No speed restrictions?

[Lump Jockey]

I was jump seat the othe day into CPH with SAS, where we flew at 320KIAS below FL100. What is the norm in these situations when "no speed" has been called, if we take this example for instance? What's the story at LHR too? (Or around the London area, sorry!)

[Red Four]

Blanket restriction of 250 knots below FL100 in London TMA

[Sir Richard]

LHR departures, ATC regularly use the phrase "No speed control" once you are radar identified....your choice of speed below FL100.

LHR arrivals, speeds higher than 250kts can be requested and are often allowed - traffic permitting.

p.s. I have not been there for over 12 months, so it may have changed.

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

<<Blanket restriction of 250 knots below FL100 in London TMA>>

Presumably introduced since I retired? Pity - I used to love watching them do 450kts plus hammering down from CLN to the ILS in the early morning. And, coming off BIG for 27L I once asked an Air France his speed "250kts" he replied. I said "OK, no ATC speed control".... he said "Roger, increasing"!!

[brimstone]

Bren - In fact nothing has changed in that respect since you left. Do you remember that Trident you worked through Bovingdon whose groundspeed was 540kts.

[eyeinthesky]

The one-liner responses so far are a little confusing. There are a several of points to consider:

1) In Class A Airspace in the UK there is no 'blanket restriction of 250 kts below FL100'. There are speed limits based upon certain criteria, such as the need to ensure one departure does not catch another on the same route, or to ensure that traffic running into the holding fix is not doing 300kts and taking up the whole sky as it turns into the hold.

2) Broadly speaking, there are arrival and departure speed restrictions. On departure, there is an automatic speed restriction of 250kts MAX. This is to prevent the 757 hoovering the A340 ahead until the radar controller can provide another form of separation. To have the speed restriction lifted does not mean you HAVE to accelerate. Indeed, if by doing so you will be unable to make SID or enroute level restrictions then you should not do so. All it means is that ATC have no reason to restrict your speed.

3) Arrival restrictions may take to form of SLP (Speed Limit Points) which are marked on the Arrival charts. For example, you are expected to be 250kts by 12 nm before LAM into Heathrow. This is to allow both reasonable sequencing if appropriate or to ensure you stay within the holding area.

So, in Class A in the UK, provided you can make touchdown speed at the threshold you can, with ATC's permission, do 340kts all the way down to final if you wish.

As an aside, ATC cannot 'approve' speeds above 250kts below FL 100 in Class G, as it is a national speed restriction and has important benefits in the 'see and avoid' principle.

[250 kts]

It's nice to get a few mentions in all this.

250 kts.xx:O :O :O

[radar707]

There is also a UK restriction in Class E airspace (Areas in the Scottish TMA - especially between EGPF and EGPH) where the 250kts below fl100 applies, EVEN if ATC sau "No ATC speed restriction" this does NOT remove this restriction, it merely means that ATC do not require you to fly at a specific speed.

[DFC]

Small point, but the maximum speed for entry to and while in the hold is 230Kt. 250Kt will not keep the aircraft within the holding area.

Regards,

DFC

[eyeinthesky]

DFC: Sorry, I took that as read. That's why the 250 kt limit into LAM is 12 nm before the holding fix to allow you to slow to holding speed (which in the UK is 210kts below FL140!) by the time you enter the hold.

[DFC]

Thanks eyeinthesky,

Our book (Jepp) says 230 Kt except for the London TMA wich is 220Kt mas up to FL140.

Do ou have an AIP reference so that we can get the info changed?

Regards,

DFC