Helmets - Should you? and Which?

[Ewan Whosearmy]

I just wanted to know what the general feeling is amongst CPL(H)'s towards wearing Flight Helmets in civilian flight operations.

The CPL's I have spoken to share a common indifference towards a relatively inexpensive piece of kit which could save lives and/or eyesight in an emergency.

Whilst I am aware that in the UK at least the emergency services mandate the use of Flight Helmets (ALpha?), no one else seems to be that fussed.

Gven the benefits on offer, is it not time that there is an initiative to start thinking 'safety first'?

[HOGE]

Yes, if only for the hearing protection. Mind you, then all the passengers will want one.

[PurplePitot]

My 'Safety First' campaign starts with not crashing in the first place. I know where your coming from but on a hot day sat in a jetbox in shirtsleeves, open neck and helmet! I cannot see it ever catching on. Some of the young ladies on their way to Ladies Day at Ascot might definately have something to say about it!

[HOGE]

Especially, if you were only wearing shirtsleeves, open neck and a helmet. I find trousers useful when in public!!

[fishboy]

What about the safety of passengers? If a nice big bird comes through the windshield at 100 kts, it might be nice to be wearing a helmet.
Always difficult when dealing with VIP transport and they are asking: where's mine? or: why is that necessary?

[ShyTorque]

I have only ever flown without a helmet when for some reason one has not been available.

I spent the whole time feeling vulnerable and uncomfortable without one, even at OATs up to the high 30's Centigrade and high humidity.

It's probably just what you are used to.

Oops sorry disregard. Just reread the original post - I'm not a CPL. Why don't ATPLs count?

[This message has been edited by ShyTorque (edited 20 November 2000).]

[PurplePitot]

Sorry, I meant that some of those young ladies might object strongly to sticking their expensive hairdo into a smelly, greasy, sweaty, distinctly used helmet.......

[HOGE]

a wirebrush and dettol will cure that, purplepitot!

[floppyjock]

Fishboy. I agree, I had a birdstike in a gazelle a few years ago. A sparrow got me right between the eyes. Luckily I had just put my visor down. I was sat in the back at the time. It went between the two crew in the front without touching them and I was covered in bird guts and perspex.

[rotorque]

I reckon that a distinction should be made as the type of work involved. Most pilots in Australia will use a helmet for airial work applications. For offshore, police or emergency work it is also the norm.

There is often some contention as to whether a scenic flight or general charter pilot should wear a helmet. The thinking is that it may scare the **** out of the passengers if they see the driver wearing a bone dome. I tend to agree. but I guess accidents do happen.

Personally I don't wear a helmet on a normal passenger carrying charter, but find it uncomfortable not to wear one when I have a door off.

As to the temperature issue, we were often working in 45 degree heat chasing cows around and I never once thought that I would be more comfortable without the helmet on. Obviously the type of helmet plays a vital role in this.

Some contractual jobs require the passengers to be wearing helmets. On large government contracts the pax are issued with their own, and it is then 'unusual' if you don't wear one.

Purplepitot - No disrespect intended, but everyone 'plans' not to crash in the first place. Some day, you and I may not have the choice.
With that in mind, if a scenic pilot wants to wear a helmet then go for it.

cheers

[Randy_g]

My own personal preference is to wear a helmet whenever I'm flying, no matter what operation or weather. It offers me better hearing protection, as well as protecting whats in my skull. (although some might argue that there isn't much in there to protect. :) ) I've worn it during sightseeing flights, and have never had anyone comment. I have been asked by a few customers why I wear the bucket. I answered them that although the risk of an accident is very low, I prefer to reduce my personal risk a little lower. I also mention that it offers me better hearing protection. If my wearing a helmet is going to terrify a passenger, then they were more than likely scared in the first place.

Yeah it is hotter than a ball cap, but I can deal with that. In the winter it is much more comfortable, and in fact, it beats the hell out of a toque. (woolen cap to those who don't speak Canadian. ;) ) Frankly, I find headsets uncomfortable when I wear one for any length of time. I guess I'm just a big pansy. :) Oh well I can live with that.

--------------------------------------------

A professional isn't determined by the aircraft they fly, but by their attitude, and by their actions.

Randy_G

[Ewan Whosearmy]

ShyTorque:

ATPL's do of course count! I was just being lazy

BTW, where are you based (US?)

PurplePitot:

Point taken about not crashing in the first place, but there may come a day when you have no choice. Similarly birds (of the featherd variety) tend to have a habit of not being considerate enough to get out of your way on EVERY occasion.

I can understand that pax with fluffy hair-do's aren't going to want to wear a bone dome, but let that be at least a CHOICE for them to make.

FloppyJock:

This is exactly the kind of example that gives food for thought

[The Nr Fairy]

I did hear of an accident in the RAF where a Whirlwind or Wessex, on start up for an engine test or some other similar low risk task, developed such triffic ground resonance that it shook itself to bits, before even getting airborne.

The reporter got clocked on the back fo the head with a bit of blade, and mentioned that if he hadn't had his bone dome on he wouldn't have been writing the article.

That said, I don't wear one, but I guess in a Robbo you pays your money and takes your choice . . .

------------------
I got bored with "WhoNeedsRunways"

[4Rvibes]

Nr Fairy,You fly a Robbo you need a WHOLE BODY HELMET (in titanium if poss)
A wee joke fairy-boy
4R

[offshoreigor]

EwanWhoesarmy, I found this in a back issue of TC's Aviation Safety Vortex:

Are Helmets a Good Investment?
You Bet They Are!

All hazards were identified in a thorough reconnaissance of the job site prior to landing and the identified hazards were again reviewed on the ground before starting the work. The sky was clear, wind calm, temperature 12°C and humidity 32%.

The spray job was in a rectangular 40-acre field with a power line on the west side running north and south and a row of mature trees on the north and south sides running east and west. A barbed wire fence surrounded the entire field.

The field was seeded to corn and the crop was about three inches high. The circumference of the field is bordered by a 30- to 40- ft. strip of barley. The chemical used that day was MCPA and we were using an ultra-low-volume application.

All equipment was tested before starting the work and both the helicopter and spray gear were operating as expected.

I flew one orientation pass from south to north (the longest side of the rectangular field), noting the power line, which was about 50 ft. away on my left. I turned right, away from the power line, and started to apply the product to the field. I had made three passes when I realised that I did not have enough product to do another full pass.

Because of the trees at either end of the field, I decided to spray a headland pass to give me more room to pull up at the treed end of the field. I figured I had enough product remaining to do one headland pass before heading back to refill.

I pulled up and flew out of the field to determine how best to approach the headland pass. Flying to the west would bring me too close to the power line at a high rate of speed, so I decided to fly away from the power line. I manoeuvred into position with the power line behind me. I had settled into what I thought was a stable hover but, as I moved slowly forward, I heard a loud bang and the helicopter started spinning violently. I closed the throttle and prepared for impact.

When all the parts stopped moving, I found myself partway outside the cockpit door opening (both doors had been removed) restrained by my seat belt. The top of the door frame had landed on the temple area of the left side of my head with enough impact force to dent the top of the very rigid door frame. I was firmly pinned under the machine between the door frame and the ground. I undid the chin strap and slid out of the helmet with little effort, as the helmet did not deform or compress enough to trap my head. There was a large black impact mark on the helmet but no visible damage. There is no doubt in my mind that my helmet saved me from serious injury and quite probably death.

When I originally considered purchasing a helmet, I was somewhat deterred by the price. It didn’t take me long to figure out that it was the prudent thing to do and now of course, I’m glad I made the choice—the right choice—to buy one.

We have a rigid policy in our company—no one will ride in or fly our helicopter without a helmet. We provide a generic style for our passengers to wear. We will not hire pilots unless they have and agree to wear proper head protection. I discussed this policy with another operator and he indicated that he felt he couldn’t legally force his pilots to wear helmets—something to do with their freedom of choice. Be that as it may, we remain resolved in our decision that it is our freedom of choice that helmets are mandatory if aircrew want to work with us.

Helmets save lives. In this pilot’s opinion, there is no acceptable substitute.

John Baswick



Cheers, OffshoreIgor http://www.pprune.org/ubb/NonCGI/eek.gif

[Ewan Whosearmy]

Offshore,

Very interesting article, thanks for posting it. Do you yourself wear a bone dome?

[Nomads]

I have been wearing a CGF Gallet helmet(lightweight) for most of this year (after trying Alpha and Gentex)with David Clark built in and I am very happy with it. I fly mainly corporate and although you get the obvious questions(ie. why do you wear one and we don't? etc. they do seem to understand that it is not only for my safety but for theirs as well I fly single pilot Ops.). It certainly improves in regard to hearing protection than the normal headset.
I also have a dark visor fitted and use this a lot even when the sun isn't out it's alot easier than trying to get your sunglasses out everytime.
Safe flying.....

[This message has been edited by Nomads (edited 22 November 2000).]

[fishboy]

Nomad, I have the same helmet and real happy with it. Your point about the safety of passengers is the same I tried to point out earlier. I read a report about a guy flying a jetranger a couple of years ago. A swan, or something similar got him full in the face! he lost the use of one eye and was pretty badly bruised, he did land the aircraft. Had he not been wearing a helmet he would have probably lost both eyes, control of the aircraft, his, and his passengers lives, in that order.

[The Nr Fairy]

I think this guy would have survived, if he'd been wearing a bone dome. Of course, it might have helpd if he'd been strapped in before he started as well.

http://www.basi.gov.au/occurs/ob199800442.htm

------------------
I got bored with "WhoNeedsRunways"

[This message has been edited by The Nr Fairy (edited 24 November 2000).]

[syd_rapac]

The use of helmets in other than pure RPT ops should be mandatory for both the pax and crew for a number of reasons.
1. the other person wearing the helmet might just be able to get you out of the wreckage prior to it lighting off.
2. The helmet usually provides a higher degree of hearing protection.Eh what did you say? Yes I fly helicopters, no I'm not in the artillery I just talk loud.
3. If you fly with the clear visor down you have a far greater chance of surviving a birdstrike or FOD in the eye.
4. Final point is that you don't necessarily have to crash to sustain a disabling head injury. Am aware of one crewdog that had his helmet split due to the pilot taking some extreme avoiding action to avoid bits of a yacht during a winch job.
In Dunnunda a number of helicopter users are providing helmets ( Gentex or similar) to their staff in particularly high risk enviroments, typically bushfire and national park work. The ground pounders are also being encouraged to wear their normal helmet (complete with fully fastened chinstrap so it doesn't blow off.)The chainsaw helmets with integral earmuffs and chin strap are becoming more popular. Some operating companies also supply helmets for higher risk task's however I would be reluctant to put on a helmet that is full of someone elses old sweat! Also if the helmet doesn't fit properly it can rotate forward if something does go wrong, effectively putting the lights out with the visor breaking your nose.

Best summarised as " Dont need the head, dont need a helmet" For Helo ops don't leave the ground without one.

SYD

[Hoverboy]

Unless I've misunderstood information I've read, the noise attenuation of the average helmet exceeds that of most headsets. I have a Gentex SPH5, much lighter than my SPH3 but I've not been wearing it for the last few years since I've been flying offshore in a multi-pilot crew.
When I did wear it, I had customers balk at my helmet, while they were offered plain old David Clarks. My explanation that satisfied most complainers was that I sling loads - shortline, longline and aerial application, somewhat more hazardous operations and I'm just used to wearing it all the time rather than switching back and forth or carrying an extra headset for when I don't feel I need it. Most people accepted that arguement.
Biggest problem I ever had was getting my head in and out of the door frame of a 500 while longlining. I could never do it without banging my head pretty well every time and I'm just under 6 foot tall! But I still wore it and felt funny without it.
I don't think there is any question that helmets save lives and I will be happy to accept any mandatory ruling. For the passengers however, you'll need to find some kind of disposable headliner if it ever comes to that.

[offshoreigor]

Ewan Whoesarmy:

In answer to your question, like Hoverboy, I too wore a helmet for many years (primarily in the Military, where the risk and exposure level was much higher than what I do now).

I stopped wearing my helmet when I came offshore, but I agree that the noise attenuation of a helmet far exceeds the capabilities of the 'David Farce'.

Besides, if you read some the responses to my posts, it seems I am so thick, that I don't need one!

Cheers, OffshoreIgor http://www.pprune.org/ubb/NonCGI/eek.gif

[430 driver]

Well - it looks like I'm a minority here - I strongly prefer the comfort of headsets over helmets. Fortunately, my present position affords me that option.

For much of my career I've certainly worn helmets. I would never argue that headsets provide as much protection; indeed I'm aware of lives saved through the use of Kevlar helmets. However; many of us who fly SPIFR prefer to wear a headset. Why? It doesn't limit our periferal (sp?) vision in the cockpit.

Finally, I'm acquainted with a taller pilot whose head hits the overhead console of his aircraft when wearing a helmet - probably not the best situation. For this reason, he prefers the use of headsets.

[4Rvibes]

In the operation I work for (UK-based EMS) both sets of crew [pilots and paramedics] wear Alpha bone-domes.
This doesn't upset the pax because a) They are too sick to care or b) This will be the one flight they have in a helo in their life and won't think about it.
Our casualties and pax wear headsets for the above reasons this is also why they are not issued with Nomex flying suits and goatskin gloves.
Think about the repercussions if we did otherwise.
Cheers,
4R

PS Ewan Whosearmy is the best handle in PPRUNE


[This message has been edited by 4Rvibes (edited 26 November 2000).]

[John Eacott]

There was a Wessex bingled on the tie down pad at Culdrose around 1970 or so, when the machine developed ground resonance whilst chained to pad. The pilot wasn't wearing his bone dome (tie down, no need.....) and was knocked unconscious when the HAS1 rolled on it's side, still turning with the stubs of the blades imitating a rotary hoe.

Eventually the fireys turned up and stopped the donk by squirting foam through the intake, then the driver was whisked away to sick bay and about 6 month's convalescent leave. Salutary lesson for most of us at the time.

However, in the bold world of commercial aviation, there's a time and place for everything, and sometimes flying VIP's in twin engine air conditioned comfort, with the old bars gleaming on a clean white shirt, isn't always a good time to put on a bone dome.

Down in the weeds chasing a car on a film job, slinging foam at a bush fire, lifting loads onto a city roof; definitely a hard hat job.

Horses for courses.

[Debsatco]

Hi

Thanks for your message regarding helicopter prints. Unfortunately there was an error on thesystem regarding my message.

If you are interested in the prints then send me an e-mail to [email protected] and I will send you relevant information.

Just for the record it is not a Lynx in Hong Kong but a Scout. Apologies....

Some details are as follows:

The Scout is in the foreground, with the Hong Kong and New Territories
outlined behind, also in one corner is the Hong Kong skyline as it was in
1991 (Bank of China Building etc).

The medium is pen and ink - traditional black and white. The size is approx
10'' x 8''.

Other pictures immediately available are; of the four main Army helicopters
which have been in service in Northern Ireland since 1969:- ie Sioux,
(Nightsun Role), Scout (Eagle patrol), Gazelle (Thermal Image - 'Finch') and
the Lynx (GPMG Role - with an inset picturefrom the door gunners point of
view).

The Hong Kong picture is a limited edition of 250 - the others (Nothern
Ireland background) are a limited edition of only 100!!!! - all prints are
approx 10'' x 8''.


Regards

Debs.

[Bravo November]

Outside of the military,the use of helmets is up to the aircrew or pilots,But having seen some of those crashes over the last few years i would use a helmet,Some companies now a days have to use helmets because of the health and safety act and the insurance firms also have a say.
If any of the CGF and GENTEX wearers out there read this can you e-mail me why you have chosen them to wear,

Many thanks
BN
[email protected]
:)

[RW-1]

Helmet -> definately. If a pax asks why? I just ell 'em it's for the "cool" factor ...

------------------
Marc

[hoverbover]

Following on from the Birdstrike article, it has got me thinking!

What is the best flying helmet/visor at the moment, I am a little bit loathed to lose the BOSE X but it seems to make sense if flying single pilot. Any ideas ??

Regards

HoverBover
And no Im not interested in the Roy Chubby Brown Jokes. hehe (UK joke only)

[This message has been edited by hoverbover (edited 07 June 2001).]

[HeliAviator]

Alpha Helmets manufacture a good allround rotary helmet that's lightweight, comfortable and a reasonable price.

[RW-1]

No, not flying helmets too ?

Birds are hard enough to avoid! :)

Yes, Alpha is one of the best.

------------------
Marc

[Tuckunder]

Have worn em all me life! 'A' without doubt is tickvg.

[Vfrpilotpb]

Hi HoverB,
That was the semi question that I thought would gain an answer, however all the pointers are to the Alpha Helmet, where would one find this item for sale? and at roughly what price, having said that my eye's are priceless.!

[HOGE]

Try

http://www.headsetservices.com/frame01.html

[mitten]

Speak to the boys at Kemble, they'll do you a great job for reasonable buckshesh

[Nomads]

Alpha is maybe a good helmet but have a look at a CGF Gallet helmet at www. gallet.fr
and have your own headset build in to that helmet. Best of both worlds.
Have flown with a CGF for over a year would not want to swap it for anything else.
Safe Flying.

[collective bias]

Would it not be a wonderful thing if aviation helmets were as comfortable as motorcycle helmets. My Arai bike helmet is so superior to my Alpha for noise suppression and comfort. Of all the products available Alpha are the best but the bike guys get a lighter, cheaper and more superior product for half the cost of any aviation offering.
Perhaps we should appeal to motorcycle helmet manufacturers to consider an aviation line?

[zardoz]

Too true - with a dual visor Alpha running at close to £1000 nowadays, unfortunately Headset Services have a virtual monopoly.
An ex RAF Helmet Fitter recently tried to set up as a Alpha servicer, but was told he could not import part direct from Alpha and would have to source them from Headset Services. Guess who would get priority for spares.....

[Marco]

Zardoz

Our ASU has a Gentex Helmet on trial from the gentlemen you mention, if he's the one based in Kemble. The helmet, from the US, seems much more comfortable than the Alpha and the ANR version is hundreds of pounds cheaper than Headset Services can offer. We don't touch HS any more due to the poor unreliable service they gave us.

[fishboy]

Try a CGF Gallet helmet, very comfortable and very light, dual or single visor, various colours and all the add-onns you could want. A bit expensive but well worth it. about $1100 USD form Merrit Apparrel in Florida.
hopefully you'll never need one!

[Marco]

Following on from Mitten's comments. We have an US Gentex helmet on trial from the boys at Kemble. Initial impressions are very good. Lighter and seems much more comfortable than an Alpha and much cheaper especially the ANR version.

Don't touch HS with a barge pole.

[hover lover]

Zardoz,
We might have something worthwhile to talk about, about helmets. Send me your email address.
Regards!

[Roofus]

Headset Services....<sheesh> Very poor service, very poor attitude, huge prices!!

If anyone does have other suppliers/ helmets I'd appreciate an E-Mail. I'd love to get away from headset services!

[huey3]

THE ALPHA FLYING HELMET IS AN EXTREMELY EFFICIENT HELMET, OFFERING EXCELLENT CRASH AND NOISE PROTECTION. WE SELL AND USE ALPHAS, BUT MY SUGGESTION REGARDLESS OF WHICH BRAND YOU USE, AS LONG AS YOU CHOOSE CORRECT FIT AND A GOOD QULITY HELMET, YOU WILL BE 'MILES IN FRONT' IN THE EVENT OF AN ACCIDENT. YOU CAN GET INFO AT www.ozemail.com.au/~mcdav/ (http://www.ozemail.com.au/~mcdav/)
GOOD LUCK AND SAFE FLYING

[wolfshaun]

Whats the problem with HS - if it stands for what I assume they have alway been very helpful for spares for my old SPH helmet...

[ShyTorque]

Oh sorry, from the title, I thought this thread was about yet another Police Air Support TV programme....

"The Flying Helmets"

Heh, heh.

[Bingo fuel]

For those who are still looking,try the
following; WWW.SKYLINE-AVIATION.COM (http://WWW.SKYLINE-AVIATION.COM)

Last thing I remember is that they now
have the ALPHA-helmet dealership.

This company is situated at Den Helder
Airport/De kooi in the Netherlands, right
next door at Bristow helicopters....

[Copter Cody]

Im a new pilot and was wondering what type of head gear to get. Can you seasond chopper pilots give me a few pointers?

Thahks
Cody

[The Nr Fairy]

Yep. Read this thread: Flying Helmets... (http://www.pprune.org/ubb/NonCGI/Forum11/HTML/001161.html) and then this thread: More on Helmets (http://www.pprune.org/ubb/NonCGI/Forum11/HTML/001163.html). Then read this accident report: Report into B206 accident at Mangalore, VIC (http://www.basi.gov.au/occurs/ob199800442.htm). Then read this thread : Helicopter Birdstrikes? (http://www.pprune.org/ubb/NonCGI/Forum11/HTML/001134.html)

My point ? From reading ( mostly UK and Australian civilian helicopter accident reports ), low speed accidents are unlikely to kill you if you're flying, unless you're not strapped in properly ( see the BASI report ). Birdstrikes are more of an issue - see the birdstrikes thread link above. However, read this accident report: Formal report into accident involving G-PLMA (http://www.aaib.detr.gov.uk/formal/gplma/gplma.htm), an example of where safety equipment turned out wrong.

At the end of the day, whatever you decide, I'm not going to knock someone for wearing or not wearing a bonedome.

------------------
For the last bloody time, it's "The En Ar Fairy" . . .

[This message has been edited by The Nr Fairy (edited 21 June 2001).]

[Copter Cody]

Try this mate, Great top quality gear for un beatable prices for the quality

http://www.flightsuits.com/

[Copter Cody]

Thanks MR Fairy, What do you think about the SPH 5 's ? I like the looks and comfort but they're kinda like wearing a bucket. Not that Im not confident of my fling capablities it just a little re-assuring to know my nogin will be protected if a telephone line jumps up and grabs me or a tree and/or some kind of freak engine failure. Thanks again

Cody

[Copter Cody]

I was looking at purchasing a helo helmet and I was wondering what you more "seasoned" pilots thought of it. Im not really sure which is the best thats why i need your guys help to decide because im not really into throwing away $800 because of ignorance.
Heres a great site for pilot gear
http://www.flightsuits.com/

Thanks

Cody B

[Marco]

We trialed the mentioned helmet at our ASU recently. All were very impressed and much preferred it to the Alpha. The ANR version of the SPH-5 is much cheaper as well.

[This message has been edited by Marco (edited 30 June 2001).]

[advancing_blade]

Try this link for Government sales Inc:. I bought a new heli helmet from them three years ago, and found it to be much more comfortable than the Gentex SPH5 (quite a bit cheaper too). Get the leather liner, not the web, unless your flying in serious heat. Never tried an Alpha, but I've heard people rave about them.

http://www.aviationhelmets.com/helmet.htm

[This message has been edited by advancing_blade (edited 02 July 2001).]

[Copter Cody]

Thanks blade, wholy cow those are alot cheaper, especally the new ones. The price for them w/all comunications is the same price for the helmet and nothing else. That would save me about $200. Thanks man

Cody

[advancing_blade]

Cody,

I should have also added that the comms cord is a straught type ie not coiled like a phone cable. They offer (or did) two lenghts of cord. If the comms plug is low in your ship you will need a long one, or a self coiling extension lead would be better

[407 Driver]

I have also dealt with "Government Sales" for SPH-5 helmet parts, etc. They have a very good bunch of people, deliver high quality goods in just a few days, and the costs are so much less than the fine folks at flightsuits....
You won't go wrong with them.

[IHL]

If your just starting out and you plan a long career get a helmet that offers active noise cancellation. Though it may be quite a bit more money it will pay dividends when you reach middle age and you still have your hearing.

[Copter Cody]

Thanks, I'll give em i try, Do you recomend a brain bucket if im going into flight school next fall or is it too much of a distraction trying to listen to the instructor?

Cody

[Roofus]

I wear an Alpha.....always have. They're good..but expensive! Must admit to having never tried the others! The real downside of Alpha in the UK is Headset Services (the supplier) they are dreadful!!

I would vote against ANR. There are certain things a pilot needs to hear!

In a recent R22 crash, the fact that the pilot was wearing ANR was described a contributary factor!

[The Nr Fairy]

Roofus :

The other contributory factor being an overspeed of 132%.

[Marco]

Roofus

Try SES at Kemble, better, quicker and cheaper. We used HS for some time but switched for the reasons you mentioned.

[Tokoloshe]

Anybody have any gen on the Alpha flying helmets.. .I have an old Gentex that has seen better days and am looking at buying a new Alpha helmet. It certainly costs a bit more than the Gentex, is it worth it? Any comments on durability, comfort etc.? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="smile.gif" />

[paco]

I use an Alpha myself, though I didn't pay full price for it. I like it a lot, but there's a new French one that's getting some good feedback in Canada, especially as the Alpha is almost impossible to get in N America anyway (I know there's an agent, but the system certainly doesn't work - there's a lead time of six weeks anyway). Perhaps someone knows who the French guys are.. .. .Phil

[Rotorbike]

CGF Gallet. .. .<a href="http://www.gallet.fr" target="_blank">www.gallet.fr</a> should get you to the right place!!!. .. . <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="biggrin.gif" />

[Marco]

I'd get a new gentex if I were you. Alpha's, which I've been wearing for 7 years, are heavier and more expensive. We're shortly all to have gentex in our unit and all can't wait.

[B Sousa]

I will be coming back to SA in a month or so. I have two Gentex types, both pretty new. I can part with one for the right price, or maybe get one here in the states for you. Drop me an email.

[Off road]

For the last two years I have used a CGF Gallet with a David Clarcks H60 build in and find it very comfortable to fly with, all day, hardly notice that I have got it on.. .But then I have never seen/held an Alpha but then I have seen/held a Gentex but was not to impressed.. .Safe flying <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />. . . . <small>[ 27 March 2002, 19:54: Message edited by: Off road ]</small>

[Droopy]

I've used both Gentex and Alpha; I feel the alphas are rather better generally and definitely more comfortable. The gel ear seals on the gentex didn't relly keep out all the noise and the gel was particularly uncomfortable to don when cold, though in ZA I doubt if that would bother you!

[Buitenzorg]

Tokoloshe,. .. .If at all possible you should try them all on, people have different head shapes, neck musculature etc. People can only tell you what worked well or not for themselves.

[Tokoloshe]

Thanks for all the input,

I have tried on the Alpha and it seems a lot better as far as the fit is concerned. Not sure yet if the price justifies it; although as the old Bell helmets add went....If you have 10$ head, buy a 10$ helmet.
Re, the agents, I will get mine from the UK as there is no agent in SA (as far as I know)

[Gibbo]

macleod,

Have worn an Alpha for 10+ years and seen it in action twice (not on me fortunately!)

Worked as advertised both times, one in a pretty nasty rolling accident.

No comparison of the others available, but I know the Alpha is reliable in an accident; worth the extra $ in my mind.
;)

[Randy_g]

In case anyone is wondering Gentex has 2 new helicopter helmets in their product line. When I visited FlightSuits (http://www.flightsuits.com/helm.html) in San Diego a couple of years ago, I was told of the new models. They have a new one to replace the SPH-5 (standard helmet), that the US Army has designed (HGU 56). It is similar, but has square ear 'flaps'. The US Navy & Marines have gone with an HGU 84 helicopter helmet (top gun style). It is lighter than the SPH series. So you do have more than one option when it comes to Gentex helmets.

Cheers

http://randyspics.tripod.ca/gifs/ozmate2.gif Randy_G

http://randyspics.tripod.ca/gifs/bear_eating_picnic_md_clr.gif

[zhishengji751]

thread from the past, but its something I've often wondered.. from a PPL(H) interest.

Irrespective of passenger reaction etc, wouldn't a helmet be recommended under most conditions?
It seems to me that helmet improve survivability, aid in noise reduction, provides added eye protection with a visor.. why arent they more common, even in a PPL(H) stream?

Even if you arent all 'nomexed' up, isnt a helmet still beneficial?

Is it the cost?

You might look like a tosser/wannabe wearing one when its not the 'norm' ... but when it comes to the crunch, it'll be worth it, wouldnt it?

Given that a lot of training is done in Robbies would you been seen as not compliying with the POH when it says "During run-up & shutdown, pilot should uncover right ear, open right door, and listen for unusual bearing noise..."

[Skycop9]

A few years ago a New York State Police helicopter struck wires while on a marijuana eradication mission. The aircraft reportedly fell back and landed on the tailboom first and then landed upright. The pilot was wearing a headset at the time. The pilots door pillar crushed inward and he struck his head on the pillar. He lost alot of blood and almost died. He suffers from dizziness and head aches. According to the DR'S if he had on a helmet he would not have suffered the laceration to the head and lost all the blood. Unfortunately he lost his medical because of the diziness. I like the helmet as it protects your eyes with either the clear visor or the tinted visor in the sun. When I fly for the police I always wear it. When I fly for the cilvilan polpulation I do not always wear one. (I feel naked without it).


Skycop9:rolleyes:

[HeliMark]

In the area that I generally work, I could not imagine not wearing a helmet. I am constantly in gusty winds that throw us around, and with the "superior" headroom in the 500, you should see the marks in my helmet. Granted the helmet reduces the headroom, but I would not have it any other way.

I agree with the better noise protection of the helmet, and I also use the "CEP" ear protection.

The passengers that I have, rarely ask about the helmet. My response is that it part of my uniform, and that seems to satisfy them.

[helmet fire]

Love the helmet - a bit predictable really...:D :D

I remember I worked for an EMS helo organisation that was considering introducing helmets for the aircrew and there was alot of the concern that some of you have raised here - that the pax may be frightened by them. When we researched it further we contacted a US organisation (CONCERN or HAI - not too sure) and asked the questions on safety, noise, and pax in regard to helmets. I remember that their response finally convinced the management to go with the helmets - as long as the aircrew purchased their own!! The part of the response that helped swing the decision stated that the patients/passengers flying with helmet equipped pilots were only very rarely scared by them, and in fact, they were much more likely to think it looked more professional, and wre thus more at ease !!!

An example of why I always wear a helmet: I met a Canadian bloke flying a Canadian B205 for Jayrow on the Australian fires a few years back - a great bloke, and an experienced pilot. A few days after I had met him. he left a local show where he and his helicopter had been a display, to fly back to the operating base. En-route he suffered a mechanical failure - transmission related - and crashed. He died several hours after the accident of head injuries- only a few hours before they found him. The tragedy was that he had his helmet strapped into the back seat rather than on his head. (From memory, he had also disarmed the ELT incase the kids at the show activated it - and forgot to re arm it.)

I dont know how to post a link to this but it is on the Australian Transport safety Board/ BASI website as a complete report - perhaps some one in the know could post a link?. If you dont believe in helmets - read it.

On the visors - I once saw a demo wear a bloke with a hammer tried to break an Alpha helmet visor by suspending it between two bricks and pounding the poo out of it with the hammer. Also, a mate of mine speared in doing parachute ops in a fixed wing, and ended up with some severe facial injuries when he bit the dash board during the accident. According to the investigation, the injuries would have been far less significant and far less widespread if he had had his visor down. Lesson two learnt for me: ALWAYS have your clear visor down, even if you then put your dark one down too.

Also, helmet visors (unlike most sunglasses - particularly coloured lense glasses) are specifically tested for colour clarity so the red and orange caution lights remain sensitive to the eye detection abilities.

Why wouldn't you wear one?
:cool:

[The Nr Fairy]

The B205 accident report can be found here (http://www.atsb.gov.au/aviation/occurs/occurs_detail.cfm?ID=268) .

Also, there's the report mentioned in a post above referring to the accident involving VH-PMO (http://www.atsb.gov.au/aviation/occurs/occurs_detail.cfm?ID=240) at Mangalore.

[Gibbo]

Helmet Fire, Good example with the Jaspers Brush accident, beat me to it!

Another accident where BASI mentioned helmet was in Qld a few years ago. 206 on charter ops autorotated into water very hard and all on board drowned. Pilot was knocked out in accident and passengers were either incapacitated or unable to exit. General comment was that if the pilot was wearing a helmet he would have been conscious after the accident and would 'probably' have exited the aircraft. He may have then been able to help the pax.

This was post accident speculation on the part of the investiagtors, but a clear message from this is the opportunity to survive was diminished because the pilot was not wearing a helmet.

My preference is to wear it when-ever possible.

Gibbo

P.S. 430 driver - If your helmet restricts peripheral vision for any ops (including SPIFR) then it is either a poor fit or a poor helmet. The only bit of the helmet you should be able to see (through) is the visor.

[902Jon]

Just to clarify,
It is (in the U.K) mandatory for all of the crew to wear protective headgear for police / EMS operations. It is also the case for powerline /pipeline patrol operations.

Personally, I have worn a helmet whenever I have been able to outside of pure public transport. Common sense dictates that if you have an uninvited guest thru' the screen or that the **** is really hitting the aircraft fan, you want to give yourself the best chance to walk away and fly another day.

Here's hoping that I never have to test it.:)

[PushTo Shock]

I'm obviously preaching to the converted here but I'd feel very strange flying around without a bone dome.

I've banged my head countless times whilst attempting resus, the dark visor is more practical (and less wannabe) than a pair of Oakleys and the clear visor invaluable during hot loads.

My only 'helmet pet hate' is fellow crew members (a minority) who insist on wearing one away from the aircraft during an incident. They cannot hear a thing and risk damaging a valuable piece of kit. We provide kevlar safety helmets for that sort of thing!!!

Also, most UKHEMS operators require paramedics to share helmets (normally 3 between 30) often resulting in an ill fit (despite multi-fit velcro tabs). I know it's probably a charity/money thing but surely a lose helmet is going to do more damage than good if we cream in?

[crop duster]

I've always worn a helmet when crop dusting in either an airplane or helicopter. Two years ago while spraying a field my engine starting spooling down without any advanced notice. I was headed for a large area of trees, which were probably 85 to 100 feet high, so I pulled up and turned left 90 degrees out over another field and proceeded to land. As luck would have it we had just received 8 inches of rain so the field I'm landing in is wet to say the least. The first part of the rollout was not bad but as the wheels began to sink in the mud the tail started coming up. We were pretty slow by then but not enough to keep from flipping over on her back.

We fly Ayres Turbo Thrushes which have enclosed cockpits. As the bird flopped on her back the cockpit stuck down in the mud and crushed the top of the fiberglass canopy. The doors of a Thrush let down; but, now they were stuck about six inches in the mud. I released my harnes and fell into the top of the cab and proceeded to get the left door off. Each side has an emergency release which alows the door to come off the hinge pins. Most crop dusters have ample room at the bottom of the cockpit where you sit but if you flip it over, it's mighty small up where your head normally is. With the top of the door firmly stuck in the mud I had to bend the door over enough to crawl out all the while praying very hard that she wouldn't catch fire. Time slows down when your scared but it seemed like it took ten minutes to get out. After I got out on my hands and knees I was covered with mud from head to toe. I knew there was a little bar about a half mile away and believe it or not bars are open in Louisiana at 8:00 in the morning.

The cause of the engine failure was the torque sensor fuel pump gear broke in half which caused the fire to go out. Funny thing about engine failures, the insurance company will pay to fix the airplane but not the engine. A pilot can run out of gas and they'll fix the whole machine; but, let part of the engine fail and it's no longer covered.

Getting back to helmets. When we flipped over on our back the fiberglass and mud shoved down on my head pretty good. I didn't have any injury's but that next winter when the helmet was sent in for it's semiannual refurb the shell was cracked. I wear a Flight Suit helmet, that is form fitted to my head, and they do not repair shells. So, I had to spend several hundred dollars for a new helmet. In the end, I'm sure glad I had one on to start with.

[Gibbo]

You bring up a good point crop duster,

Whenever you are in an accident you should send you helmet for a check, even if there is no visible damage.

A colleague heavy (very heavy) landed a Kiowa a few years ago and found a small nick on the outside shell of the helmet as a result of the impact. Initial visual inspection and a bit of prodding seemed to indicate the helmet (and pilots head) were still serviceable. A complete inspection completed in a lab revealed that the helmet was severly fractured through about a 3 inch circle around the mark; it would not have provided adequate protection in another bingle.

The pilots head had contacted the emergency door release during the accident, which he was not aware of. It saved his life, but would not have worked twice.

I think that if it worth paying for a helmet once it is worth paying for again!

Gibbo

[t'aint natural]

May I put in a word for persuasion and tolerance here? Most posters have avoided thumping the table and demanding that 'something be done,' but one or two have overstepped the mark.
If you can't persuade someone to use a helmet, don't take refuge in seeking to 'mandate' it. Given public attitudes towards us, no helicopter pilot should ever use the words ban, prevent, mandate, force, ground, or oughterbealaw without long and careful consideration.

[What-ho Squiffy!]

One saved my skull - I love them.

Anybody know (in Aust) where to pick up an Alpha? Cost?

[weedflier]

Nomads and hoverboy, I'd be interested if you can tell me where I can get more information on the helmets you mention and where I could purchase one (especially in UK).

I well remember the incident of which John Eacott speaks, it happened in 1967 at RNAS Culdrose. There was also a nasty accident on HMS Bulwark in 1968 when a Wessex V with an underslung load, just coming to the hover over the deck, suffered an engine runaway up, with that engine being shut down by the overspeed trip system. The aircraft crashed on to the deck, the main rotor departed into the Mediterranean, and the main gearbox partially detached from its mounting and part of it entered the cockpit. The pilot's life was saved by his 'bonedome' which had the appearance of the shell of a hard-boiled egg which has just been cracked prior to being peeled.

I must say that after I left the military I felt naked without a bone dome. One of my friends lost his licence when a 58ET he was flying in the North Sea in 1976 lost its tail rotor because of tail rotor buzz just as he was coming into the hover over a production platform deck. The aircraft fell off the rig deck onto the deck of a crane barge below. His skull was fractured when it was impacted by the corner of the overhead console and it was a number of years before he regained his licence. I think that a helmet would undoubtedly have saved him all those hard years of suffering. There was a fair amount of debate afterwards as to whether pilots should wear helmets, the management of the company arguing that if pilots wore them then they would have to be provided for passengers also (so what!); and that as offshore flying was public transport it was unnecessary, as one did not see pilots of passenger fixed-wing wearing them (they failed to mention that one also did not see the pilots of fixed-wing landing on moving rigs offshore at night in 60 knot winds!). However, they failed to mention that most passengers are not sitting in helicopters for 500+ hours a year as are most of we drivers-airframe. The matter was never properly resolved, but when I was flying on mountain ops in Iran we were provided with Gentex helmets which were comfortable even in temperatures well into the mid forties centigrade. On the operation where I am now the choice is left to the individual and quite a few pilots wear helmets. Certainly I notice that with the passage of the years the increasingly unpadded pate suffers a lot more from being bashed on the rotor brake and the numerous other overhead protuberances on most helicopters. A helmet would help there. Also, with advancing years, for most of us, comes deteriorating eyesight and as most helmets are provided with a dark visor there is no need to be constantly taking off normal spectacles and putting on sunglasses (which anyway are very expensive if one has them with prescription lenses). I also think that a helmet visor would be less likely to suffer from condensation than a pair of sunglasses, being a bit further from the face and having better air circulation.
The point of the clear visor on most helmets providing good protection from bird strikes is also very valid, especially on those helicopters with perspex screens. I have seen at least 4 bird strikes on company helicopters in the last 3 years and the fact that the pilots were at least wearing sunglasses gave some protection to their eyes. If they had had no eye protection I think that at least one of them would have been blinded in one eye.
I don't wear a helmet at present, but I would like to and if the 2 gentlemen mentioned above could send me some details I'd be most grateful. Incidentally, do any of the helmet manufacturers provide ANR earpieces, or is the increased level of hearing protection sufficient to render this unnecessary?

[Genghis the Engineer]

If a non rotary pilot might stick his head around the door...

Firstly the Alpha is very expensive (about £600) but a really comfortable and strong piece of kit. I got to wear one once or twice in a FJ, and for maintaining lookout during high g manoeuvring, they're unbeatable. I'd certainly invest in one if I did much aerobatics.

I spend much of my life climbing in and out of various aircraft, some of which are open cockpit, some not, and some too cramped to accomodate a bonedome (which I've been rather unhappy about on several occasions). I use a combination system from "Communica", a British company. it consists of headsets, helmets which fit over the headsets, and removable locking clear visors. So, for most circumstances and types, I'm covered.

I think other companies, such as Lynx and Airzone do similar systems, although I think Lynx is probably the only one with a BS kitemark for helmet integrity. The helmets usually will also work with a number of other headset types, which is just as well since some of the plugs used on this kit (which is generally designed for microlight use) are pretty non-standard.

It's a good compromise, that works for me anyway.

G

[Genghis the Engineer]

Oh yes,

http://www.microlightsport.co.uk/Catalogue/Lynx/lynx.htm is a firm that stocks the Lynx kit, which I've flown with and is at-least as good as my Communica gear (which I notice they've got as well).

G

[zaplead]

Your certainly right to give consideration to this, you are correct that it is mandatory to wear helmets for HEMS missions, however most of us wear them all the time for reasons stated above.
HEMS flight or not, given the option I will wear one every time, however the correct fitting requires attention......

[C4]

The only difference between wearing a helmet or not....... Is an open or closed CASKET....

I will have an open one!!!!!!!

[Nomads]

Weedflier:

Sorry to take so long.

Websites to check for a CGF Gallet helmet are;

www.gallet.fr

or

www.flighthelmets.com.au

Safe Flying

Nomads

;)

[wde]

What a wonderful thread...

I personally have always worn a helmet...even in SE Asia flying @ +39C. I have worked for a number of companies, however, that balk at Mandating helmets because then they are on the hook to purchase them. I think this sends a lousy message...tout the benefits of helmets but only if the employeee forks over the coin.

My current employer, a Cdn EMS company, underwrites the cost of a helmet purchase by 50%. They buy the helmets bulk from Gentex with a company PO, then the pilot pays his share of the helmet cost over a 6 month period thru a pay deduction. This co-operative system works great and encourages helmet purchases.

But wait, they have an EMS contract that mandates that the Medics wear helmets, thus they pay 100% of the medics' helmets but only 50% of the pilots' helmets!!

How's that for fostering unity among employees!! ;)

We can only purchase the SPH 5. I think if I had my $ over, I would buy an Alpha.

Cheers

[GLSNightPilot]

In the US, at least, helmets seem to be the exception, not the rule. I know of very few in use offshore, those being flights for the MMS, gov't inspectors, sometimes. There is a place for them, as John Eacott noted, on fires, longline, etc, but for most routine transport I don't think they're necessary. I wore a helmet for years in the military, & haven't worn one regularly since. I tried one on a MMS flight once, & removed it very quickly. Admittedly it was a poor fit, but the noise reduction was much less than my custom headset, & I couldn't understand radio traffic at all, because the audio quality was so poor. I've been flying since 1968, & fortunately I've never been in a situation where the helmet would have been any help.

I do realize this is a subjective area, & I won't argue with anyone who wants to wear a helmet, as long as he won't argue with me for not wearing one.

[helmet fire]

GLS,

I will not argue with you about wether or not you should wear a helmet - I agree with you about being your own choice (unless your employer dictates otherwise).

There were two comments you made that caught my attention:

"but for most routine transport I don't think they're necessary"

and

"I've been flying since 1968, & fortunately I've never been in a situation where the helmet would have been any help. "

These comments are directly applicable to the B205 accident discussed on Page 3 of this thread. There is a link posted by NR Fairey to the accident report. My guess is that the pilot involved may have had those same thoughts as he took off.

It is well worth the time and effort to read this report. It certainly influences my feeling toward wearing helmets - perhaps it can offer you another point of view to consider.

[handyandyuk]

Here's one for idle curiousity.... what's the feeling or rules on helmets? When should they be worn? Is there a written requirement?

I wear one anyhow... more for comfort; shades over specs just doesn't work for me .... but there's the safety aspect too.


Go for it guys.... let's hear what experience thinks.

[almost canadian]

http://www.fs.fed.us/r6/fire/aviation/accidents99.htm
check the last page:'pilot's helmet...any questions?'
Pretty much says it all for me.
I'm sure there's a few of you out there that can come up with similar pic's. Please post if you do.

[handyandyuk]

Now there's one lucky guy!

I think I'll be keeping me lid on, strapped up and visor down!

[teeteringhead]

Couldn't agree more. Many years ago, a young teeteringhead crashed (and trashed) a military UH-1. Not my fault! Control malfunction not enemy action, so a read across to all rotary methinks.

There was a hole in the side of my helmet (probably from rotorbrake cylinder), that you could have put your fist through. That hole would have been in my head......

A few months in hospital for me; crew chief and 2 pax (without helmets) not so lucky I'm afraid.......:(
And I'm still flying, but always with a helmet!!

[almost canadian]

another lucky fellow:
http://safecopter.arc.nasa.gov/Pages/Columns/Heliprops/HelFiles/PDF%20files/Hel_13_2.pdf
no picture, but still a good read.
And check out:
http://www.flightsafety.org/members/serveme.cfm/?path=/hs/hs_nov_dec98.pdf
just sign up to read it.
and:
http://www.americal.org/174/dol-01.htm

[handyandyuk]

That's it!!... I am most definately keeping my lid on!

Given how often I can afford to fly thesedays the added safety outways the SFH company saying it's not too sure about me wearing it.

Thanks guys.

[The Nr Fairy]

On the other hand, G-PLMA's accident (http://www.aaib.dft.gov.uk/formal/gplma/gplma.htm).

[almost canadian]

Nr Fairy,
nobody is saying here that wearing a helmet will save your life in case of an accident, but it should be obvious that it will increase your chance of survival.
Hopefully one day the manufacturers will get their heads out of their...and install airbags in every machine.
Any good car you buy these days has at least 4 to 6 airbags up front (front, a-pillar and side airbag on each side) there is absolutely no reason they couldn't be installed in every machine.
Nick, if you're reading this, you think we might expect this in the near future (keeping your recent question in mind on what could be improved.)?

[TwinHueyMan]

Almost: That Vietnam story is simply amazing. One of the most incredible things I've read in quite a while.

NR: I read that report a few months ago. A 2-3 inch section of cord with connectors is something I would imagine is a no brainer - when I read the part where it described the doctor finding him, I thought he had forgotten the emergency cord disconnector or something. Seems like something that simple should be SOP. RIP Pilot.

I've got a question here - are there some flights you shouldn't wear helmets? VIP passengers I'd think wouldn't like seeing a helmet-headed pilot greeting them any more than a helmet-haired pilot. ENG personalities would probably be unrecognizable with the visor down. Tour pilots/guides would probably scare the passengers. Any thoughts?

Mike

[almost canadian]

http://www.nctimes.net/news/110900/zz.html
sounds like the helmet definately helped in this one too.

here's yet another good reason
http://www.rotor.com/Committees/pdf/vor-9701.pdf

This one tops it all,
I saw this picture before, but had a hard time finding it again.
For any non believers out there, let this be a lesson>
http://www.tc.gc.ca/aviation/syssafe/newsletters/vortex/vort2-00/english/538e.htm

[The Nr Fairy]

almost :

I know that G-PLMA's accident was a freak, and that helmets can save your life much more often than they take it.

I think I was after promulgating the point of the enquiry, which was that a small extension lead may have saved this guy's life, and may save yours or mine.

Disclaimer - no umbrage taken or intended.

[almost canadian]

Sorry about that NR, a small extension indeed might have done the trick, a weak link/plug somewhere in the cord might have done too.
This also very noticable during dunker training when you forget to unplug and after doing everything according to procedure, you find yourself stuck to the machine because of your helmet.
When seconds count this is definately something you don't want to happen.
Every trip I make sure that my (curly) cord is not tangled up in my belts or stuck behind something that might stop me of getting out in a hurry.
Just my 2 cents.

[helmet fire]

I am a big fan of helmets!

Also see the previous thread on this topic at:

helmet thread (http://http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=19584&perpage=15&pagenumber=1)

If the articles in that thread, and this one, are not enough to convince, there is an accident that always sticks in my mind in relation to helmets. The pilot died from head injuries several hours after the accident, and only a couple of hours before they found him. His helmet was on the backseat when he went in, not on his head.

Huey Accident (http://www.atsb.gov.au/aviation/occurs/occurs_detail.cfm?ID=268)

There has been a report by either CONCERN or the HAI (I dont have a reference copy) that concluded that despite a great deal of opinoin to the contrary, MOST patients and pax felt that helmets made the flight crew look MORE professional and DID NOT scare them!!

Me wear one!:cool:

[handyandyuk]

Well, despite being unable to load some of the pagelinks you guys have given, I'm pretty convinced I should stick with me lid.

And for those who have read the G-PLMA incident I wear my UK Mk 4a which has a good foot of downlead from the helmet and I use an 18" coiled extension, so I hope there's little chance of such an occurence happening to me.:D

I have to admit my original question was more our of curiousity than much else, but having read the response I really am glad I wear one.

[Aesir]

All pilots in the company that I work for use helmets.

We fly a scheduled helicopter airline route flying. We never have any complaints from passengers about why we fly with helmets, I guess everebody is just used to seeing all helicopter pilots wear a helmet in the country and its just common sense that the most important person on board the helicopter should not be knocked unconsious by bird-strike through the windshield, turbulence or bad vibrations due to blade failure or ice.
Even in case of a crash it important that the pilot is able to help the passengers and call help and get them to safety.

Well any how, the company recently has recommended to the pilots that they also wear ear plugs (disposable foam plugs!) underneath the helmets for hearing protection.

I would just like to hear any comments from you out there, what are your views, good or bad?

[Steve76]

I have used earplugs under headsets and my helmet from day 1. I wouldn't be without them. The earplugs take out a lot of the wind noise and higher frequencies. Makes the day a whole lot more comfy.
A good mate once observed that you can wear glasses or even repair you eyeball but they don't let pilots fly with hearing aids. Simple stuff really.:cool:

[Jeep]

These work:

CEP Link (http://www.cep-usa.com/index.htm)

[bliptune]

I use etymotic er-20 earplugs while riding my motorcycle, and even around the city when I take the subway. I'm not a helicopter pilot, yet! But I thought I'd mention this product as they're superior to regular foam plugs -- musicians such as singers, drummers, etc, use them too.

http://www.etymotic.com

[Barannfin]

I also use earplugs under my headset, since i dont have ANR it helps to soften the radio and other noises.

*just a side note. I use the foam earplugs, and would readily switch to ANR helmet, but at the moment I don't fly enough to justify the cost, plus I just plain can't afford it.:(

[advancing_blade]

Im have also used ear plugs since day 1. My instructor got me on to this. He pointed out that it really helps with noise fatigue. I always wear a helmet, and as helmets have no volume control I usually turn the comms up and get non helmet wearers to turn down their headsets. If you are logging big hours, I'm sure that this must help out long term.

[Yarba]

Steve76,
Actually they do let pilots fly wearing hearing aids. I know of at least one pilot from your country (if you're from Canada as your profile says) who flies and wears 2 hearing aids as the result of a bad accident.
The only trouble I find with earplugs in hot, humid conditions is that they make the ears sweat even more and increase susceptibility to outer ear infections.
Wish my company issued us with Alpha helmets with ANR - that really would be an advance over heavy David Clarkes with poor noise attenuation.

[Capn Notarious]

[SIZE=3]So then how about this.
Your ear has three little bones, whose task is transferriing sound vibrations into the cochlea. So if the earplug is inserted into the ear canal does it lead to an air damping effect that could do more harm than good.
Question 2 what about the vibration caused by by the transmission.
SO IF A PPRUNER HAPPENS TO BE AN EAR NOSE AND THROAT SURGEON; WHAT ABOUT JOINING THIS THREAD :confused:

[Aesir]

Some pilots have voiced concerns that they will not hear abnormal noices indicating some problems with the aircraft or passengers shouting and trying to inform the pilot of impending trouble, smoke e.t.c.

So in that way a ANR system is better than earplugs, because it doesnt block out noices, just decreases the sound from the frequency ranges harmful to your hearing, actually you will still hear differences or sound changes in the transmission/gears, the whine in the turbines and blade slapping. ANR/ENC will just make it a lot more comfortable. And an added side benefit is that the radio will sound much clearer.

I have heard before that use of ear-plugs for many hours each day (5-8 hrs) could cause ear infection, but I have not heard any prof or research that indicate that it is true, obviously the guys that use ear plugs in the above posts dont seem to have that problem!

[Dick Mitten]

Used to use earplugs, recently switched to ANR. Now the radio is MUCH clearer, and all comm volumes are waaayyyyy lower. Pax have to turn up headphone volume, though. Oh well.

Always wear my skid lid!

[Another St Ivian]

Just to note, the Alpha helmet isn't great if you want to do any long-ish sorties, like in excess of 1 hr 30 mins or so. Not so long ago I wore a Alpha helmet that did fit well, but after about 1:30 I got terrible headaches where the helmet stopped the good flow of blood over the top of my head.

If possible go for ex/current military type helmets, better fitting and they come with the added sun visor.

A.S.I

[Nick Lappos]

Notarious is a bit off base, the three little bones are nice, but there is a lot of meat between the ear plugs and that stuff. The real problems are air pressure problems with some types of plugs and ear damage due to noise:

1) The plugs we all wear are the roll-up foam kind, which don't seal airtight, and thus allow pressure equalization. They cut ambient noise by 20 dB, and are very effective. Rubber airtight plugs are dangerous in aviation, as they can get pushed into your ears as you descend. The foam kind are issued like popcorn in aviation outfits around the world.

2) Noise reducing headsets might not protect your ears against the high frequency sounds that might be a problem, as the sound cancellation circuits are not very effective above about 1000 HZ, so damaging sound levels above frequency are still a problem, and must be blocked with well-sealed earcups and plugs. The active noise cancellation is great for comfort and clarity, however, and so are really popular around here.
Here is a simple plot at the web site of a company that sells ANC headsets:
http://www.sennheiserusa.com/pages/products/aviation/activeindex.htm

3) The best protection is a good set of well fitted earcups and a sound sealed headset/helmet. Plugs are an addition to this first step. A soft gel earcup is mandatory, and needs to be changed every few months.

[HeliMark]

In addition to a helmet, I have used the CEP for the last year. It has been great. Volume on the radio has to be turned down to almost zero, and I still get the protection of the foam ear plugs. Drives the passengers crazy, and I think it has helped my hearing.

There has been no issue that I could tell on not hearing what the engine is doing, or not doing with the setup.

[GLSNightPilot]

We fly a scheduled helicopter airline route flying. We never have any complaints from passengers about why we fly with helmets, I guess everebody is just used to seeing all helicopter pilots wear a helmet in the country and its just common sense that the most important person on board the helicopter should not be knocked unconsious by bird-strike through the windshield, turbulence or bad vibrations due to blade failure or ice.

So why aren't fixed-wing pilots required to wear helmets? Many of them fly relatively low also, & the airliners come down to ground level to land & take off. Cropdusters certainly need them, because they crash pretty often :D , but why should helicopter pilots need them more than other pilots?

I don't wear earplugs, because they're uncomfortable, & wearing them for hours every day causes a huge buildup of earwax in my ears. I do wear a custom-made headset, which has much more noise attenuation than off-the-shelf units. I really get irritated with pilots who wear earplugs & leave every volume control in the cockpit turned up to '11'. I try to remember to turn everything down before I turn on the battery, because it can be painful when 150dB of noise hits your ears inside the headset. :eek: If you're going to wear earplugs, at least turn the volume down when you finish your flight.

[handyandyuk]

I've been wearing a UK AAC Mk4 helmet for about a year now and even in a little robbo it makes a major difference in ambient noise.
And even after a 3 hr flight it's still comfy too... no headaches... but then it was fitted by an RAF QHI.

[Vfrpilotpb]

I feel it should be down to the individual, wether or not they wear ear plugs, I have had in the past some really big and MEGA expensive surgical operations on my hearing system, but I know that ear surgeons make the statement "The smallest thing to go in your ear should be your ELBOW" enough said, would you put cotton wool in your M/R gearbox! I always use my own set of ANR cans, they work for me without any plugs, and as for the expense, well I only have one set of ears, so as with my eyes I try to use the best I can!:)

[bigdog1971]

I wear a Gentex 56P with the CEP fitted, great for hearing radios and ICS and cuts out most eng noise. but the helmet itself is crap in dusty cond's. After an hour or so in dusty pads the visors jam up. Not real good, might work better in a sealed cockpit.
Im glad I dont have to pay for the new visors every other sortie.:mad:



------------------------------------------------------------
If it dont hover! dont bover!

[helmet fire]

I do the Alpha thing AND wear foam plugs (the "popcorn of aviation" - thanks Nick!!).

There are several larger machines that are harmful to your hearing even when wearing a helmet, and as Nick said previously, ANR setups rarely cover the entire spectrum of a machine's emmissions. In fact, you may have to ensure that your ANR device is attuned to your particular machine for best coverage because the ANR can actually accentuate some frequencies.

As mentioned by others, I find the ear plugs result in a much clearer avionics reception, less fatigue, and I find it easier to detect unusal sounds. Crewmen on the other hand, can find that they do not allow enough radio/ICS volume through when they have their heads outside the machine, so they can be a hazard from that perspective. Lastly, when you start using them, ensure that any audio warning systems are loud enough to be detected, ie low RRPM, fire, etc.

Lastly, plugs can also be fed them to anoying pax!! :D :D

Stan GLS, you will find opposite points of view to your helmet comments on the other threads dealing with helmets that you posted on. As to the radio volumes - think of it like adjusting your seat & harness - just something to do when getting in a different machine: you get that.

[Devil 49]

If I was starting all over again, I'd do the foam earplug thing from day one, and a good headset/helmet. Good all-around utility and reliability.

Earplugs in as I sit down-lots of things I want to hear happeningas I start the engines.

[quidam]

Haven't checked the links so don't know if these have been suggested.

My employer had me meaured for some ear plugs as an alternative to the foam squeezy ones! Bloke came down squeezed stuff into ear and ended up with a cast of my outer ear canal.

Two weeks later was given two sets of clear plastic plugs. Funny looking with a little sort of open vent in them. I wear them 9 hrs per working day riding a motorcycle without problem. Wind noise drastically reduced. The siren I'm sat above even sounds bearable, yet take the lid off and I can still hear a normal conversation perfectly without removing them.

Bloke tested them by sounding a rape alarm. Was really strange could hear the thing beeping although quietly and could also hear his voice at normal volume.

Don't know the tech stuff but apparantly they cut out/down certain damaging noise levels but leave the rest unaffected. Plastic tube thingy is vented so would also be ok with pressure changes.

Not tried them yet whilst flying.

No idea of cost, but I am aware company keep the casts so replacements can be easily made.

If anybody is interested I'll try and find out who made my set and how to contact them

[helipilotnz]

i am in the first class of helicopter students under the New Zealand loan scheme. we are having trouble finding new, good quality helmets. where does every one who wears them get them from? any advice on what to get along with where would be great.
thanks in advance
helipilotnz

[Off road]

Helipilotnz,

The following websites might be useful;

www.flighthelmets.com.au
for msa gallet helmets
or
www.chcaustralia.com
for alpha
or www.globalav.com.au
SPH-4

I use a msa gallet and find it very comfortable to fly with
Cheers
Off road

;)

[Mike Hardy]

You could also try www.aviationhelmets.com

[Steve76]

Hey Offroad,

Have you found your Gallet noisy compared to your last helmet?
Both mates of mine with them are disappointed with the noise attenuation.

[Off road]

Hi Steve,

I fly an EC 120 and before I had the gallet I wore a DC headset
and it it is a lot less noise with the helmet on even in the EC120 and I use gel earseals which I find comfortable to fly with. I have flown with the gallet for 3 years now and am happy.

cheers
Off road;)

[Captain Lai Hai]

I've had the Gallet LH 150 for about a year now and find it much more comfortable and also more secure particularly for long lining than the Alpha I previously had for around 10 years
The Gallet does not have as good noise attenuation as the Alpha but foam earplugs solve that very easily

I would reccommend a Gallet over the Alpha or Gentex anyday my personal preference of course

[clearance]

Just a quick question, Does the Gallet have the appropriate aviation approvals yet...????

:confused:

[pohm1]

Without wishing to be too negative, would it not be better to wait until you manage to find work before shelling out over $2000 for something which you may not get to use?
If you are lucky enough to get a break, some jobs such as flying scenics won't require, or even allow, a helmet.

[helipilotnz]

in New Zealand it seems to be up to the pilot to provide thier own helmet if they want one. i am approximatly six weeks away from cpl flight test but have decided to fund a c cat rating including the pic requirements and dont overly have high hopes of getting a job in the industry straight away, but i will try.
is a suspension harness better for sweat damage over a lined one?
helipilotnz

[skidbiter]

Why do you want to wear a helmet during flight training anyway? your flight examiner won't be wearing one, does not instil confidence to anyone. A human head enclosed in a helmet can become a lethal object to the headset wearing instructor or passenger when accelerated in their direction, thats if you can fit inside your R22 with one on in the first place.
You said in your first post - " i am in the first class of helicopter students under the New Zealand loan scheme " what have you failed your ppl seven times or something?, full student loan funding has been available for at least four years now, well from Helifright (NZ) anyway. Thats why there are so many people fighting over the loading jobs, one operator gets 50 - 60 C.V.s a year from CPLs........madness

[helipilotnz]

perhaps i am in error. four years ago i asked nzqa about the option for loans to fly helicopters and was told it was only set up for fixed wing tickets. i then got hold of all technical institutes who took the fixed wing diploma in aviation and hounded them till one got the helicopter syllabus put onto the nzqa frame work and therefore available for the loan scheme. i then moved the length of the country as i was led to believe that it was the first. i am in my second year of the two year diploma of aviation course and have passed all management papers so far along with the aviation exams. two more to go (cpl pof and cpl airtech) with one on wednesday. got my ppl(h) september last year. i have also started to fly fixed wing to get a instrument rating and will sit my commercial flight test (h) in about six weeks. i then start C cat time building and instrument flying with the aim to be finnished and looking for a job anywhere by christmas. yes i will be a low timer but i will have an instrument rating, ppl(a) c cat rating and a diploma in management.

my instructors have recommended to the class to get a helmet but is optional, i thought i would ask the experts opinions.

i have noticed not much room in the r22 and wont wear one if i get one for the flight test for that very reason.
thanks for any advice and appologise if i have been in error.
helipilotnz

[RobboRider]

Skidbiter

I'm afraid I'd have to say I couldn't disagree more with the opinion about why wear a helmet.

I put my first helmet on in 1997 when I was working on our rescue helicopter and when I decided to make the jump from the back seat to the front seat took my "work" helmet with me and have not done a single hour in the R22 without it since. (Just got up my 500th hour last wednesday)
There's enough room for most people in the robbo to get your skidlid in. I guess maybe if your were real tall you might have a problem, but then you probably wouldn't really fit in helmet or not.

As far as whether it looks good or instils confidence - I have adopted the attitude - I don't care what it looks like. If it stops me getting a head injury in a heavy landing or crash then its worth it. Even a minor closed head injury can render you unable to fly ever again or worse.

Given the stats that show the high incidence of accidents in training I would venture to suggest that that is exactly the time to be wearing it.

A helmetted head might flap around and injure the other occupant (but not a head injury if he's wearing his helmet too) but an unhelmetted head is just as bad. My Gentex is not that heavy - I reckon the biggest part of the weight by far is still the head inside it.

If your employer said "no lid no job" - well you have to weigh that risk up, but if they say "your choice" and you don't - mmm
don't expect any worker's compensation, disability insurance etc if you get a head injury. Your insurer will run a mile.

[helipilotnz]

three high time pilots i know offer differing opinions. one swears(and a lot) that a helmet saved his life in an accident. i have seen the helmet and its a mess. another has done mostly logging and has worn one out of habit. a third rejects the idea of wearing them and says by thinking of accidents (wearing a helmet) you will have one (he has'nt he tells me). i had to wear construction helmet when working in the trade and a motorcucle helmet on the road. i am safety minded and dont care what it looks like either.
thanks for the advice and opinions
helipilotnz

[Steve76]

If you can't see the value in wearing a helmet in a R22, then I suspect you will never see the value.

Skidbiter; you really need to get out more.
Look up the CAA accident reports and investigate the death of Glen Hemepo in Rotorua in 1998. The only mark on Glen was an impact to his right temple that would've certainly been avoided if he was wearing a helmet.
In the NT in 2000, one of our mustering lads ran an R22 into the planet at an estimated 70kts. Tore it all to bits as it tumbled over the MGB mast. We he awoke, he was on fire but alive thanks to his Alpha. Seen the damage to that one first hand.

Not only that; it is also illegal to ride a bicycle in NZ without a helmet....one would think it prudent to put one on your noggin inside a helo :confused:

Additionally, when you graduate to something with hydralics in the range of 3000psi, as sudden hardover of the servos could cause your brain to come in contact with the numerous sharp edges inside the big twins. Take a look at an S76 cockpit for example. In this situation not only will the helmet save your bacon but it will not come off your head like a headset will.

If you are going to spend the big bucks and go new then go Alpha. If you are going second hand (as I have...) then avoid the SPH4 (mesh interior) they have a nasty habit of snapping your neck with the sharp edge on the back of the helmet during a whiplash. Called a C4 break if I recall correctly. The mesh is also very uncomfortable. SPH5 is a better model.

Other than that, do what others have said and save your bucks....you are gonna need them. :ok:

[Spaced]

helipilotnz,
If you want to wear a hemet go for it. I have done almost all of my training in the Gentex SPH-5, in a R22. Alot of people at the school made fun calling it a crash helmet (like I care), but I wouldnt fly without it. Aside from being more comfortable than any headset I have worn, I feel better for the wearing.
I read a stroy about an Ag pilot who clipped a fence while turning around at the end of one run. As he realised what happened he shut the throttle and prepeared for impact.
After he came to he found he was unable to move his head, undid the strap of his helmet and pulled his head out. The entire weight of the helo was being suppoted by the helmet after rolling over. Needless to say he would have been severely injured at best without it.
If I was told I coulnt fly with a helmet Im not sure that I would. The majority of injuries from accidents in aircraft are to the head.

[Winnie]

SKIDBITER
Hi there,
I don't know what they do in the land of Oz, but here in Canada, most Transport Canada Inspectors and examinere (the ones I have had mys students fly with) always wears one. I always wear one, even just for ground runs! Why risk your head, your job and your life, when wearing one could perhaps save you? Think about birdstrikes, a two pound bird coming at you at even a puny speed of 70 knots will make a mess of your face, not to include the flying debris of windshield!
If the customer starts asking question such as "how come you're wearing a helmet and I'm not?" my answer would be: "I fly this thing all the time, you anly fly once!"

I don't want an accident, and I'm not looking for one, but I am well aware that they do happen, and they can happen to anyone!

In human factors we learn about hazardous attitudes, one of the is involnurability, or It won't happen to me, the proper antidote is: "It CAN happen to me!"

Just my 2 pence

[Jack S.]

look at the following, it's a picture of what spaced decribed.
http://www.tc.gc.ca/civilaviation/SystemSafety/Newsletters/tp202/2-00/538.htm

[TinKicker]

To wear a helmet or not to wear a helmet........that is the question.

In my job I have witnessed first hand what happens when it all goes wrong and the pilots involved did not have an accident in mind when they prepared for their flights.

One did not even get off the ground.........was not wearing a helmet and is no longer with us. Another was in the midst of a very tough job and had it all go to hell in a handbasket very quickly.......was wearing a helmet and is still with us. Sobering facts but true.

I personally wear a helmet and wore one all through my CPL (H) training. I even wore one when I did a lot of door off fixed wing flying......it was the only way to hear the radio. I have 3 that I wear at different times when flying helos (Alpha x 1 and SPH4B x2, as well as 8 others in a personal collection APH-1 through to new Alpha (all mint and unissued)) and they all fit inside an R22.

The decision is ultimately yours but what price do you put on your life..........I know what I put on mine and the cost of a helmet is a small fraction of that.

Tinkicker...........

[Hughesy]

Im just looking at maybe buying a helmet, so far have looked at the Gentex and the Gallet. I was just wondering about what others in the industry think about helmets. Any advice given is greatfully received.
Hughesy. :D

[the wizard of auz]

I would imagine it would be because the real clever people that designed intercoms and radios put a volume control on them, therefore to save cost on the helmet they really aint required. ;)

[OVERTALK]

What's a second hand Gentex Helmet cost? (i.e. with a carry-bag and both a clear and dark visor)?

Does it come with a boom mike?

[Captain Lai Hai]

My employer provides helmets and flying suits for the pilots our choice and I went for the Gallet LH150 after 10 years with an Alpha and prior to that a Gentex SPH4.
In my opion the Gallet is far superior to the other products and the service from Trevor Norris Flight Helmets Australia was very good.
The noise attenuation with the Gallet probably isn't as good as the Alpha but that is easily overcome with the use of foam ear plugs.
The Gallet for me is much more comfortable (no pressure spots like the Alpha) feels more secure and has less wind noise when long lining.
I have heard however that it may not be crash worthy certified like the Alpha's maybe somebody can confirm or deny that.

Ask around what people are using and their reccomendations this is the right forum for that info.

Fly safe

[straitman]

I seem to remember the dual visor setup on a Gallet looked "a bit suss"

After having been around the Alpha & Gentex for many years I'd certainly look at the Gallet. Much newer technology and a lot more user friendly (less bulky) in a/c with overhead switch panels.

:cool:

[crop duster]

I got mine from Mid Continent Aircraft. It's a form fitted helmet. The kit comes with a wax mold that you use to make an impression of your head. On a long day I typically wear it for up to 12-14 hours a day. If interested, call Doug @1-800-325-0885.
Barryb

[B Sousa]

I was curious the other day and went to the ebay site to see if any Helmets were out there. Seems a lot of folks have them for sale. www.ebay.com
I have a couple myself Im almost ready to part with, but shipping them outside the U.S. could be a pain....Check out ebay and search for flight helmets. It will give you some prices and pictures.

[Hughesy]

Thanks guys for your advice!:ok: I did forget to ask what people thought about the retention types. Either the older style webbing or the new Comfor Liner systems found in the newer helmets. Whaddya reckon?:confused:

[Winnie]

HGU84/P With Navy style Visors and no NVG mount
Slightly expensive, but well worth the dough!

With the TPL Liner and a skull cap (Skull cap mostly to absorb the sweat, so that you don't have to wash the liner every other week)

Have the nev ZETA Liner on order from Oregon Aero, and I am gleefully awaiting delivery!!

The helmet looks like the style fighterpilots use, but is built for helicopters, witout the "Giant" earcups. Comfy to wear, and good facial protection, since the visors cover a larger area. The only "bad issue" is that the visors are clumsy to handle with one hand, but then again, I rarely move them until after the flight is over.

My tuppence:ok:

[currawong]

I'm with Winnie on that one.

Tried Alpha, not very robust but comfortable.

Tried Gentex SPH4/5, very robust but just too BIG. Head gets stuck in some single place cockpits!

Settled on Gentex HGU 33, with leather interior. From www.flightsuits.com. Their service is very good.

www.watkinsaviation.com does a line in used surplus.

Buyer beware on used - they may have been dropped or gone for a swim. Is it worth the risk? I used one - saved me from a nasty bump on the head, retired it straight away.

Also you may want to check out the cost of replacement visors before you choose which configuration.

Good luck

[Aesir]

I use the CGF Gallet and I would recommend it to anyone. I´ve used for over 3 years and 1500hrs now and not had any problems.

Mine has an ANR noise reduction system and volume knob. It´s really a noise buster! although I hate to have to remove the 9 volt battery every 10 hrs to recharge it but after flying a whole day after forgetting to recharge I´ll remember. It really makes a difference to have the ANR system.

Its good to have avolume knob because I used to do alot of instructing and if you fly with lot of different types of people with different headset or helmet types then sometimes a volume setting which is comfortable to your fellow aviator will not be good for yourself, so its not enough to simply adjust the volume on the radio or intercom (Single ICS setup!).

The helmet is lightweight, not bulky and the dual visor setup works fine. I have a dark and a yellow visor. The yellow is used in white out conditions which I fly a lot in. However it doesn´t work in all different light conditions for white-out flying!

Somebody mentioned that he´d heard it was not "Crash approved" !!! I sure the company can provide information on chrash test´s but I´m sure there is a limit to all helmets chrashworthiness?

I do not recomend buying a used old helmet! Motorcycle helmets have a life limit of I think 5 or 6 years, I´m sure there is a limit to the life of a helicopter helmet until the composite material becomes brittle, I would at least not take the chance.

Bought the helmet from a company in Florida.

[Galapagos]

Bought a Gallet about 3 months ago.

Very comfortable and lightweight. Mic boom too long you have to curve it so it sits in front of your mouth and doesn't always stays in place. Love the visor system with the spring loaded exterior visor. Comes really low (if you want it too) and covers the entire opening of the helmet so there is no sun coming from the sides reflecting inside the visor (probably good too for stoping the wind if you're long lining with your head outside). Love the chin strap because it is comfortable and easy to clip in and out. Nice to have one visor inside the shell as it reduces the bulkiness of the helmet. Comes with a visor protector (finally!!!). Took a long time for them to figure out that we don't wear it to watch TV! Pricey to have the carbon fiber visor protector with the NVG mount (around $1000 CDN).

The story is... do I wear my helmet? NO! Because its LOUD IN THERE!!! I had to return it to the distributor (6 weeks and counting...) after trying to get use to it. It gave me headaches and felt so much more tiring after even a short flight. I tried the good old ear plugs (...as Boycie would say! :-) ) but just not practical when you fly with customers or in a crew environment to have the radios cranked all the way up (especially if the other pilot has a helmet without a volume control... of course!!!

The distributor sent it to France so the highly skilled engineer at MSA could try to figure out what is going on. Another pilot from our base got one at the same time I did and he returned it as well. They supposedly changed some foams and the earcups seals. We'll see if it does make a difference... suppose to get it back any day now. Will let you know.

I have a friend who owns one with the ANR and loves it so it seems like the way to go if you have an extra $1000 to spend... might have to do that if the modifications didn't improve the noise level.

For your information... I use to own a Gentex SPH-5 for 5 years. Not the best one out there but found that it was a good buy for your money. Only problems could be the bulkiness and weight. Especially for longlining when you have a weak neck!

[Hughesy]

Thanks guys for all your info! I ended up going with the Gentex, and I used it for the first time on frost protection. (my first commercial work! :D )
I found it very comfortable to wear and it kept my head warm! Plus it looked good when arriveing at my block with some female workers hanging about!:ok: :E :E :} :}
So thanks again for all your help.
Fly safe
Hughesy

[WLM]

I would like to refresh the look of my faithful SPH4. What kind of paint can I use and are they special preparation of the helmet to be done. I am currently in the far East where some supplies are a little hard to come by.:O

[crop duster]

WLM, first thing you need to do is remove anything that is easily removed like boom mics, snaps, etc... Then lightly sand the painted part of the helmet with 400 or 600 grit sand paper or what I like is a 3M product called a Scotch Brite pad. You might find a simular pad near the kitchen sink. Anything that will clean and deglaze the paint will work. Then mask off the areas that you don't want to get paint on like the edge roll and the inside. I forgot to mention that if the surface has gouges they need to be feathered out until you can't feel them with your finger nail. Clean the surface with Acetone or Lacquer thinner. Then get someone that can use and has access to a good quality poly-urethane paint to apply to helmet surface. Three coates should be enough. It sounds easy and it's not hard but the preparation is the secret to getting a good paint job. Take short cuts and it will show up.

I personally like Alumigrip paint. You can paint your helmet with it and once it is cured you can throw it around or bang you head against the doors or windows and it will stay if the surface was clean and applied right.

Barry

[B Sousa]

www.flightsuits.com
They do good work. Fedex will get it there and back........

[bellsux]

I would recommend stripping all the bits off and sanding it down with some 3M paper 300 then 600. Do this just to remove the paint and try to keep most of the old primer on. Then mask it off with some good quality tape. I myself would not use any chemicals to clean it as your best bet would then be to take it to a car smash repair shop and get the painter to spray some primer and a two pack coat over it using leftovers of what ever cars that are in the shop, he will also prep the surface with the right stuff. The amount of cars that go through those places means you can get the colour you want and they will do the job without your bone dome looking like an orange skin or big drips down the side.

[international hog driver]

If you after a good design get in contact with some of the motorsporting clubs. These guys are dead keen on unique paint jobs and that’s how I had mine done.

Finished product is great mine has a blue & silver flys eye pattern on the visor shield that splits into a rams horn on the sides over the speaker bludges.
On the back is a cartoon character….. which one would be telling too much.

Cheers
:ok:

[Bladestrike]

Be careful, it's quite easy to compromise the integrity of your helmet.

Certain paints can weaken the shell, as can sanding prior to painting. As well, I've been told that even a slight edge, as in a paint line, could catch and transfer crash loads to your neck/cranium. The finish can affect this as well.

Personally I think its a tad extreme, and I went ahead and painted my old SPH4 with Tremclad spraypaint from our local Canadian Tire Store.....but I doubt the crash worthiness was quite on par with what the original provided.

(.....some pious arse reamed me out AFTERWARDS when he saw the repainted helmet, but my "new" SPH5 has enough scratches already that I'd hardly be concerned about the affect a repaint would have)

Give Flightsuits a call, they'll give you the skinny.

[ShyTorque]

I once painted mine like a snake to frighten the wife. I poked it round the bedroom door and....OH, SORRY, you meant FLIGHT helmet....... :O

:E

[NickLappos]

And we thought you were SHY torque!! Was it glow-in-the-dark paint?

[ShyTorque]

No Nick,

But it glowed in the dark for a while after the thinners and wire brush needed to remove it.

And it didn't scare her. She just said "No thanks, I roll my own".

;)

[WLM]

:D Thank you very much for the helpful tips
WLM:ok:

[Flingwing207]

DO NOT USE ACETONE ON A FIBERGLASS (or fibreglass) HELMET! :eek:

It will most certainly destroy it. :sad:

[ShyTorque]

I concur; NEVER use acetone on your helmet :uhoh:

[Randy_g]

Just for your info, Flightsuits does a nice job, but it can take 6 weeks to get it back. I took mine to them several years ago to get refurbished, and it took almost 8 weeks to get it back. They did a great job too.

Cheers

[B Sousa]

In defense of Flightsuits. I just had an SPH-4 modified from Military to Civilian..........Back here in two weeks....... Thats no painting, but Im satisfied......call them and ask

[WLM]

B Sousa
Did you keep the original canvas liner or switch to a TPL liner? The reason for my question is to justify spending $108 for the TPL liner kit.
I have just finished sanding the helmet, looks OK, now onto the next stages...
Thanks
WLM:O

[B Sousa]

I had the SPH4B which had the TPL. Flightsuits told me the liner kit was $37 and change. I hope we were on the same sheet of music. I have an old sph4 which someone could have for $75 plus shipping. Its military so would have to be modded..... and needs the TPL liner

[Steve76]

I have a good 2001 SPH5 for sale.

White, with about 2 years part time on it. Above average condition because we work EMS 4 on, 4 off and only fly half that time......???
Figure out the math yourself. Comes with all avionics, liner and I think it has a bag around here somewhere.

Wanting $1000 Canadian + buyer pays the shipping.

Can send a photo if you want. I have an average headsize (which means nothing so I should measure it I guess....?)

[email protected]

Steve :D

[Ascend Charlie]

Hey, Infernal Hog Driver,

i don't suppose R'n'R Speed Sports could do the paint job?

And I always thought you didn't do what I asked you to do because you were hard of hearing - glad to see it was your "speaker bludgers" that were the cause!!!:zzz:

[international hog driver]

Yes AC

Maybe my speaker bludgers are hard of hearing!!!!!

Mind you, sitting between PT6s ever since has made me even more deaf.

Showed this to bergs and even she laughed……..

Maybe you are the best person to edit the book too!!!!!!!

Cheers
I’ll call when back from the UK.
:ouch: :{ :hmm: :ok:

[RDRickster]

In a recent thread search, I found dozens of posts on PPRuNe about helmets. However, most of the discussions focused on what type to wear and how to modify them. I even found one thread (circa 2001) that discusses the pros and cons of wearing helmets in helicopters at all.

There is some great background information already posted, but I'd like to hear your opions on whether or not to wear helmets in small helicopters. Specifically, do you wear a helmet in any of the following:

B2B, R22, B47, UH-12, 280FX/F28F, 300C/CB/CBi
(any other 2-3 place helicopter that I forgot)

Also, please tell us what kind of flying are you doing (recreational, casual, line patrol, training, time building, instruction, etc). I'm already preparing for the arguement that there should NOT be any distinction between larger helicopters and 2-3 place helicopters where the use of helmets are concerned.

If you feel that helmets are a must for any helicopter, please defend your position. Personally, I don't wear a helmet when flying because most of my flying is casual or time building. If I were flying line patrol or in remote wilderness locations, a helmet would be part of my mission profile.

[pilotwolf]

I ve got one. Started customising it and lost a screw... never got around to ordering a new one.

Biggest thing I ve flown is the 206 and now will mostly be the Hughes 269...

Bit like a growbag... do you wear it and be 'safe' or not wear it for fear of looking silly?

[TinKicker]

G'Day,

I wear one in R22/R44 and H269. I fly mostly for private ops.

I have a number of helmets (collector of them) and a few are in flyable condition. SPH3/4/4B and Alpha fit on my head and into the helos without any problem. I am 5"11" and they do not cause me any concern.

My job takes me to the sites of many helo and aircraft accidents and from what I see, I will always wear a helmet when flying.

Tinkicker..........

[bugdevheli]

When testing homebuilds it is adviseable to wear a full face helmet worn over a kevlar balaclava plus a full set of police riot gear topped with cricket pads. Boxing gloves give reasonable protection to the hands and assist in making the turning of the start key a difficult process. The only downside to all this protection is the time required to disrobe in order the answer a call of nature in the event of a misshap

[Steve76]

I wear mine in all models I fly.
I even wore it on the bike once.....but it looked a bit silly.

I have 2 SPH5 helmets for sale for $1000 canadian each. Only 2 years old and used about 300hrs total (...if that) I have personally had two friends die that would've survived the crash if they had the helmets on. How much is your life worth?

You pay shipping.
PM me if you are interested.

:ok:

[RDRickster]

What is an SPH5?

[snoopymagnolia]

RD,

The SPH-5 is a model of Gentex helmet.

I feel a helmet is a good idea for helicopters for the following reasons:

1. Bird strikes,
2. Bump and scratch protection in survivable crash events,
3. Ditching when you need to stay consciuos to effect your own egress, and
4. Added noise attenuation (particularly when combined with CEP) over a headset.

Cheers
SM

[WLM]

A crash does not make the difference between a private or airwork flight. So the helmet is a good investment to minimise possible serious injuries.
Ask yourself why the Defense personel always wear one.
The real question is the look and concerns from your passengers sometimes. I simply tell them that it is my best hearing protection against the exposed time we spend in our noisy environment. They mostly agree and understand that the short time they may spend during their trip, is not the same, hence a headset instead.
It becomes a little harder with my CEO onboard sometimes:hmm:

[Thomas coupling]

Changed your mind yet RD??

What is the difference between an hour building flight and a line patrol. Cumulo granite still tastes the same :=

[Corr]

Always. always , always wear a helmet - no matter the size of the machine - better to feel "overdressed" than end up in a rehab ward talking to yourself and dribbling ! I know the state of my better half's helmet after a crash and if he hadn't been wearing it he would either be a cabbage or DEAD !

Look after your brain ... its possibly the only one you've got !

[ditchy]

I've said this before, but it's worth repeating. I don't have the exact percentages right, but its something close to this.

In the early eighties, the Canadian MOT or Accident Investigation released statistics on helicopter accidents in Canada and of all the fatalities, in around 85% of cases death was caused by head injury and of that 85%, 45% had NO OTHER injury at all. In other words many of that 45% would have walked away had they been wearing helmets.

In smaller machines, a pilots head is close on all sides to consoles, airframe, even engines and transmissions.

Obviously some of the accidents would not have been survivable and I don't remember all the details now, but the message is clear.

[Spaced]

Im training in the R22 and I always wear mine. I have a SPH-5, which I was lucky enough to pick up second hand from another pilot I knew.
To use your new survival gear youll have to be conscious RD :ok:
Go through accident reports and stories and they are just littered with stories of guys who would have survived had they had a helmet. Dont forget death isnt the worth thing. A good whack to the head and youll spent the rest of your life being spoon fed.
As has already been mentioned its much quieter inside the helmet. I personally find the helmet much more comfortable than a headset as well.
One more thing, I find that in the 22 I fly without doors 99% of the time, so a little extra protection never goes astray.
I seriously doubt that I would fly without it now.
Fly Safe.

[RDRickster]

All good points... something to consider. I wonder why I don't see anybody else where helmets in 2-3 place helicopters... EVER. Not that I'm a Lemming and will follow everyone else off the same cliff... just curious. How about some comments from instructors. I've flown with at least a dozen different CFI's, and I haven't seen any of them wear or even recommend a helmet. Perhaps those reasons are related to WLM's (not to intimidate new students).

[RobboRider]

I always wear my SPH5. Have been flying for about seven years and haven't flown without it for about six and a half of those seven years. I fly an R22.

I have asked other pilots who do commercial ops with tourist type flying or flying schools, why they don't wear a helmet and they all have said words to the effect, "I know I should but...." and add to it "passengers get a bit nervous when they see me in helmet and they've got a set of headphones."
Doesn't stop me though. I use mine all the time. It's my brain that'll get rattled around in a crash.

[RDRickster]

Does anybody have any problems wearing glasses with your helmet? I've been told the side bands can get a bit uncomfortable after a while. Thanks in advance.

[WLM]

Spectacles can be comfortably worn, depending on the frame type. the thinner the frame, the easier it fits. Using soft seal for the earcup like gel types for example, is helpful as well as reducing the amount of possible noise intrusion caused by the spectacle's arms. Hope this helps:D

[RDRickster]

Thanks... I truly love flying with the Bose Aviation-X headsets because the ANR is very impressive. IMHO, the sound cancellation is stellar and it actually increases your ability to hear "strange sounds" from your helicopter vs. standard headsets.

Anyway, I've been converted by the crew at PPRuNe... mainly because I just can't come up with an argument for NOT wearing a helmet. The pros simply outweight the cons by a mile.

Any recommendations on ANR capable helmets?

Gentex vs. Alpha vs. Gallet?

Gentex website is http://www.gentex.net/LifeSupport/HS-Home.htm, but I couldn't find the MAIN websites for the Alpha and Gallet. Can anybody post those links and give some advice?

[Rotorbike]

Gallet is here (http://www.gallet.fr/index_new_uk.htm)

:cool:

[mickjoebill]

Speaking from the "professional"passenger point of view as a aerial cameraman,
I wear a helmet.

After spending a week filming with HEMS in the early days I asked the crew why the police ASU wore helmets but they did not. They agreed that it was perverse; that they would land at the scene of a car accident to pickup a critical patient often with a head injury, yet they themselves had no head protection.

A few years later I flew with them again and helmets were madatory.

In fact I wear a helmet or skate board crash hat, whenever I am shooting from a moving vehicle as having a 10 kilo camera on ones shoulder in a moving vehicle is a daft occupation in the first place.

A skateboard helmet costs less than £20!


Mickjoebill

[RotorDompteur]

I couldn’t agree with you more. Helmets should allways be used.

However sometimes it can be practically impossible to introduce a new habbit in an old company.
Neither the boss nor the costumers understands why, after 20 years, it suddenly has become necessary to wear a helmet…

In that case a green pilot can argue as much as he wants… :(

You meet answers like “Do you want to scare the customers…?” :rolleyes:


RD

[the wizard of auz]

I am thinking of upgrading from my Gentex SPH-4 to something else (maybe the 5) anyone interested in purchasing my old one?.( in fairly good nick).
anyone got a 5 or alpha they wann sell?

[nulian]

I've not used a helmet before - I fly R22s and never seen anyone use one. After reading this thread, however, I've decided to obtain one.

The Gentex SPH5 seems to be the helmet of choice here - my concern is mainly headroom in the R22 - I'm 6'1 and wonder if I'd fit with a helmet.

.

[WLM]

Wizard of Oz
Steve76 is selling a couple of SPH5, have a look at his posting earlier on, or in another thread called Helmet paiting I posted 2 weeks ago.

Nulian
From talking with other drivers, it seems the gallet is the better one for you due to a lower profile.

;)

[Spaced]

nulian, Im 5'11", and I fit Ok in the 22. However it does sem to depend on the 22. In our NVFR ship, the seat is higher than the other ships, and my helmet (SPH-5) rubs a little, meaning I have to slouch a little. I believe that the HGU- 56 (army), and the HGU - 84 (navy, marines), are a slimer profile. Other wise the alpha or the gallet may be the ay to go. The good thing about the SPH-5 is there are lots around, and available second hand.

[nulian]

Any specific model of the Gallet helmet you would recommend?

[Red Wine]

The very quick answer is:.....None.

Professional EMS/SAR folk here in Oz that decided to trial them are now going back to Alpha's and Gentex.......

[Steve76]

Guys and Gals,

I could go onto E-bay with this but I wanted to make sure that the word got out into the helo community first.

I have a great source for used Gentex SPH5 helmets for new or old pilots.

They are used in an Air Ambulance operation by medics and are in the 1 - 3 year old range. All have dual visors and are white in colour. They are used about 2hrs a week on average and some have not been used for a year or so.

They come equiped with all avionics and the standard SPH5 liner.

Sizes vary from Medium to XL.

At this time I have 3 available. One is an XL absolutely the closest thing to brand new as it has only been used 4 times.

The others are mediums and have a few scratches on the top of them where the guys place them down on the ground while attending to a patient. NONE have been dropped.

I remember when I started I paid $800 for a beat up old SPH4 with the internal strap system that gave me a monster headache. In comparison these are half the weight and twice the comfort.

The XL is going for $1100 dollars canadian normally $1800 new. I have photos and that I can send to a buyer.

The others are going for $1000 canadian each, but I may be able to negociate them cheaper.

Buyer pays for shipping to worldwide.

I want to see these helmets go to people who are going to use them. I will make sure they are cleaned and in good working condition. If you have any troubles with them you can send it back and I will refund your purchase price ...... you have my word.

They will eventually go onto ebay and into the US market so if you are interested email me at [email protected] and I will send you pictures.

There will be more as time goes and as I get them I will put out the word. :ok:

[Aesir]

Nulian

I use the Gallet LH250 with ANR and I am happy with the headroom as I fly B206L which has not very much room expecially on the LH side.

However I believe the LH050 gives you even more headroom as the visor is internal only versus the LH250 has dual internal and external visors.

If you only need one solar smoked screen then the 050 might be the ticket for you! You will not get lower profile helmet anywhere, I think.

[twistair]

Sorry, guys, I realize that this question was asked here for years but I surprisingly found that search function is disabled on this forum, so:
could somebody point me out to the place where helicopter helmets are discussed. I'm looking for helmet for small helo/ enclosed autogyro with small cockpit.

Thanks in advance,

Alex



Here's the thread you wanted.
All part of the world-famous Rotorheads service. :D

Heliport

[twistair]

Thanks!

Rotorheads Forum forever! :ok:

[too young to die]

At the end of the day, the helmet prevents you (more than likely) from being knocked out (and there have been many thousands of examples of this) therefore preventing you hopefuly from being burnt to death while knocked out, hence escape. Pax tourists or what ever, got to look after number one, besides it looks the part!

[the wizard of auz]

Steve76, mate, I am interested in a medium size.
had a drama trying to email so heres my expresion of interest.
would love a picture to have a look at. [email protected]
cheers, Wiz

[Steve76]

OK Wiz....
I just saw this message and have a couple arriving this weekend. I will check them out and get back to you at that address.

Email your head size in CM or IN to me at
[email protected]

Cheers bro,
Have fun out there
Steve

[Flingingwings]

As yet I've never flown with a helmet :(

Appreciate that any supplier will let me try one on in the shop but do any in the UK let you 'borrow' one so that you can actually try flying with it:confused:

My only concern is headroom. At 6'2" theres very little spare room in a 22 and given the cost I'd sleep easier if I could try before I buy

[B47]

Has anyone any experience of the David Clark helmet that incorporates existing headsets? I know it looks mickey mouse compared to a pro Gentex, but as a PPL having invested in decent DC headsets and also converted them to ANR, the DC helmet would seem to be a sensible option and save junking the headsets.

PPLs have a simple decision to make - no complications over paying passenger's reactions, etc. Seems if we're honest, the only factor is fear of being laughed at. As a 100hr a year B47 private pilot, having followed this thread from the beginning, it seems I'd be mad not to wear something to protect me from a potentially fatal crack on the side of the head in a roll-over.

'Yes Mrs B47 widow, he did a good auto after engine failure but the only field available was soft and ploughed. He did his best, but with no wind that day, he still had a little forward speed on touchdown. The aircraft rolled over and he died from a blow to the head from the sharp edges on the B47 door frame.....'

And a Sioux on its side throws 200 ltrs of Avgas over a red-hot turbo, so even if you're only knocked out......

Seems protecting my wife from that scenario should be more important that worrying about 'does my head look silly in this?'

Also, the glare with the 'no roof' B47 bubble forces you to wear some kind of peak or visor. Anyone know where to find visors and peaks that fix to the DC helmet? DC say many aftermarket ones fit, but no-one can tell me where to get them.


(advice on zero auto touchdowns in nil wind not required..!)

[chopperpilot47]

Had to wear flying helmets and in a previous life and it was something that we didn't even think about. It was compulsory so that was that. I now fly training helicopters primarily and sometimes wear a helmet. If I am doing sightseeing where there is a constant change of passengers I usually don't wear one, more to interact with the punters than for any other reason.

I think there is no argument that helmets save lives and give you a much better chance when it all goes wrong. I also think you should wear a nomex suit and gloves but we don't always do that, do we?

[McShrek]

Good to see so much world wide common sense towards the use of a lid in helicopters. Until recently I was working for an offshore operator, and having come from an aerial work environment, continued to wear my sph5.
The response from within the company was extraordinary. After a number of conversations with managment in which my desire to wear head protection was repeatedly questioned I was finally threatened with disciplinary action/dismisal (one to one and behind closed doors of course) if I failed to comply with the company policy (which was now being quickly constructed in an office somewhere else) which apparently forbid pilots to wear head protection whilst working for them.
My feelings went something like, liferafts, lifejackets, underwater escape training and passenger evacuation training are all made some what redundant if you've knocked yourself out during a forced landing/crash. My brief research suggested that even in a relatively survivable crash, statistically this was likely to happen. I pointed out that for my money you may as well throw the life rafts etc in to the stormy ogin and take the extra payload.However, this was seen as a flippant remark and thrown out immediatley.
I was amazed by the attitudes I encountered and saddened by the lack of support I recieved. I now work somewhere else as free thinking individual, because my life is more important than my pay cheque.
Look after you head, it's constantly looking after you. It doesn't take much to break it, even one as thick as mine. Take care and safe flying.






;)

[RotorDompteur]

FYI:
According to MSA Gallet the LH helmets has the following spec:

Protection against impact:
- MIL-DTL-87174/A

Protection against perforation of the shell and outer visor:
- MIL-DTL-87174/A

Resistance of the retention system in accordance with standards:
- EN 966:1996

Audio protection:
Passive attenuation of LH Helmet – ANSI S312.42 1995 (MIRE method)

Heat and fire protection: flame retardant outside coating.

The visors are in accordance with standard MIL-V-43511B and EN 1836:1997.



That may not count as an approval stamp - but it can't be that bad...

RD

[The Nr Fairy]

Saw the following piccie, thought it was too good not to share . . .

http://www.fototime.com/347803C8C20216E/standard.jpg

[Heliport]

FODCOM 11/04
Issued: 26 May 2004

Recommends Operators implement procedures to require all crew members wear protective flying helmets when conducting underslung load operations. WEARING OF PROTECTIVE HELMETS BY CREW MEMBERS ENGAGED IN UNDERSLUNG LOAD OPERATIONS

1.1 History
1.1.1 In the Air Accidents Investigation Branch (AAIB) report following the investigation into a recent accident involving the carriage of underslung loads by a UK registered helicopter, the safety benefit of flight crew wearing protective flying helmets was highlighted.
1.1.2 The CAA, in consultation with the British Helicopter Advisory Board, agrees that the wearing of these protective flying helmets by flight crew members would provide them with an additional level of safety and protection, but feels that this should be applicable to all crew members carried in the aircraft during
underslung load operations.

1.2 Recommendation
1.2.1 Operators are recommended to implement procedures to require that all crew members wear protective flying helmets when conducting underslung load operations.

[Oogle]

The military has requisitioned many studies on the benefits of helmets and I believe that the civilian world should take note.

I certainly believe that ALL EMS operators should wear them as a matter of course due to the unknown missions that are asked of the crew.

The number of US EMS operators not wearing helmets surprises me no end. Get your crews into them. How many head injuries do you guys respond to each year on the road? Doesn't that hit home at all? Throw a comb in your pocket if you are worried about "helmet hair".

UK and Australian aircraft flying EMS/SAR all wear helmets. Seems to be the norm Down Under. Can't comment on other parts of the globe.
:ok:

[tagg]

I`m in the process of purchasing a helmet for police ops, has anybody got any idea what type of microphone I would need? ie dynamic or electret.

The company I`m buying from want to know the impedence level etc. But none of the engineers seem to know.

I won`t be able to speak to an avionics engineer until next week so I thought I`d try here.

Thanks for any help.

[sandy helmet]

Chances are if you're in the UK (in my limited experience), you would have the low impedance NATO setup.

[WLM]

I replaced the original mic on my SPH4 (Civilian) with an electret 2 years ago. It was ok but changed recently to a David Clark Dynamic amplified mic (from 10.34 headset) and it is a lot easier for ATC to understand your voice in a noisy cockpit. :D

[handysnaks]

Why are you buying one? won't you be supplied with one?:confused:

[tagg]

Thanks for your replies,

I`m not paying for it just been asked to source one.

We had an Alpha Eagle helmet on order for about 7 months but they keep mucking us about.

I`m looking at the Gallet LH250 helmet at the minute. Just trying to get the comms sorted out.

[Tony Chambers]

have you contacted headset services at shoreham? tell them exactly what you need and they can get you the correct helmet, mike etc.

[currawong]

Low impedence = around 8 - 17 ohms

High impedence = around 300 ohms

Civil aircraft VHF radios use high impedence, as do UHF CB type radios.

Military aircraft use low impedence setups.

Low impedence mics, M87 and M101, can be amplified to high impedence with a plug in amp. Both are dynamic mics.

Electret mics tend to be high impedence. Stand to be corrected.

Seems to be important in multi crew to have every one the same. Seems electricity, like water, takes the easiest way, so whoever has the lowest impedence gets all the electricity.

Thats how it was explained to me (I think)

Best bet? Have a look at what everyone else is using and get the same.

[belly tank]

Hi Guys,

Im after a helmet either a gentex SPH5 OR Alpha, locally in Australia would be preferred and in good condition.

I know they are like as rare as rocking horse S*%T but one of you guys may know where i can get a hold of one

Cheers

BT

[currawong]

belly tank,

Try www.fieldair.com.au classifieds section.

Seriously though, consider buying new, the cost difference is not huge and you know what you are getting.

www.flightsuits.com are worth a look - bought new from them for what some people pay for used.

[the wizard of auz]

Woz one advertised in the aviation trader this month.

[belly tank]

Currawong,

Thanks champ. i will have a look. i wanted one for my crewie, i will most likely go a new one that way you know what your getting. but thanks guys for the info. i Bought a Alpha new from a distributer here they are a good helmet but it took me 6 months to get it after being ordered. I cannot wait this long this time.

cheers

[nzl75]

Mark mackay at helipro in nz sells reconditioned SPH 4b's and 5's.
for around 900 to 1000 nzd

His phone no. is ++ 64 27 245 9490.

There is currently a recon SPH4B at www.trademe.co.nz going for $900nzd

I know what you mean about flightsuits, i've given up dealing with them.

good luck mate.

woops, you don\'t mean flight suits at all.
As for that alpha dealer, do you know there are 2 alpha dist. in aussie now??

[belly tank]

Thanks guys . ive located one by the looks of it!

cheers and thanks for your help

[B Sousa]

I have one for sale, but the price would choke a horse. I just built on from a new SPH-4B. Sent it to www.flightsuits.com and had the earphones and mike replaced to be adaptable with civilian Helicopters. Next it went to www.smokinpaint.com Where it was painted a beautiful Baby Blue and dual visors installed. Last was the addition of a lip light in both green and xenon by www.seitzinc.com
So with all the money in it, I cant even advertise it for sale. Guess I will have to enjoy it. (But for $1200 U.S you can have it and a new Blue Nomex flight suit........)

Also if you want to find helmets try www.ebay.com I have seen a few there also.

[trackdirect]

BT,

I have a SPH 5 Medium in good nick it you are interested, check your PMs.

Or if anyone else is interested AU $1000.

Spare visors and assorted bits also.

[Islander Jock]

Hey Wiz,
I hope the one in the Aviation Trader isn't the same piece of crap you have bouncing around the floor of your Landcruiser?:}

Belly Tank,
I just did a quick search, there are a few listed on EBAY.

[the wizard of auz]

thats a bit harsh IJ. My kids spent hours working on that piece of art. ;)
currently in nagotiations for a replacement...........that will probably recieve the same treatment from the monst........er......kids. :\

[Islander Jock]

Gotta admit Wiz, I did like the bullet hole effect. :cool:

[the wizard of auz]

Me too. I think they'll be added to the new one. ;)

[TORQUEMETER]

Hi all,
Ive been looking around for a helmet to replace my old gentex. Im seriously looking at the CGF Gallet models but cant find any one who has one. Any one had any experience with these?

Cheers and keep it upright!!

TM

[crewman 355]

The GALLET helmet is fantastic its comfotable and light , much better tha the other choices .

[Captain Lai Hai]

I've had a Gentex ,Alpha and now using the Gallet LH 150 which in my opinion is far superior to the other brands in comfort and consrtuction quality.

The noise attention is not as good as the Alpha and so I use foam earplugs to compensate.

Trevor Norris from Flight Helmets Australia is the authorized dealer in Oz and I highly reccomend his services

Fly Safe

[Hughesy]

Hi All.
Just wondering if anyone has spare parts or know where to get them for Gentex helmets.

Im after the two parts which the visor slides up and down. They cover the visor mounts.(not sure what they are called).
Prefer white, but can repaint.
Cheers for any help.

Hughesy

[helimatt]

Hughesy
Try www.aviationhelmets.com
or www.flightsuits.com
I've used the former and found them to be very useful and inexpensive
Cheers:ok:

[Hughesy]

Excellent, cheers Helimatt.
:D :ok:

[Winnie]

TryFlighthelmet (http://www.flighthelmet.com) for spares as well, used parts, but cheaper...:ok:

[Spaced]

Thinking about upgrading my SPH-5.
Is any one flying with the new Gentex HGU series?
Trying to decide between that or a Gallet, thoughts appreciated.

[Squirrel]

I've had an HGU56 for about 4 yrs now and am very happy with it. Replaced an old heavy SPH4. I needed as much headroom as possible (I'm tall). I specifically tried on compared the CGF with the 56 side by side & in a headroom limited 206 and the 56 was more compact on top and gave about 1" more headroom - also I like the covered dual visor, vs. the exposed variety or the one with a removable cover, also I found it more comfortable and it is relatively light. I upgraded the liner and earcups with Oregon Aero ones.

It looks quite big (wide) when on, but the top is flat and works well with the Astar long-line window. One negative is if you are flying a longline with the door off and stick your head out when in cruise, the width does catch the wind and will tug your head pretty good - you learn not to stick your head out to far at any real speed. If you are in very dusty conditions I found you have to clean the tracks that the visors run on occasionally (when they become sticky), but other wise, not problems.

I first went for a Large, but had to exchange for a Medium - my hat size is 71/4".

[Spaced]

Thanx squirrel, I havent been able to find any one with it.
Its not that I dont like the Gallet, just Ive been really happy with my SPH-5, but its a little on the heavy side, and I could use the lower profile.
Fly Safe.

[Squirrel]

Spaced

You're right on that one, I have not seen anyone else with one in the commercial industry, but it is popular with numerous police aviation units in the US as well it is the US military issue (Army I think), for whom I understand it was designed.

[rotorboy]

Fellas,
I have a Gentex SPH5 forsale. Has the Oregon Aero Hushkit, Softseal earcups and the coil cord. 450 shipped in the US, Ill ship it to OZ or NZ for the difference.

Drop me a PM if your interested.

RB

;)