other half of the world hate them so much.

[cirrus32]

Ovation,

I hold an FAA PPL (as well as my Aust. RPPL) and even though I'm a foreign national (Australian citizen living in the USA), I haven't been subjected to any background checks. So this particular piece of stupidity is not coming from the US. All I can think is it's another bit of revenue raising because only "rich" people can afford to fly aeroplanes ... so what's another $200! :ugh:

Well, for me it's $200 less that I'll spend on flying.

I've sent my letter of protest to my local member and to Mr. Anderson. Still waiting for a reply.

H

[Pharcarnell]

How many does a guy need?
Because I have a passenger endorsement on my drivers licence, I have to have a police check every renewal, $24.
Because I have worked in mine areas I have security clearance and a police file, still current.
Because I have worked in defence security areas, I have an ongoing security check, including I believe an FBI file from past associations with the US military establishment.
Now these clowns want me to pay for yet another security check, and it's the most expensive of all. What a crock!
How many of these little bureaucratic wallies does it take to check you out? Can't they talk to each other and find out if you are already cleared to WAAAAAAAAY higher than they'll ever want for their little scheme.
With all these clearances I need, they'll be tripping over each other to get to my records and probably never grant any of them again!

[Azimuth]

How about if all politicians had to have background checks before holding positions of power? What happens if the minister of defence is secretly liasing with Osama Bin Laden :E

[pesawat_terbang]

AOPA Press releases, letters to Minister and the Minister's e-mail address are at

www.aopa.com.au

click on forums.

Jangan Gidu Dong!!!

PT