New UK airline Air-Train

[LTNman]

A NEW UK domestic airline wants to set up in Liverpool flying to 41 UK and Irish destinations in direct competition with the rail industry.

Air-Train proposes to use 32 200-seat jets with 16 permanently based here, creating almost 600 jobs at Liverpool John Lennon airport.

But airport chiefs say they do not have the capacity to handle the ambitious scheme and Air-Train founder Neil Bellion says he may now have to take his proposal to Manchester.

Airline consultant Mr Bellion, 39, from Liverpool, is part of a four-strong team aiming to raise £65m on the Alternative Invesment Market, the junior stock market, in the first quarter of 2004 to fund their plans.

He sees no shortage of investors: "Richard Branson recently floated an airline in Australia which was 10-times over subscribed, and easyJet's flotation was also oversubscribed.

"We want to get our funding away in the first quarter of the year and we have to have an airport in our prospectus. Manchester is looking more likely."

Mr Bellion, whose last project was setting up an airline in Kurdistan, said Liverpool has turned down his proposal but offered to help him set up at Finningley in York-shire, a small airport which parent company Peel bought earlier this year.

He said: "I've been talking with Liverpool for two years and I'm still looking at JLA, but they say they don't have the capacity.

"They need to raise their ambitions in terms of their infrastructure and their airport. There's bags of land available."

He added: "They don't want to spend the money on the infrastructure we need. Finningley isn't an option because it won't be open for another year."

He explained the idea behind using Liverpool as a "hub and spoke" operation is because it is ideally located in the middle of the country.

Planes would link virtually all the UK, from Northern Ireland to the tip of Scotland, London and the Channel Islands.

Mr Bellion said: "For example, if someone from Newcastle wanted to get to Birmingham they would fly to Liverpool and change planes onward to Birmingham.

"Liverpool would be like the Crewe station of the air industry."

Tickets would range from as little as £9 one way, with the most expensive return fare priced at £128.

"All fares will be lower than the train," said Mr Bellion.

"Flights will be ticketless. We'd issue smart cards. Passengers would book online and we would credit their smart card for the flight. Electronic readers would then allow their card access at the gate."

He said the business could handle 256 flights a day, carrying 22 million passengers a year, making Liverpool the country's fourth busiest airport.

And because most passengers would not carry luggage there was an opportunity to make Liverpool the UK's premier hub for same day mail and parcel delivery.

Although Air-Train would be a domestic operation he said it represents a fantastic opportunity for Liverpool to take long-haul transatlantic flights and offer passengers onward planes to anywhere in the country.

Mr Bellion says he has already been offered 33 Boeing 757s by Thomas Cook Airlines: "Because of the state of the holiday industry they are using smaller planes."

Liverpool JLA corporate affairs manager Robin Tudor said: "We're talking to a number of start-up operations and would include Neil Bellion in that.

"We do have a problem in that what he is proposing we couldn't accommodate in time.

"Our expansion plans have been agreed with the local authority and we can't divert from that.

"We have to be realistic as to what we can accommodate within the guidelines as agreed with the local authority. There's no point in kidding anybody if we can't cope with it. Parking the planes was a problem in itself.

"Finningley is a new airport with huge potential but we're still in discussions and we are certainly not saying 'go away we're not interested'."

[Flap40]

Looks like a graduate of "The Guvnor school of airline management".

London City, Plymouth & Guernsey should be fun in a 757. Where are they going to find the pax for 3 returns a day to Wick??? Where is Milton Keynes airport? (Cranfield???)

[Wing Commander Fowler]

He sees no shortage of investors: "Richard Branson recently floated an airline in Australia which was 10-times over subscribed, and easyJet's flotation was also oversubscribed.

Errmm....... the major difference here being they were both successful operating airlines at the time they floated. Not good justification for raising venture capital on a new start-up methinks.

Good luck to him however - could only be good news for us geezers!

:ok:

[Ivan Taclue]

How is his airline in Kurdistan doing?

[Wing Commander Fowler]

Fine on the outward legs - begger all on the return I suspect!

[osbo]

http://www.btinternet.com/~neil.bellion/

Go have a gander - best larf I've had in a longgggg time!

[GOLF-INDIA BRAVO]

I fancy a flight from London City to Sligo but not until they get their new 2000 metre parallel runway! lol

Have a good Christmas one and all

From a festive Golf India Bravo ( well I will be when I finish work tonight)

[Wing Commander Fowler]

Hehe... lucky boy GIB - have a goodun... (bloody sleigh rating - biggest mistake of my flyin' career to date!!)

:ouch:

[Air Mail]

Maybe he's gonna buy out and merge all the airlines in the UK to get that network!!

What a laugh!!

[REvans]

Maybe its part of his business plan to expand all airports on his network to accomdate a 757. :confused: :}

[Pistonprop]

I guess it's for real. I got a travel time of 90 mins from BHX to BIG. That's just about right for a Connie on three engines allowing time to circle at dest while they pump the gear down :D

Jets are for kids!

[Boss Raptor]

He's either a raving nutter...or going to leave the rest of us standing with his innovative business model (not going to plan shooting myself just yet)...and/or going to get away with spending others money and time (just like someone else we know) :hmm:

A local LPL ppruner might want to enlighten the local papers as to the possible problems with what is planned...

Danny where are you? it's on your doorstep, are you going to be chief pilot ? :E

[LTNman]

Can’t wait to see a 757 operating out of Sheffield, Plymouth or Swansea. This is all doomed to failure as he isn’t using Luton but then has he renamed Luton as Milton Keynes.:D :O :=

[BEagle]

90 min and £46 day return from Cardiff to Swansea....??

Even the Autoroute 'shortest route' between those aerodromes takes 1:38! Quickest journey between the city centres is 0:49.......

Nice idea if it works though - just look out for all those 757s with missing hubcaps...:E

[the egg man]

i hope he flies the connie,much nicer to look at than the 757.
maybe he can use the airbus moto.
BETTER BY FOUR.he,he,he.::(

[Oscar Duece]

What a dreamer.

Even a five year old knows you can't operate schedules into Biggin. and as for getting a licence to operate into the CI's ?

:O :O :O :O

[Avman]

Hey Egg Man , if you're talking real connies, "Better by three " might be more apt;).

[Pistonprop]

Quite right Avman. The Connie was the finest three-engined airliner of its time :D .

[Maxrev]

33 757's from TC? Wow. Times must be tough.

Now I've got an idea. How about an cut-price airline that operates out of somewhere cheap like, er Luton?

Keep it nice and simple with one type that we know and love, ooh like a 737. Then get yerself a website, a charismatic Greek chairman and a TV documentary to give you acres of free publicity.

Mmm, and a catchy name that implies how simple it is to use your airline, like 'Easy.....er....'

Too late. Doh....! :{

In all seriousness though, we're laughing at how this guy plans on getting a 75 into LCY (shows he's not a spotter!) but it's precisely these crack pots who end up millionaires!

[bagpuss lives]

The Merseyside media and well and truly aware of the ambitious nature of this project I'm sure.

I'd really love to see it in operation but somehow I don't think I ever will ;)

[frimm]

In response to Maxrev, you're right guys like this do end up millionaires!............. it's interesting to note that he intends to raise the capital on AIM (alternative investment market)....... AIM has had it's fair share of crazy dreamers in it's lifetime

What about a 757 into Northolt (for London) LHR, LGW too busy LTN and STN too far out LCY approach too steep........wonder how many of his 757's would end up on the A40? :O

[the egg man]

even better 757 into denham not far from lhr or even redhill not far from lgw,or even reopen hatfield not far from ltn..

[brakedwell]

How about Hendon? I landed there in a Fairey Firefly to pick up a new Bates SD Cap!
Merry Xmas

[Shaggy Sheep Driver]

Even if it happens it won't last. They never do. There will always be a train service from Liverpool to London. The air service between those cities has a rather chequred history which is no use at all to the regular traveller and simply takes a tempory tole on business rail passengers until the air service collapses or the customers get peed off with all the airport hassle and return to the (at present pretty poor) rail service.

Intercity travel in UK should be by high speed rail (as it is in mainland Europe). Not a tarted-up and unreliable Victorian infrastructure - a real, new, high speed railway. It's much quicker door to door, environmentally sound, far more convenient than all that messing around at airports, and it frees slots at the hubs for long distance, where air travel makes sense.

But it requires a long term view and committment from the government, and unlike those on the other side of the channel, no UK government of any colour has ever had the balls to do it.

SSD

[bingoboy]

Is that Manchester (Barton) he is planning to use if Beatleport can't fit him in ?

[miss d point]

i,ve just talked to an engineer who tell's me that the plan is to fit floats to the 757's in question maybe land on the canals in Birmingham ?
but hey folks one hell of a good website.
:p :p :p

[openfly]

This guy is serious..no messing.
In todays Singapore ''Finance Today'', there is a front page article on the project. He is starting the whole operation on the 1st April. Then on the 1st May he is starting his second wave of routes, to include flying 757s between Shoreham, Bembridge, Stapleford Tawney (Stansted South), Cliffe and Perth (Scotland). It also states in the paper that he has ruled out a Heathrow operation as the runways are too short and the LCNs are too low for 757s. It seems he knows what he is talking about.
He has set up a website for aspiring investors www.cuckooland.co.yuk

With good news like this, a Happy New Year to all in the industry.

[Arkroyal]

CVT-EMA in 90 mins! maybe I'll use it to get to work instead of my dreadful 30 minute drive. Can't wait.

:confused:

[IanH]

Frimm,

I have seen a B757 in Northolt !

It was one of the USAF ones.........

When it departed, it lifted very quickly by all accounts.......

Ian H

[CargoOne]

hmm... Neil? I've heard this name before... ;)
Big plans, a lot of publicity etc... Ended in prison.

Would be nice to see him on AIM trying to get people to recognise him as Mr. Branson no 2.

Apart from all of these funny things, even Ryanair not declaring themselves as a direct competitior to railways, although they actually are on certain routes.

The biggest problem is a number of stations. Sure it would be nice to see the runway at Victoria or at Horsham. Railroad covers most of the places, while you need to spend quite some time driving to airports. Unfortunately I haven't seen even heliports there...

[miss d point]

:p :p :p

maybe I can catch it to get to work, maybe lands at the end of our street !!!!!!

:p :p :p

[matblack]

Whatever the outcome is with this particular project I do feel that someone is missing an opportunity to create a low cost airline that creates more uk domestic city links. I travel extensively as part of my job and it really is annoying that I can't find a quick, easy way to grab a flight from say Liverpool to Humberside cost effectively. Normally I lose 6 ours + in the car in pure travel time on this trip which means an overnight stay is almost inevitable in order to spend a full day at my customer. If I could hop on to a plane and pick up a cheap rental car at the other end it would drastically improve things. I can't beleive I'm alone in this situation and with company car tax being much more expensive these days it would also provide a reason for opting out of the car. Maybe the govt should subsidise such a project as part of the initiative to improve alternative transportation from the car? I live in the North West and as such I have relatively limited options for low cost travel within the uk.

[dfearns]

Have you heard of Charlotte, Raliegh-Durham NC and Richmond VA? These are three US airports that modeled themselves as "Hub & Spoke" airports with, I might add, phenominal success. I believe this is the model that Mr. Bellion is basing his proposal on.

I would hope that those entrusted with the business of expanding traffic at LPL have some knowledge of the benefits of "Hub & Spoke" operations.

I was filled with apprehension when I heard Neil Pakey announce that "Liverpool Airport had no plans to extend the runway, at present"!


http://icliverpool.icnetwork.co.uk/0100news/0100regionalnews/content_objectid=13741523_method=full_siteid=50061_headline=-City%2Dmay%2Dlose%2Dout%2Dover%2Dnew%2Dairline-name_page.html

[trainer too 2]

Look deafears, next time you go spotting at the airport at let's say Manchester you will see that they among other things they already try to be a hub and spoke. Hub and spoke only works with a large (relative) uncongested airport with lots of connections by Major intercontinental airlines. Not regionals as the time saving does not exist on short hops.

The main power of the Low Cost Carriers is that they take out all the connecting hassles of paxs and luggage thus cost. Hub and spoke for regional traffic is totally on it's way out for smaller carriers like Swiss or smaller airports that tried to do it. In the US American is moving away from the wave model (which is the fundament for any hub and spoke) at Dallas because of all rhe negative consequences of delays througout the system.

Thew airports you mention in the states are exactly the ones under threat from point to point low cost carriers as the time and money saving aspect pulls away paxs. So next time do not believe any american press hype about how good the airport is.. Read the press releases of JetBlue, Air Tran and Soutwest and you will find out where the market is going





:ok: :ok:

[symphonyangel]

DFearns - If the airtrain project were a goer, it wouldn't need any runway extension at Liverpool - as it would serve the hoards of people waiting to take 757s to places like Newcastle, Birmingham and Humberside? - a 757 could even make it to the East Coast of the US from Liverpool without a runway extension so you need not worry about this being a limitation as far as Air Train is concerned, perhaps its limitation is finding millionaires wishing to back it

[charterguy]

matblack wrote:

I travel extensively as part of my job and it really is annoying that I can't find a quick, easy way to grab a flight from say Liverpool to Humberside cost effectively.

I suspect it's unlikely that you will find another 150 pax wishing to travel to Humberside with you, so why not consider chartering a small air taxi. I know they are getting a bit long in the tooth, but they should get you there for around £250 if you can find another three passengers.

Alternatively you may wish to try the following routing, using 'scheduled' carriers: -

Liverpool - Isle of Man - Dublin - Amsterdam - Humberside.

CG

[REvans]

Yes I think the idea would go further if they used small turbo prop aircraft and forgot about the LPL hub and spoke idea so reduce journey times. Hopefully thier fares would be cheaper than Easterns too.

[AOG-YYZ]

Well if nothing else, this guy has drawn attention and given free publicity to Liverpool John Lennon Airport. I have read reference to his scheme in Canada's 'Globe & Mail' also in 'USA Today' and the 'New York Times', Singapore's 'Straits Times' and Australia's 'Australian'. Not to mention all the publicity on web-sites like this one. What is it they say, "There is no such thing as bad publicity"?

[Eurekadelta]

Hate to be negative - but to me this looks remarkably like somebody's final piece of coursework for some kind of 'Web design for business' degree/course.

From the website it looks like they have spent plenty of time making it look nice, but no time at all at an Airline Business model to back it up (nor even done basic research, as proven by the inclusion of Milton Keynes and London City in the list of airports, to name but two).

I wouldn't mind at all being proven wrong - but this has the feel of an 'April Fools Day' prank !!

[Meeb]

This bloke with the Air-Train thing has just copied the idea from 'Oniva', but replaced an ATR72 operation with 757's, probably to attract press attention and capture public imagination. Maybe he is connected with Oniva and once the interest is there the ATR's will make an appearance.

The project known as 'Oniva' was a very sound one, ATR's are the right aircraft, jets would not work with the business model.

[dwlpl]

Where have ONIVA published their information?

[Caslance]

There's a little about them here. (http://www.pilotinterviews.com/JobResearchAirlineDetail.asp?AirlineID=943) Not much, I'll grant you.

My understanding is that they are/were proposing to operate to a number of French destinations from London Gatwick.

[chiglet]

camel,
"Single Engine Jets"
I think [stand to be corrected] that "Single Engine 'Turbines'" aka Cessna Caravan type a/c etc is what you mean.
Licence is "just about" forthcoming [hopefully]
Sorry, but not fully up to speed
watpiktch

[dwlpl]

Yes, it does not say much.

When ONIVA first came to light it was a south-east England AND a north-west England based airline.

[Caslance]

Actually, I can see where a Gill Airways-style outfit with ATR 42/72 equipment could prosper operating domestic and near-European routes from Liverpool, so long as the price structure was right.

There does seem to be a gap in the market, given the remarks made earlier about the loads on long-distance rail services from Lime Street.

[dwlpl]

Yes you are right.

There is a gap to be filled for air travel from Liverpool because long distance train services from the city have been cut back to help alleviate rail congestion!

[chiglet]

caslance,
I think that a Dan-Air [Nord 262 type] Service would do the trick. Gill Air [only] had Super Sheds [SH360s] and G159s, [think that they were "Brown Air" a/c, though]
Memory, slightly hazy...ducks down....:uhoh:
Seriously , I think that there is a potential for a "Minor Airfield" Bus Stop Service. [Newcastle..Liverpool..Birmingham..Southhampton..etc] sort of thing.
Unfortunately, it will never [again] happen , due to "slot restraints" at the various airfeilds.
watp,iktch

[Caslance]

No, chiglet, Gill Airways were based at Newcastle and operated ATR 42s, ATR 72s and Fokker 100s. Oh, and a couple of Super Sheds for good measure.

That's the type of operation I had in mind.

Mentioning the Dan Air "Bus Stop" service brings back lots of memories for me - it used to fly low right over my parents' house twice a day.