Wrong people in the seats?

[The Swinging Monkey]

Gentlemen,

I hope this is the right forum for this question...
Is there a CAA and/or FAA requirment for the pax sitting in Emergency exit seats to be at least 'fit & able' ??

I ask the question because I recently flew long haul and requested an emergeny exit seat (I'm 6' 4")
I explained that I am current RAF aircrew (AWACS), and was familiar with the slides, doors etc.
I was told the seats had already been allocated and the nice lady was very sorry.

When I embarked on the aircraft, I was horrified to find that both seats at the two emergency exits, were occupied by very elderly couples, two of whome needed walking sticks to get about.

I know the chances of a mishap are very remote, but it does happen, and I for one, would like to think that the people who MAY be required to open those dooras in an emergency, are at least going to be able to stand up and operate them.

Any comments??

Kind regards
The Swinging Monkey

[BlueEagle]

In the airlines that I have worked for it has always been a requirement to have fit, able bodied pax in the emergency exit rows. What does happen is that ticketing will seat passengers, not always realising that the seats they are allocating to the aged and infirm are the exit seats, (though their computer screen should tell them), and then some cabin crew are reluctant to move them out.

A friendly letter to the airline wouldn't go amiss.

[The Swinging Monkey]

Thanks BlueEagle,

I've done that but not yet had a responce - I'll keep you posted.
Are you saying therefore that it is NOT a requirment? I felt sure that the good old Health & safety police would have had a say in the matter?

Many thanks

The Swinging Monkey

[BlueEagle]

I'm just a bit out of touch with CAA/JAR/FAA etc. requirements now but there will be someone on this forum quite soon who will know, I feel sure!:D

[jalguy]

The Uk requires a discrete safety brief to be given to thos occupying the exit-seat rows.

CAP 360 Part 1 used to cover it.

The rules preclude disable, blind, deaf, elderly, frail, children and infants (accompanied or not), deportees, prisoners-in-escort, and obese passengers.

The CAA Flight Operations Cabin Safety Department at Gatwick would be a good place to start.

[newswatcher]

To expand on jalguy, from a CAA Safety Publication:

"The CAA requires that UK airlines have procedures to ensure that passengers are seated where, in the event that an emergency evacuation is required, they may best assist and not hinder evacuation from the aeroplane.

Only those passengers who appear reasonably fit, strong and able to assist the rapid evacuation of the aeroplane in an emergency should be allocated seats which permit direct access to emergency exits. Persons of reduced mobility should not be allocated seats where their presence could impede the crew in their duties, obstruct access to emergency equipment or impede the emergency evacuation of the aeroplane.

The following categories of passengers are among those who should not be allocated to, or directed to, seats which permit direct access to emergency exits :

Passengers suffering from obvious physical, or mental handicap to the extent that they would have difficulty in moving quickly if asked to do so.
Passengers who are either substantially blind or substantially deaf to the extent that they might not readily assimilate printed or verbal instructions given.
Passengers who because of age or sickness are so frail that they have difficult in moving quickly.
Passengers who are so obese that they would have difficulty in moving quickly or reaching and passing through the adjacent emergency exit.
Children (whether accompanied or not) and infants.
Deportees or prisoners in custody.
Passengers with animals.

[Onan the Clumsy]

Passengers who are so obese that they would have difficulty in moving quickly or reaching and passing through the adjacent emergency exit. :uhoh:

[wbryce]

when i was on a BA flight a few years back (i was 16) going to manchester on a Dash 8, i asked for a window seat and the nice lady said the only row left was the emergency isle and that i had to be 18 to sit at that window!

It did spoil my flight down as i had to sit with an mid aged man who had the window shutter down the whole flight!

BA surely has a policy for it.

[FWA NATCA]

Swinging Monkey,

I have seen passengers moved out of the Overwing Exit row seats because they were deemed by the flight attendants to be unable to open and assist fellow passengers in an emergency.

I have also seen passengers say "NO" when they were asked if they felt able and comfortable with the potential of having to open and assist passengers in the even of an emergency be moved out of those exit rows.

Mike

[lomapaseo]

Most of the time I sit in the exit row and generally find that the other passengers are as fit and able as myself (ignoring age as being too subjective to this discussion).

Quite often I an quizzed by the FA along with my fellow passengers about my ability and willingness to handle the situation in an emergency. I typically answer that I'll be the first one out the door and tha the damn door is going out on the wing where it belongs and not to clutter up the seat wher it's sure to be oushed off by someone collapsing the back of the seat trying to get out without exiting onto the aisle first.

Well today on Song they never bothered to ask us who were seated in the emergency overwing exit row, else they would have heard that their seat card instructions didn't match the instructions posted on the emergency door.

But what the heck nobody reads those two instructions anyway do they?

[SydGirl]

The Swinging Monkey,

Although I'm not from the UK, I would be immensely surprised if frail and/or infirm people were legally permitted to sit in an emergency exit row.

Perhaps if this happens again you might alert the Flight Attendant and just politely ask the question? Sometimes during boarding these things can get missed, though of course this is no excuse!

Since this is the CRM forum ;) it should be prudent of me to say that as a passenger you could have managed upwards, as if there were (heaven forbid) any accident on your flight; your life could be in peril due to these infirm people sitting at the exit rows hindering an evacuation!

I am not offended in the slightest if people voice their concern about issues such as this - if there are problems in the cabin, the passengers are the eyes and ears - don't be afraid to use them!

My 2 cents.
SG
:}

[The Swinging Monkey]

To everyone who has contributed - my thanks to you all.
As I explained, I have yet to receive a reply from the airline concerned, but I will keep you informed.

Perhaps, in hindsight, I should have been a little more forthright during the boarding, and if it happens again, I may well point it out to the CA.

My thanks for your time and for taking the trouble to respond.
Best wishes and a Merry Christmas to you all.

Kind regards
The Swinging Monkey

[CD]

Canadian Advisory Circular - Passenger Seating Requirements (http://www.tc.gc.ca/CivilAviation/commerce/circulars/AC0181.htm)

A passenger’s presence would be considered to adversely affect the safety of passengers and crew members during an emergency evacuation where he/she does not meet the criteria below:

Passengers seated at exits:

* must be physically capable of using the exit;
* must be capable of understanding the printed and spoken emergency instructions;
* must be able to visually determine if the exit is safe to open;
* must have sufficient mobility, strength and dexterity to reach, operate and stow (or otherwise dispose of) the emergency exit;
* must be able to receive aural information from the crew and to orally communicate that information to other passengers;
* must be of a minimum age (as established by the air operator) to ensure that he/she has the physical, cognitive and sensory capacity to operate an emergency exit;
* must not be responsible for another person as this can hinder the opening of the emergency exit; and
* must not have a condition which might cause them harm by opening the exit.




United States FAR § 121.585 Exit seating (http://www.airweb.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/rgFAR.nsf/0/8C8BFE565B506160852566EF006DAD15?OpenDocument&Highlight=121.585)

[The Swinging Monkey]

Ladies & Gentlemen,

Thank you for taking the time to respond - just a quick update:
Wrote to the Chf Exec of said airline (nice Aussie chap!) but alas, only got a poor and tardy reply from one of his minions, although it was accompanied by 3 bottles of 'fine wine' 'ah yes' I hear say, 'the old fine wine trick'
Anyway, with all thats going on at the moment, perhaps the chap has other, more important things on his mind?
However, I suppose it could be argued that, especially now, is the time for the right people to be in the seats??

A happy and safe new year to you all.
Kind regards
The Swinging Monkey

[SydGirl]

The Swinging Monkey,

Great to hear of your update. Sorry that said Aussie did not take the time to reply personally, though at least you can console yourself in your three bottles of free plonk.

Cheers! *clink*
SG
:}

[411A]

oooooh, three bottles of plonk.:ok:

'Tis called, excellent customer relations.

The ChExec and his staff are to be congratulated...for sure!:ok: :ok: :ok: