Boeing down in Cotonou (merged)

[4HolerPoler]

Initial press reports regarding a Boeing on a Cotonou (Benin) to Beirut flight has crashed on takeoff. Reports that it hit building and somehow ended up in the Atlantic.

[Airbubba]

At least 60 killed in Benin plane crash: witnesses

COTONOU : More than 60 people were killed on Thursday when an aircraft bound for Beirut crashed into the sea off the west African state of Benin, witnesses said.

Witnesses said they had seen the bodies lined up on the beach near the plane, which crashed into the sea near the runway after take off from Cotonou, capital of Benin.

One of the crewmembers on board, who survived the disaster, told local journalists that the plane was heading to Beirut and that most of the passengers were Lebanese.

The plane belonged to a Lebanese charter airline called UTA, according to airport sources in Beirut.

Other unconfirmed reports in Beirut said there were 140 passengers on board.

The tiny African state of Benin lies west of Nigeria on the Atlantic Ocean. - AFP

_______________________________________

Plane Crashes Into Atlantic Off West Africa's Benin

Thursday, December 25, 2003 10:53 a.m. ET

COTONOU, Benin (Reuters) - A Boeing passenger plane bound for Beirut crashed into the Atlantic Ocean after takeoff in the West African country of Benin on Thursday, killing dozens of passengers, witnesses and airport officials said.

Witnesses said they saw at least 30 bodies strewn on the beach near the airport in the main city Cotonou, where the plane crashed just after takeoff in the Gulf of Guinea.
It was not immediately clear which airline was involved but witnesses said most of the bodies recovered appeared to be Lebanese. There is a large Lebanese community in West Africa.

Airport officials said the plane had problems retracting its landing gear after takeoff, smashed into a building at the end of the runway, exploded and then crashed into the sea.

Airport officials said the flight originated in Conakry, capital of the West African nation Guinea, and was traveling to Beirut via Dubai.

Sixty-three passengers boarded in Cotonou but the total number of passengers was not immediately clear.

Rescue workers were searching the sea after the crash, which took place around 1415 GMT.

In December 1995 about 60 people were killed when a Cameroon airliner on a flight from Cotonou crashed into a swamp in Cameroon.

[4HolerPoler]

Photos are of a Boeing 727. Wreckage shown on the beach.

[Boss Raptor]

There was an operator in Guinea Conakry 'UTA' running AN24's and L410's...assume it is one and the same...maybe has a Lebanese connection

[GlueBall]

AirDisaster (http://www.airdisaster.com)

[NRDK]

90 feared killed in Benin plane crash

19:30 - 25 December 2003

At least 90 people, mostly Lebanese, were feared killed when a passenger plane bound for Beirut crashed into the sea shortly after takeoff from the West African nation of Benin.

As many as 200 passengers and crew were on United Transit Airlines Flight 141 from Cotonou, Benin's commercial capital, when the plane went down at 2.55pm (1355 GMT), airport security official Jerome Dandjinou said.

Lebanese television quoted Ghabi Koudieh, a Lebanese expatriate in Cotonou and a witness at the crash site, as saying the death toll rose to 90 as more bodies were pulled out of the sea. Among the dead, he said, between 80 and 85 were Lebanese.

Lebanese TV also quoted other witnesses in Cotonou as saying there were about 35 Lebanese survivors.

Dozens of bodies floated among the plane's wreckage about 150 yards off a Cotonou beach and local residents scrambled into the water to search for survivors and recover the dead.

Benin President Mattieu Kerekou also visited the crash site.

Pieces of the plane were lying in the surf: a shorn-off landing gear, the cockpit and the rear part of the fuselage, along with an engine. Tangled wires and metal hung from the ripped-open fuselage.

Airport officials in Beirut said the Boeing 727 had been chartered by two Lebanese men, and most of the passengers were believed to be returning home for the Christmas holidays.

Thousands of Lebanese immigrants live and work in West African countries.

A witness at the crash site said the plane had trouble taking off and hit a building at the end of the runway.

[GlueBall]

News Photo (http://breakingnews.nypost.com/photos/NY19112251751-big.jpg)

[autopilot_99]

CNN reportes following:

COTONOU, Benin (Reuters) -- An airliner crashed into the sea moments after takeoff in Benin on Thursday, killing at least 90 people on board and forcing rescuers to plunge into the waves to save others or salvage their bodies.

Benin's Health Minister Celine Segnon said at least 90 had been killed, four of them having died in hospital after being rescued, and 18 had survived. Onlookers screamed in horror as corpses washed up on a beach in Cotonou, Benin's main city.

The Boeing 727's smashed cockpit, twisted metal and battered suitcases littered the shallow waters at the sea's edge.

Relatives and others dived into the waves to try to overturn a chunk of the fuselage, but were thwarted by a wing rammed into the seabed. Some relatives who plunged into the water said they did not want their loved ones' bodies disfigured by fish.

Rescue workers toiled into the night under powerful lights.

Airport officials in Cotonou said the plane had had problems retracting its landing gear after takeoff. It smashed into a building at the end of the runway, exploded and then crashed into the sea at around 1415 GMT (9:15 EST).

Fishermen, navy divers, the army and Red Cross workers searched the shores of the Gulf of Guinea for survivors and the President of Benin Mathieu Kerekou visited the scene.

The plane had been heading for Beirut, carrying members of Lebanese communities in West Africa. In Beirut, people waited anxiously at the international airport for word of survivors on UTA Flight 141.

"I learned that my son has broken bones. But what matters is he is alive," said Ali Bashir, his eyes red from crying.

The aircraft belonged to Lebanese-owned Union Transport Africaines, officials in Cotonou said. Most of those on board were Lebanese but some passengers were from Benin, Guinea and Sierra Leone.

Relatives grieve and hope
West Africa has had Lebanese communities for more than a century and they form the backbone of some smaller economies.

"My brother and my uncle are on this plane. We have called people we know in Cotonou and they said they got on the plane. Now we don't know what happened to them," said a weeping man at Beirut airport.

"We hope they are still alive. We don't know their fate."

Some relatives watched news of the crash on television sets in the airport. Others glanced at other Lebanese, some clutching welcome bouquets and waiting for happy reunions with relatives arriving on other flights.

"It is a disaster for Lebanon as most of the passengers are Lebanese," Lebanon's Transport Minister Najib Mikati said. He added that most of the survivors were Lebanese and a Libyan co-pilot had also survived.

Middle East Airlines, Lebanon's national carrier, said it had been asked by the government to send a plane to Cotonou with a medical team on board.

Africa's poorly maintained airliners are prone to disaster. Thursday's crash is the third this year in Africa in which planes have plunged to the ground shortly after takeoff.

------------------------
More from the other press :
A jetliner clipped a building during takeoff and crashed into the sea off the West African nation of Benin on Thursday, killing dozens of Lebanese workers on their way home for the holidays.

A witness said 90 passengers were dead, while a doctor said 57 had been taken to a hospital morgue and more bodies were being retrieved from the water.

The chartered Boeing 727 bound for Beirut had just lifted off from the seaside airport in Cotonou, Benin's commercial capital, said Jerome Dandjinou, a senior airport security official.

"The back of the plane hit a building at the end of the runway. There was a fire and an explosion was heard," Dandjinou told The Associated Press. "The plane exploded and the debris fell into the water."

Airport officials in Beirut said the plane was chartered from United Transit Airlines; but officials in Guinea, where the plan began its trip, identified the company as Union des Transports Africain. Air France said the company was unrelated to the former French airline UTA, which was absorbed by Air France a decade ago.

It was unclear how many people were on the plane. Benin's transport minister, Ahmed Akobi, said there were 156 passengers and an unknown number of crew, while an official with UTA said 253 people were on board.

Dozens of bodies - men, women, children and babies - floated among the plane's wreckage about 150 yards off a Cotonou beach. Fishermen and residents waded into the water to search for survivors and recover the dead.

Television images showed pieces of the plane lying in the surf: a shorn-off landing gear, part of a wing, the cockpit and the rear part of the fuselage, along with an engine.

Tangled wires and metal hung from the ripped-open fuselage. One man sat in the sand, blood running down his bare chest. Another injured man held his head.

One of the Lebanese survivors, Nabil Hashem, told Al Manar television in Beirut that he was in the back of the plane and was able to swim to safety.

"Those in the front were the most hurt," Hashem said. "May God's mercy fall on them. It was a horrible scene."

Ghabi Koudieh, a Lebanese expatriate in Cotonou, told Al Manar that 90 bodies were pulled out from the sea. At least 80 were Lebanese, he said. Other witnesses said there were about 35 Lebanese survivors.

Martin Chobli, a doctor with the emergency medical service, SAMU, said at least 22 people had survived and at least 57 had been taken to a hospital morgue.

"We are receiving reports that more bodies are coming out the water," Chobli said.

He said the army, the paramilitary police and the Red Cross all had rescue teams at the scene.

A solemn Benin President Mattieu Kerekou also visited the crash site.

Airport officials in Beirut said the plane had been chartered by two Lebanese men. Most of the passengers were believed to be returning home for the Christmas holidays.

Thousands of Lebanese immigrants live and work in West African countries.

In Beirut, Lebanese Transportation Minister Najib Mikati said the plane initially took off from the Guinean capital, Conakry, and stopped in Freetown, Sierra Leone, picking up Lebanese along the way.

Guinean officials said Sierra Leone and Guinean nationals were also aboard the plane, but it was not known how many.

Mohammed Khazen, a brother of one of the businessmen who chartered the plane, was weeping when reached by phone in Beirut.

"Six people from my family - including nephews - are on the flight and I have no information about them," he said.

Three families gathered at the arrival lounge at Beirut airport. Some wept; others prayed to God to spare their loved ones.

Zeina Shemaytelli clutched her 3-year-old daughter and wept as others tried to calm her down.

Lebanon's national carrier, Middle East Airlines, was to fly a medical team to Benin, LBC television said.

[Planned Root]

Sounds like a classic case of overloading to me.

[JJflyer]

Yip. Remember being over 12 tons over after one departure from Cotonou/DBBB. Load sheet means nothing to these guys. If there's space left they will put stuff in. They will never tell the crew either about the overloading as they might not get to put the load in then.
What surprises me is that this had not happend before.

It would be interesting to know who actually chartered the aircraft and who took care of the handling.

JJ

[Tony_EM]

Reports of gear retraction problems could indicate loss of hydraulic pressure, which could have led to control difficulties. However, I wouldn't trust any earlyl reports until the experts get there.

Over/misloading wouldn't surprise me at all, neither would incorrect flap/slat setting or engine failure.

I'm also guessing that such charter ops usually have the flight crew over-seeing loading.

[ATC Watcher]

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
" It was unclear how many people were on the plane. Benin's transport minister, Ahmed Akobi, said there were 156 passengers and an unknown number of crew, while an official with UTA said 253 people were on board. "
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

156 seats and 253 tickets sold would not surprise me, I wonder how many ended up on board, but like all previous African accidents we will probably never know....

[GOLF-INDIA BRAVO]

Taken from another group, I am led to believe that the aircraft in question is the B727 (3X-GDM) that went missing in Africa a few months back and is ex American Airlines, so a lot of question I`m sure will be asked of the operator

Golf India Bravo

[ATC Watcher]

from a libanese site : the flight was a multi legs one , 141 seats on board, and the FO , a lybian, is said to have survived, so we might know a bit more...

[smallpilot]

Planned Root, Tony Em, et al - were you there? Didnt think so! Neither was I. Thats why I hate all this speculation, particularly so soon after an incident when all the facts have yet to be established.
I'm getting fed up with all the 'experts' on here who seem to feel they have the answer to every incident 5 minutes after it happenned. Call yourselves 'Professionals' - then act like it please and lets get the facts out before we start jumping to conclusions!

ps - i have no connection with this incident at all, just a terrible thing to happen at this time of year especially, sympathies to all.

[Tony_EM]

Smallpilot, please excuse me. It is just my way of dealing with things that cause so much pain and saddness which this accident has done. Sometimes, the desire to understand how and why is too much. You are of course right.

[lomapaseo]

Tony-Em

Thanks for reminding me that hydraulics could also have been a reason for the gear down initial reports.

Nothing wrong, IMO, about considering what is factual in the reports and what factors might correlate.

Of course conclusions like "sounds like" have no support at such an early stage

[RASTAMIKE]

Smallpilot, read (take) that:

www.aviation-safety.net

Date: 25 DEC 2003
Time: 14:55
Type: Boeing 727-223
Operator: Union des Transports Africains de Guinée
Registration: 3X-GDM ??
Msn / C/n: 21089/1273?
Year built:
Engines: 3 Pratt & Whitney JT8D-9A
Crew: fatalities / 7 on board
Passengers: fatalities / 156 on board
Total: 111 fatalities / 163 on board
Airplane damage: Written off
Location: off Cotonou Airport (COO) (Benin)
Phase: Initial Climb
Nature: International Scheduled Passenger
Departure airport: Cotonou Airport (COO)
Destination airport: Beirut Airport (BEY)
Flightnumber: 141
Remarks:
Union des Transports Africains de Guinée operates two flights a week from Conakry, Guinea to Beirut and Dubai with their newly acquired ex-American Airlines Boeing 727. On December 25, UTA Flight 141 departed Conakry, Guinea for a scheduled flight to Beirut, Lebanon with a planned intermediate stop at Cotonou. At Cotonou nine of the 92 passengers deplaned and 73 passengers boarded the flight. It was a warm afternoon at a temperature of 32 deg. C with a light breeze as the 727 taxied to runway 24. Runway 06/24 is an asphalt runway, measuring 2400 (7874 feet) meters with a 61m (199 feet) overrun zone. According to FAA runway length requirement calculations, a fully laden Boeing 727-200 with JT8D-9 engines and a 25-degrees flap setting would, given the weather and airfield elevation, need a runway length of approx. 8000 feet.
Apparently the 727 barely climbed after takeoff, causing the main undercarriage to strike the roof of a 2-3 meters high small building housing radio equipment. The operator inside the building suffered injuries. The plane continued, smashed through the airport boundary fence, crashed and broke up on the shoreline.
Weather at the time of the accident (13:55Z) was: DBBB 251400Z 17006KT 130V210 8000 FEW015 BKN250 32/27 Q1009 NOSIG=

There are people in this forum that knows Africa and the way aircraft are operated. Look at Hewa Bora and their old 727 and Tristars: taking off fully load out of Goma (which by the way only has less than 2000 meters available due to Lava) or Mbuji-Mai with 2000 meters, altitude and tropical temperature. So when that happen, we are not surprised and can speculate freely.

[Airways Ed]

GIB

If it was 3X-GDM it was never 'missing in Africa'. A photo of 3X-GDM in UTA colours was published in Airways magazine, November 2003.

[RASTAMIKE]

and Aerotransport data listed the aircraft as follows:

3X-GDM - B.727-223 - msn 21089 - s/n 1263 -ex N862AA (American AL)

the ghost seven two was re-registered 3X-GOM

[tsgas]

Jt8D-9a's were never meant to handle that kind of work.

[GlueBall]

photo of sistership (http://www.airliners.net/open.file/478565/M/)

[RASTAMIKE]

156 passengers, probably not light ones, with heavy X-mas X-bag and fuel to go to Beirut, you bet the aircraft was heavy...on a 2'400 meters runway with 32° C

beside the 72, the company operates AN-24 on domestic routes. Wouldn't give a try.

[Panama Jack]

You Kapufniks hate it when the media rushes into speculations ought to watch your own speculation, especially when the media cruises aviation forums like "johns" looking for juicy "interpretations" from "experts."

Personally, I would love to know what happened also, but I'll wait for the year or two until the real experts (those who kick tin and review the tapes) come out with the most interesting and accurate interpretation of what probably happened.

[RASTAMIKE]

like for other air disasters on that continent, we will never know the cause(s) as there will be no serious investigation. Lack of means, expertise, will, motivation etc etc, on top of that regulating authorities are as much responsible as the bunch of business men that run these airlines, so what...

[Panama Jack]

Fair enough Rastamike.

But does that give us license to fill in the void then?

[littlepuddlejumper]

Is it possible to change the number on a Airliner? Comparing the crashed 727 to the missing 727.

When I look at the pictures of the two aircraft note the makings on the tail, even though maybe repainted, there are similarities.

link to crashed craft.
http://www.airliners.net/open.file/478565/M/

link to missing craft.
http://www.airliners.net/open.file?id=215616&WxsIERv=Qm9laW5nIDcyNy0yMjMvQWR2&WdsYXMg=QW1lcmljYW4gQWlybGluZXM%3D&QtODMg=TWlhbWkgLSBPcGEgTG9ja2EgKE9QRik%3D&ERDLTkt=VVNBIC0gRmxvcmlkYQ%3D%3D&ktODMp=SmFudWFyeSAxOSwgMjAwMg%3D%3D&BP=0&WNEb25u=QnJpYW4gU3RldmVuc29uIC0gU1BPVCBUSElTIQ%3D%3D&xsIERvdWdsY=Tjg0NEFB&MgTUQtODMgKE=Tm93IHN0cmlwcGVkIG9mIGl0cyB0aXRsZXMgYW5kIHN0cml wZXMgcGFpbnRlZCBvdmVyLCB0aGlzIGV4LUFB

[Gouabafla]

For more information on the aircraft involved and for a reminder of the human side of this tragedy it is worth looking at some of the posts on the African Aviation forum.

http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=113289

Edited to add the URL

[Rodiano]

I felt very soory for those who lost thier life in Africa on Board the B727.
All reports indicate that the aircraft hit the building at the end of the runway while the Landing Gears still down and that they suspected that the aircraft was over weight.

This Aircraft was previously planned to go on Labanese registeration and the application was rejected due to safety concern (Maintenance History) and that aircraft was not brought up todate by the owner who is based in Sharjah, United Arab Emirates.
The owner is known for his reputation attitude toward maintenance and compliance with regulations.......

This give a clear indication that this owner is not only cutting corners in sfaety and maintenance but intentially harming people on board and should face the consequences.

It is a sad things to see people like that in Aviation.............
And it is time for Authorities to step and take sever action against those people specially in The UAE where many charters arlines are based thier using it as a base for maintenance while the aircraft is registered in Non accountable Authorities like New Guinee, Swaziland< Kinshasa, Sudan and many others.....

[Changi]

Yes, it is sad indeed. There are few new airlines in SE Asia using old 727s , so I hope the maintenance is ok. There is a new one operating between Changi and Medan now. This is Jatayu airlines who are using just one 727 to fly between Surabaya - singapore - medan and batam. I do hope its well maintained.

[rotornut]

Overloading blamed for air crash
Lebanon says overloading may have caused Thursday's plane crash in Benin that killed over 130 people, many of them Lebanese residents of West Africa.
After returning to Beirut with 15 survivors, Lebanon's Foreign Minister Jean Obeid said there seemed to have been too many people and bags on board.

Fifteen Bangladeshi UN peacekeepers were among those who died in the crash.

The Beirut-bound plane plunged into the sea shortly after taking off from Cotonou, the main city in Benin.

Twenty-two people survived, including the Lebanese pilot of the Boeing 727, which was carrying 161 people.

Most of those on board the plane were Lebanese nationals returning to Lebanon during the Christmas holiday. Cotonou has a large Lebanese community.

Mr Obeid said there should be an investigation in Lebanon, in addition to one already launched in Benin.

"It appears that the number of passengers exceeds the normal number, in addition to the load, which it appears was very much in excess," he told reporters in Beirut.

Bodies laid out on beach

A military spokesman in the Bangladesh capital, Dhaka, said its soldiers had been returning home on leave.

Thirteen of them had been serving as UN peacekeepers in Sierra Leone. Two others had been stationed in Liberia, he said.


Hundreds of emergency workers, troops and fishermen in Benin joined the recovery effort on Friday.
One of the aircraft's flight recorders was recovered and investigators hope it will help to identify the reasons behind the crash.

On Friday Lebanese divers and medical staff joined the rescue efforts. Thousands of Beninois looked on as the divers pulled the plane's wreckage out of the Atlantic Ocean.

Bodies were laid out on the beach, which was thronged by onlookers as well as emergency workers.

Many of the survivors were in the back of the aircraft and managed to swim the hundred metres or so to shore after it crashed into the sea.

One survivor said: "Everything went blank in front of us. I found myself in the sea, I looked around and I saw my son.

"I took him to the beach, I went back to the sea, saw my wife and took her to the beach as well. I couldn't find my little girl."

Investigation

The plane belonged to a charter airline called Union des Transports Africains (UTA).


It is reportedly controlled by Guinean and Lebanese owners, and is unrelated to the former French airline UTA.
The company operates between Africa, Lebanon, and Dubai.

It had been denied registration in Lebanon for failing to fulfil "technical requirements", the Lebanese press quoted Transport Minister Najib Miqati as saying.

UTA Flight 141 originated in Conakry, the capital of Guinea, and had stopped in Freetown in Sierra Leone, before landing in Cotonou. It was bound for Beirut and Dubai.

Story from BBC NEWS:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/2/hi/africa/3351083.stm

Published: 2003/12/27 12:59:30 GMT

© BBC MMIII

[B747 Plumber]

Rodiano,
You have some very accurate background on the owner of this aircraft. He is based in Sharjah, but he is originally from Palestine and holds a US passport. His home is in Miami and he hides under the name J Taylor Investments.
I hate to say this but I saw something like this coming when on 7 Nov I made a post about his Dangerous B747 operation flying pilgrims out of Tripoli to Jedah. I contacted the authorities in the countries where he is operating his aircraft and where it is registered with no response.
I believe the cockpit crew was from Syria-not sure. He focuses on crews that are "Down and Out in Aviation" and are willing to work for cheap wages. They are more willing to take his bullying and will accept an aircraft that is overweight and not on the "UP and Up" when it comes to maintenance.
I am very sorry to see the loss of life that this man has caused and I hope he is unable to sleep at night and is unable to look at himself in the mirror every morning.

The Plumber

[Down and Welded]

Regarding the earlier report(s) that the a/c experienced "...trouble retracting its undercarriage..."

Unless this came from the F/O, who is reported in this forum as having survived, upon what basis would an observer be able to make such a determination??

D&W

[maxalt]

Hate to get on my 'West Africa hobby horse' again but overloading is just another example of the many and varied ways they'll try to kill you down there.

I once had to operate a 'round the houses' domestic 737 duty in Lagos. Due to fuel being unavailable at one of the down route ports of call we had to carry through fuel. This meant we were right up to max RTOW out of Lagos. We informed the so called 'load controller' that we couldn't take the regular newspaper load on this run.

Later while sitting in the cockpit we were amazed to see the three tons of newspapers being driven out to the aircraft. I opened my window and told the ****** in no uncertain terms to clear off with his newspapers. He drove away reluctantly.

Later, when I did the walkaround at the first outstation, what do I see being off-loaded from the aircraft? You got it...the goddamn three tons of newspapers! The bastards had just driven them round the back where we couldn't see 'em and put them in the hold!

We were at least three tons overweight on take-off in 35deg temperatures!

Every time I rotated an aircraft in Lagos I'd wonder if we were going flying....or farming today.

[RASTAMIKE]

a common say in Africa (especially for Kinshasa)

Aeroplanes take-off because the earth is round....

[obiukwu]

So far we have had 3 pages of speculation and anecdotes about overloading in Africa, forgeting that there have also been incidents/accidents related to overloading in Europe/America/Asia.
If this crash had happened in Europe, we would no doubt have had 3 pages of condolences and sympathies instead.

[Pistonprop]

Excellent point Obiukwu !

[RASTAMIKE]

obiukwu,

Nope, in Europe you will have people on trial, not in Africa...

[maxalt]

Excellent point RASTAMIKE !

[LEM]

obiukwu, rubbish!

overloading in darkest Africa in no speculation, it's the rule!

and if you knew by how much!

You know why airplanes manage to takeoff here, and why we don't have a crash everyday?

Because God is Congolese.

[RASTAMIKE]

he can also be Afghan,

The previous owner of that particular ex AAL 727-200 was Ariana Afghan Airlines....

[B747 Plumber]

No RASTAMIKE he is not Afghan. The info on the owner of this aircraft that I posted is 100% correct. He has some kind of "deal/agreement" with Ariana where he sells and leases them old AA B727's that he takes out of storage. I believe this aircraft was leased to Ariana during last years hajj.
The Plumber

[GlueBall]

I doubt that a B72-2 overloaded with just pax and baggage in itself, without other anomalies, such as, for example, improper technique, incorrect flap setting, or engine failure, would cause the airplane to stall and crash. With correct configuration and max available power from all three engines the airplane could still fly when significantly overloaded.

[Airbubba]

>>With correct configuration and max available power from all three engines the airplane could still fly when significantly overloaded.<<

I've seen that demonstrated many times out of MIA with Caribbean "hand luggage". Taking off to the east you could almost read license plates on Le Jeune Road. It was a lot easier if you had -17R engines...

Here's more on the "unsolved mysteries" aspects of the crash:

Questions Arise Over W. Africa Jet Crash

By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS

Published: January 2, 2004

Filed at 9:22 p.m. ET

DAKAR, Senegal (AP) -- American authorities are investigating whether a Boeing 727 shattered in a deadly Christmas Day crash off West Africa was the same jet that vanished in Angola last year, setting off a worldwide search, a U.S. State Department spokesman said Friday.

Also, a Canadian humanitarian-flight pilot told The Associated Press he saw a 727 with the missing Angola jet's tail number at Guinea's airport in June -- a month after the jet's disappearance.

The plane's old tail number was not fully covered, and the plane was reregistered in Guinea and flown by Lebanese-owned Union des Transports Africains, pilot Bob Strothers said.

``We saw it on the ramp,'' Strothers said by telephone from the Guinea capital, Conakry. ``A new registration had been painted on the aluminum part, and underneath ... you could see the old registration number, which matches the plane that went missing.''

The plane that crashed off Benin on Christmas Day, killing at least 130 of the 161 people aboard, was Guinean-registered and operated by Union des Transports Africains.

Strothers said he believed UTA had at least two Boeing 727s at the time of the crash, making it impossible for him to judge whether the vanished Angola plane and the crashed Benin jet were the same.

Strothers first disclosed his information before the Christmas Day crash, in which the plane, carrying mostly Lebanese, clipped a building at the end of the runway and plunged into the Atlantic Ocean.

The information heightened the mystery surrounding the missing jet, which took off from an airport in Luanda, Angola, on May 25 and disappeared.

The United States has led an international hunt for the Angola 727, using satellite surveillance to check airstrips around the world, fearing that terrorists might have taken the Angola plane for a Sept. 11-style attack.

American officials also have cited a possible business dispute as a reason for the disappearance of the Angola jet.

Lebanese news media on Friday suggested the two planes were the same.

But aviation officials in Lebanon and others there who are knowledgeable about the country's aviation industry discounted the idea -- telling the AP that the plane that crashed off Benin appeared much older than the one that went missing from Angola.

In Washington, State Department spokesman Lou Fintor said, ``We're aware of the reports. We're checking into them.''

UTA offices in Guinea and in Lebanon have been deserted since the Christmas Day crash, with police surrounding the Guinea offices.

The airline's owner survived the Christmas Day crash, but he and the plane's Libyan pilot have not been seen publicly since leaving the hospital.

In Guinea, transport officials said they investigated Strothers' report that the planes were the same and found it to be false.

``He was mistaken,'' senior aviation deputy Dominique Mara said. ``This wasn't the plane from Luanda. The Transport Ministry has denied this claim.''

Also, the FBI has put out a worldwide alert for American Ben Charles Padilla, who allegedly was seen boarding the Angola jet with another man just before it disappeared.

According to Padilla's family in Florida, he was hired to repossess the jet after Air Angola failed to make lease payments.

His sister, Benita Padilla-Kirkland, told the South Florida Sun-Sentinel she feared the plane crashed or the 51-year-old Padilla was being held against his will.

http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/international/AP-Africa-Mystery-Plane.html

[tsgas]

GlueBall you just pasted the interview process to work at ypur choice of any sleezeey African dirt bag air carrier. Ignorance may be bliss but often it can be very dangerous.
People familiar ( which you certainley are not) refer to the B727-200's with the the Dash 9's as "the lead sled ".

[DownIn3Green]

If this 727 was fitted with pax seats, it couldn't have been the missing fuel tanker from Angola.

I've flown those tankers and other cargo 727's and they all have all of the insulation and soundproofing ripped out to save the weight. Putting one back into pax configuration (even "African Standard") would be not cost effective even if it were possible.

And as anyone who IS familiar with the 727, the -9's were a joy to fly, compared to the real "lead sleds" which were -7's.

I agree with Airbubba, give me the -17R's or the Valsan conversion and day...

[tsgas]

The -7's were original equipment on the B727-100 ,the original B727 ,the -9's were original equipment on the B-727-200 series.
EAL had the brilliant idea of paying extra money to have Boeing modify their B727-200 or order to the -7's in order to have a common engine for the DC-9-30,B727-25,B727-225 fortunately only 25 EAL were the lead sled .The original configuration called for 118 pax on the B-727-225 used on domestic short to medium runs.
So the -9's used for pax loads of 175 pax ,on long hauls,and in tropical temperatures, would certainley be to a safety conscience crew member, another lead sled.
EAL did upgrade to the -15's then the =17's for the South American runs.

[Airman32]

smallpilot: I am with you! Remember when I first became a Flt Ops Inspector and invited to dinner by a crew after a checkride. Both pilots began to add salt and pepper to their meals as soon as waiter set the plates on the table. An experienced (Senior) Checkpilot, wispered to me: "... making a decision with-out knowing the facts!"

I always remember this when I am about to open my mouth to speak when I do not have the facts.

Cheers

[747FOCAL]

Well if this one had a serial number different than what is below it is not the missing 727 from Angola.

Detail Data for Serial Number 20985

AIRPLANE INFORMATION
AIRPLANE ID: QA143 SERIAL NO: 20985 AMRE REGISTRY: N844AA
BAS-EFF: Q0536 LINE NO: 1123 ORIGINAL REGISTRY: N844AA
ENG-EFF: MODEL-DASH 727-200 CURRENT REGISTRY: N844AA
MODEL: 727-223 COUNTRY OF REGISTRY U.S.A.

I think somebody made an earlier post that the airplane that just crashed had serial number 21089. The missing one has serial 20985.

This is 3X-GDM:

AIRPLANE INFORMATION
AIRPLANE ID: QA161 SERIAL NO: 21089 AMRE REGISTRY: N862AA
BAS-EFF: Q0661 LINE NO: 1263 ORIGINAL REGISTRY: N862AA
ENG-EFF: MODEL-DASH 727-200 CURRENT REGISTRY: 3X-GDM
MODEL: 727-223 MODEL CONFIG: 200 COUNTRY OF REGISTRY GUINEA
ENGINE-MFG: PRATT & WHITNEY COMMERCIAL ENGINE BUSINESS ENGINE DESCRIPTION: JT8D
IN SERVICE: YES OUT OF SERVICE DATE: AFM NO: D6-8728.3
REIMP-AP-CD: ADD VAR IND: N AP PARK IND: Y
DELIVERY DATE: 05/13/1977 (Actual)

[wes_wall]

In todays AV Flash


http://www.avweb.com/eletter/archives/avflash/170-full.html#186414

[alexmcfire]

B747 Plumber, here´s the names of the person you mention,
http://www.dailystar.com.lb/05_01_04/art2.asp

[B747 Plumber]

alexmcfire,

It is good to see that the real owner of this aircraft (Imad Saba) has finally surfaced! I like the part of the article that says, " not due for servicing as it was last serviced in the United States three years ago." I think when they dig deeper they will find that the aircraft was only prepared for a ferry flight to Afghanistan and that was all-no heavy checks!

B747 Plumber

[johnaustin]

Last summer, UTA asked Lebanon to allow an airplane with registration 3X-GDM to fly through Beirut. The request was denied. UTA then asked Lebanon to allow an airplane with registration 3D-FAK to fly through Beirut. This request was initially denied, but later approved.

UTA flew two Boeing 727s. If the one that wasn't allowed to fly through Beirut was 3X-GDM, then the one that was allowed to fly through must have been 3X-GDO. I can't find any information on an airplane with registration 3D-FAK.

Also, I want to find out what happened to 3X-GDM. Supposedly it was leased to Libyan Arab Airlines, but it seems odd to me that an airplane that Lebanon didn't want in its airspace was deemed airworthy enough to go into service for another airline.

In addition, the pilot who thinks he saw N844AA on June 27/28 in Guinea is wrong. It wasn't 3X-GOM, it was 3X-GDM, which had been ferried from the US to Guinea on June 26.

I look forward to comments/criticisms.

[747FOCAL]

johnaustin,

I have access to probably the most complete aircraft databases in the world and unless they reregistered one of the denied aircraft the same day so as to maybe slip by and the databases have not updated yet or they were maybe going to pull the registration after the flight there is no aircraft registered anywhere as 3D-FAK. Now maybe somebody got the registration wrong in the articles, but with so many saying 3D-FAK I find that hard to believe.

Somebody needs a severe beating because I smell a rat. :mad:

[ATC Watcher]

Airman 32 : one of the best piece of advice given , and with humor. I like that..
;)

[4wings]

Memories of Cotonou

Not the first a/c to operate out of Cotonou somewhat overloaded... In 1967-68 about twelve DC6 operated out of there for the International Committee of the Red Cross on the night time relief flights (up to 3 round trips per night) to Uli Ihiala strip in Biafra during the Nigerian Civil War. They would take off from 1730 so as to be crossing the coast back into Nigeria after dark. They were customarily about 4000 lbs overweight, and it was very fortunate the runway there points out to sea (more or less), because they used every inch of it and even a palm tree between it and the beach would have been too much for them. Polyglot aircrews but all maintained (excellently I believe) by Brits from Field Aircraft Services. Sometimes one would be followed by a French Navy Neptune carrying arms - they flew close up behind to use the DC6 radar shadow as cover. I was one of the first Europeans to get to Uli overland at the end of the war and saw the very moving little cemetery of some 20 air crew who had crashed there during the airlift (they were all from the Sao Tome lift). Sadly and needlessly the Nigerian Army soon bulldozed it away.

[johnaustin]

Thanks for responding regarding 3D-FAK. I read this in this article:

http://www.dailystar.com.lb/31_12_03/art2.asp

Perhaps there are other articles referencing the same registration number. Elsewhere, I read that the airplane in question had the registration 3D-AAK. Does that exist?

Based on the stories I've read (probably very incomplete picture) I definitely feel as though there has been some funny business with the registrations. Where is 3X-GDM now? And, how did Boeing determine that the airplane that crashed was 3X-GDO, and can they confirm it was N862AA?

I am surprised that the crash in Egypt is getting so much press, yet the crash in Benin disappeared pretty quickly (following the missing plane stories).

I have to admit I'm intrigued because I think it's a juicy story, so I should apologize if it seems as though I'm making light of the tragedy. No disrespect meant.

[alexmcfire]

Johnaustin, I think this going to be runing for a long time in the Lebanese press. Anyway, today Dailystar says you could use
Swaziland for place of registration for as little as 1KUS$ and
get away with a lot.

[747FOCAL]

If it was registered as 3D-AAk it is either too new for me to see, fake or a mistake. The closest you get is:

3D-AAJ:

AIRPLANE ID: PG037 SERIAL NO: 19075 AMRE REGISTRY: N9037U
BAS-EFF: P2581 LINE NO: 97 ORIGINAL REGISTRY: N9037U
ENG-EFF: MODEL-DASH 737-200 CURRENT REGISTRY: 3D-AAJ
MODEL: 737-222 MODEL CONFIG: 200 COUNTRY OF REGISTRY SWAZILAND
MODEL DESCRIPTION: PASSENGER
ENGINE-MFG: PRATT & WHITNEY COMMERCIAL ENGINE BUSINESS ENGINE DESCRIPTION: JT8D
IN SERVICE: YES


:ok:

[littlepuddlejumper]

747 check your pm's...:)

[johnaustin]

From published reports:

...Beirut - The serial number of a Boeing 727 that crashed on December 25 in Benin killing 141 passengers may have been altered, Lebanese state prosecutor Adnan Adoum said on Thursday.

The change possibly was made to disguise the plane as one with approval to land in Lebanon, the destination of the doomed flight, Adoum said. The serial number pulled from the wreck was identical with another aircraft, he told reporters...

[johnaustin]

Here is a photo of what appears to be 3X-GDM. I have no idea when it was taken, but you can see it looks extremely different from 3X-GDO, the airplane that supposedly crashed on December 25, 2003.

Based on these photos, wouldn't it be easy to determine which airplane actually crashed?

http://727.assintel.com.br/acid/images/3x-gdm_01.jpg

[lomapaseo]

Sorry link doesn't work

Do you have a www address/

[126,7]

Link works fine for me.
This is the website: http://727.assintel.com.br

[lomapaseo]

All I get is an error message saying it can not be found.

Prolly because it is not a compete link for those of us not on your system.

Can anybody else help?

[gear down props forward]

The 727 Data Center site (http://727.assintel.com.br) is reachable only if on the correct internet routing, as I tried it sitting in Orlando and no luck. I switched to a server in Miami and successfully found it.

Anyhow, while I was on that site, I actually found more than one picture pertaining to 3X-GDM and copied them to a server where they can be found, if http://727.assintel.com.br does not have a route from your computer location. It seems the 727 Data Center is a news site? I cannot read the language of the captions so I am unsure. It is an interesting site; as far as I can figure, it is a picture repository of worldwide 727 incidents and accidents?

Here, I have located the pictures of 3X-GDM from the "727 Data Center" as well they had 2 pictures of N862AA both flying as AAL and when stripped of AAL livery, sitting in Mojave, perhaps:


http://vei.twu.net/pics/3x-gdm/3x-gdm-thm.jpg (http://vei.twu.net/pics/3x-gdm)

(click the picture or click http://vei.twu.net/pics/3x-gdm)

Enjoy.

Gear down props forward

And if someone cares about the legal b.s.: I do not claim ownership of these pictures, just simply located them so interested persons may be able to see them if they cannot reach the original location. If there is something about copying these pictures, then I am unable to read it due different language informing so.

[littlepuddlejumper]

Prosecutor implies coverup in plane crash

http://washingtontimes.com/upi-breaking/20040115-093554-6002r.htm

BEIRUT, Lebanon, Jan. 15 (UPI) -- Lebanon's state prosecutor hinted of a possible coverup in the plane that crashed in the sea off the west African state of Benin Christmas Day.

The disaster left 130 dead, including 83 Lebanese nationals.

"All government departments concerned are coordinating among each other and cooperating with the judiciary," Adnan Addoum told Lebanon's Daily Star. "But it is strange how pieces of information are coming to us in bits and pieces."

Addoum warned "measures will be taken by the judiciary if something seems to be not right."

He also accused Guinea, where the plane is registered, of not cooperating with the Lebanese investigation.

Addoum said he asked the Lebanese Embassy in London for the whereabouts of Darwish Khazem, whose father is the owner of the plane.

Khazem was among the few who survived the crash. Flight-data recordings showed he asked the pilot to take off in spite of his complaint about exceeding the allowed weight limit.

The chairman of Lebanon's Public Works, Transport, Energy and Water Committee, Mohammed Qabbani, has said the reason for the crash was overload

French check Benin black boxes

14/01/2004 07:59 - (SA)

http://www.news24.com/News24/Africa/News/0,,2-11-1447_1469017,00.html

Cotonou - The voice and data recorders from a Boeing 727 that crashed in the west African state of Benin on Christmas Day have been sent to France for examination, police sources said Tuesday.

A Boeing 727 operated by Union des Transports Africains (UTA), which is registered in Guinea, crashed into the sea on takeoff from Cotonou, the main city in Benin, killing 139 of the 161 people on board. Most of the passengers were Lebanese expatriates returning home for the holidays.
A police source in Cotonou told journalists that the black boxes were sent at the weekend to Paris for examination. France sent experts to its former colony following the crash, but Benin does not have the technology to decipher data on flight recorders.

Benin, with the assistance of Lebanon, has launched a full-scale investigation into the crash, the worst in the history of both Beninese and Lebanese civil aviation.

'Eight tons overweight'

Several unofficial sources suggest that the plane was unbalanced and carrying at least eight tons in excess of its capacity, Lebanese media have reported.

Preliminary investigations into the cause of the crash suggest it was due to pilot error.

Meanwhile, Lebanon has told the authorities in Guinea that it wants to question a Lebanese national, allegedly arrested in Conakry recently, in connection with the Christmas Day crash.

"We have received information indicating that Darwish al-Khazem was apprehended in Conakry. We have asked Interpol to inform Guinea that the Lebanese judiciary has decided to interrogate him in connection with the inquiry into the crash in Cotonou," Attorney General Adnane Addoum told the Lebanese press late Monday.

Al-Khazem was among 22 survivors of the crash. One of the bosses of UTA, he was repatriated to Beirut for treatment after the crash but only remained in hospital there briefly before heading to London for talks with Lloyds insurance underwriters, his father Ahmad, a former stake-holder in UTA, has said.

[punkalouver]

Accident report is now out on the French website.

The airplane was registered in Guinea with virtually no government oversight. The company gave virtually no operational oversight. Most documentation and history had to be dug up by the French. One passenger bought their ticket from a checked in pax. Many had not fastened their seat belt.
The flight crew was a bunch of Libyans. The aircraft was well overweight for the length of runway but should have been able to fly if the C of G was not way forward of limits making rotation extremely difficult and resulting in a collision with a localiser building beyond the runway.
Due to weight concerns, the copilot said to a company officer in the jumpseat before taxi, "...you will see when the aircraft will takeoff or we will crash into the sea".
The captain planned that after takeoff they would climb at three degrees maximum to gain airspeed and not turn after takeoff as per clearance(due to worries about stalling??).
We finally get to see what really happens in one of these African accidents. I wish the French had discussed a bit more about the planned takeoff procedure.

http://www.bea-fr.org/docspa/2003/3x-o031225a/pdf/3x-o031225a.pdf In english this time.

Does anyone have links to other obscure crash reports in full detail. Perhaps in South America as well and in English.

[Quod Boy]

This is absolutely unbelievable.
I need another stiff drink.

Unreal!
QB

[broadreach]

Punkalouver,

A distressing read, that. Interesting how politically pro-active BEA sound in this report, too.

Just a thought for you, though: the "bunch of Libyans", several of whom are not around any longer, sound about the same as any "bunch", of any nationality, trying to make a living in apalling circumstances. You might consider empathising as opposed to what appears, in your post, to be disdain based on their nationality.

We also know, don't we, that very similar commercial pressures exist everywhere, even in our own more pristine world, the difference being that here you can't get away all that long with cutting corners, particularly when passengers are involved.

[punkalouver]

Flightcrew of Libyans then. I will keep my disdain to their flying techniques.

[DownIn3Green]

I flew for Trans Air Congo 4 months prior to and up to just after 9/11...

Company was owned by some Lebonese folks and Conteanu was a 2 or 3 times weekly event R/T to Point (of no return) Noire...

Every flight was an argument over how much "freight" was being loaded....

Any "bunch of (name a nationality) pilots" who have flown anywhere in West Africa can recognize this situation...

Unfortunate, but true...