Which Flying School at Biggin?

[harris_rob]

Hi Everyone,

I just took my first trial flying lesson today out of Biggin Hill and really loved it and wish to continue. I flew with Classair and they were very freindly and nice. The aircraft they fly are 2 Robins and one Tomahawk.

My question is this - has anyone here had experience in learning to fly from Biggin and if so what school of flying did they use? As I only know Classair, are they a good one? Or should I look at bigger flying schools? For example, I looked at Cabair but their prices seemed really hight in comparision. Also, are the Robin and the Tomahawk good planes to learn with or would it be better to learn on a more common aircraft such as a Cesna or Piper?

Any advice or shared experiences would be greatly appreciated.

Many Thanks in advance!

Rob.

[Timothy]

If you like Iris' style then I would stick with her. She obviously doesn't have as many aircraft as some of the other schools, and she doesn't wear epaulettes to look grand and professional, but her Robins are neat and well looked after, perform well and have very good visibility.

Her availability seems to be a little limited, but when she has a slot she "makes friends" with her students and ensures that they get the very best personal service and attention.

Certainly I always advise people to go to Classair if they want a clubby atmosphere rather than a school one.

W

[727 exec]

I learned at Surrey and Kent...many moons ago - and I enjoyed it then.

Her Indoors has been learning there since earlier this year (on the Cessna 152), and it's been a good experience to date. She has come from a non aviation background, and found them friendly and welcoming - with no silly uniforms.

My brother now wants to learn, and I know where I'll be comfortable sending him...

Have a wander in, and see if it feels like home.

[18greens]

The choice of a school is a personal thing. If you liked the school and you get on with the instructor then stick with it.

Different schools have different styles that suit different peoples requirements. Its a matter of finding the combination that suits you. Some people like the instructors turned out smartly, for others its not a priority. If you are determined to be a small strip flyer go to a small strip, if your plans are more towards the airlines a larger school, rather than a club, may be more appropriate.

Large schools tend to have a larger fleet so you are not as badly affected if one aircraft goes tech, or needs its annual. On the other hand in a one aircraft school you will always get the same aircraft.

Another point to make is different schools charge differently, so the prices are not always directly comparable. Some schools charge on hobbs or tacho which means you are paying from engine start to shutdown, others charge take off to landing plus ten minutes. Taxi times at Biggin can exceed 20 minutes.

Remember also you are not bound to one school/instructor for the whole course. Sometimes personalities/teaching styles do not match. Too many people give up rather than trying a different school or instructor.

The biggest thing is you have decided to learn and good luck. I hope you have as wonderful a time learning as I did. Feel free to PM me if you have any specific questions now or later.

[owenlars]

I learned at Surrey and Kent about 10 years ago and they were great (actually still a member of the club). I agree you need to talk to all of them and find out who you are comfortable with. You then need to weigh up the pros and cons of plane/instructor availability. There is little that is more frustrating then sitting around on a glorious Staurday mroning because a plane (or an instructor) has gone 'tech'

[Penguina]

Having moved to SE London recently, I'm beginning to think flying would be a lot less of an upheaval if I moved airfields and flew from Biggin.

I am on a tight budget but don't particularly mind changing type and would put up with the landing fees for convenience, I think. However, can anyone tell me who is the cheapest renter based at Biggin?

Not really off-topic actually, as Rob will probably hire at least for a little while after he qualifies, right? :O

[Readability5]

I learnt at Kingair (now part of BHSF - owned by Cabair). Great training organisation and fantastic instructors - though it is a route to the airlines for most of them so I doubt if any are still there. IMO they are geared for training and that means they're not all that PPL hire friendly once you get the brown book.

I also flew with Chris Angelis at Tropair (the red hangar). Great bloke, wonderful to fly with and well worth talking to.

Biggin is busy and controlled so is great for getting the procedures and RT right, but it does make things like circuits expensive. You might want to consider another airfield on the outskirts - but it's not the school or airfield that's important, it's you relationship with the instructor that counts. Good luck.

[djk]

I flew one lesson out of Biggin Hill way back in February 2001, wasn't that keen on it as I spent a fair bit of the lesson taxiing rather than actually being up in the air, so I opted to do my training at Rochester, small airfield, nice friendly bunch there and you only spend a couple of minutes on the ground
Although Biggin Hill is a good place to fly from if you really want to brush up on your R/T

The landing fees can cripple you especially when you're doing your circuits.

[SteveR]

Landing fees at Biggin are utterly ludicrously - deliberately so I believe - I daresay your potential schools have had to quietly leave out this contribution to your expenses to avoid you fainting on the spot.

Steve (Rochester based and evangelising) R

[harris_rob]

Thanks for all your advice everyone. Interestingly enough, Classair include the landing fee's in their cost which seems to be very good value. If you look at Cabair etc - they seem to add the landings on seperatly which bumps the cost up a huge amount!
Class Air price is (weekends) £5300 for the 45 hours including examinantions and all landings home and away. The equivilant with Cabair is about £1000 more!! So everybody, is this a good price? How much was Tropair?

Interesting to hear back from you all and Thanks for your quick replies - it's been really helpfull!

The only other question I have is should i learn on something like a Cesna which is more common? I think there is only 3 Robin's in the country so I'm unlikely to always hire these? Or is the transition between aircraft, say from a Robin to a Piper for example, pretty painless?

Cheers!

[A and C]

What ever you do dont go to Cabair. The whole set up is overly expencive and restrictive.

[SteveR]

The only other question I have is should i learn on something like a Cesna which is more common? I think there is only 3 Robin's in the country so I'm unlikely to always hire these? Or is the transition between aircraft, say from a Robin to a Piper for example, pretty painless?

Pretty painless.

You're getting a single engine piston licence, and you'll be qualified to fly any SEP when you get the ticket, with no further mandatory instruction. You could take this as guidance from the CAA about how hard it is to fly different SEP's.....

Of course, just about every group, school and/or insurer will require you to have at least a checkout in their a/c before they let you fly it, and probably a bit of instruction from their preferred instructor.

Basically, it's a question of reading the POH thoroughly, and then having an older and wiser person show you where the knobs and dials are, what speeds to use, and any vices the a/c has.


There are a fair few Robins in the UK - many in group ownership which is (IMHO) the sensible way to fly after you qualifiy.

Steve R

[Evo]

Took me an hour or so to convert from a PA-28 to a Robin 2160. Going the other way wouldn't be a problem either - but after flying a decent Robin, a Cessna will feel like a real dog... :)

[Tango Oscar]

I learn't at Surrey & Kent, and also have praise for it. They we're very laid back, but the standard of instruction was high. I was told the Tomahawk was a good mount to learn in as they are somewhat unstable compared to a Cessna. I now fly a Robin, and had no problems converting.

Enjoy !!

[skin'n'bones]

I learnt with Civilair fairly recently, they have a great bunch of instructors and the prices were reasonable. Agree with SteveR about the landing fees! :{

VAT and Landing fees were included in the package.

Chris