ICAO airspace

[mstram]

I fly in Canada and I see that Canadian and U.S. class "C" and "B", airspace are quite different in defintion.

Do either of these countries airspaces conform to ICAO specifications?

Is there an online reference for ICAO airspace, and/or a summary or spec sheet that details what specific countries are using?

Mike

[vintage ATCO]

ICAO Classification of Airspace is contained in Annex 11, para 2.6. Unfortunately ICAO docs don't seem to be available online and I don't know of a summary anywhere


A particular country's variations from ICAO will be notified in their AIP.

[mstram]

Vintage,

ok thx.

Mike

[Quokka]

I heard a rumour that ICAO is moving to reduce the airspace class structure down to three classes of airspace only... is this true? Or is this a Eurocontrol idea only?

[M609]

You heard corretly Quokka. I think it's a Eurocontrol initiative tough.

[Lon More]

I heard a rumour that ICAO is moving to reduce the airspace class structure down to three classes of airspace only... is this true? Or is this a Eurocontrol idea only?
Nice idea, a return to controlled, advisory and uncontrolled airspace.
Unfortunately lots of opposition, particularly from the military, probably make this a non-starter

[WorkingHard]

Reasons for military objections anyone?

[M609]

Because the program calls for reduction of UAS, and some nations MIL boys have the conception that they cannot fly in CAS. (Guess who)
According to a source in our CAA, this will make it CAS over FL95 in the entire FIR. (roughly)

[WorkingHard]

The perception is that the military simply ignore what they don't like or don't agree with anyway, so will it make any difference. An analysis from the CAA of controlled airspace infringements etc showed a remarkable number from the military. Anyone made any reports on these and with what result?

[GroundBound]

From Annex 11, 2.6

Class A: IFR flights only are permitted, all flights are provided with an ATC service and separated from each other.

Class B: IFR and VFR flights are permitted, all flights are provided with an ATC service and separated from each other.

Class C: IFR and VFR flights are permitted, all flights are provided with an ATC service and IFR flights are separated from other IFR flights, and from VFR flights. VFR flights are separated from IFR flights and receive traffic information in respect of other VFR flights

Class D: IFR and VFR flights are permitted, all flights are provided with an ATC service and IFR flights are separated from other IFR flights, and receive traffic information in respect of other VFR flights. VFR flights receive traffic information in respect of other VFR flights.

For all these, radio is normally required, and frequently a 4096 transponder (although it depends where, and what ground equipement is available).

A clearance is required to enter any of these airspaces.

How an ICAO Member State chooses to classify various parts of its airspace is its own affair.

[M609]

Anyone made any reports on these and with what result?

We have little problems with the local chaps, but foreign operators have generated a couple of reports the last year. (From me alone)
Result: "The Airforce need to review their routine regarding birefings to foreign aircrew (........) review the airspace allocated to major air exercises" (Pretty much the same conclution in a dozen reports the last 2 years)
Have they done it? I dont know, if they have, it has not helped regarding the aircrew. We did however get a new system of trainingareas last winter, and that has helped a lot. (Less air space busts)
Main point in the system is seggregation of ACM etc from all other GAT traffic :}

[mstram]

GroundBound,

Thx for the info.

The issue that was being discussed on another forum is in regard to the "special" treatment that the U.S. has with Class B.

Specifically, a pilot (under VFR) was concerned that he was not issued the phrase "cleared into Class B airspace", although he was issued instructions for altitude and heading that would carry him into the Class B.

What I'm trying to find out is if the phrase "Cleared into" .. Class B, is especially required for Class B, or for that matter into *any* airspace"

Mike

[Scott Voigt]

Hi Mike;

I'm on that other forum <G>... What has been written on class B is correct, you do need a clearance to enter. We can say cleared as requested though <G>...

regards

Scott

[mstram]

Hi Scott,

I understand that a clearance into Class B is necessary in the U.S., according to U.S. regulations .

It was mentioned that the U.S. had adpoted ICAO airs

I'm interested in knowing if ICAO specifies :
[list=a]
Which airspace class(es) require a clearance
the specific verbiage necessary to grant a clearance
[/list=a]

[GroundBound]

For classes A-D, ICAO says"... flights are provided with an Air Traffic Control service...".

To be controlled, you need a clearance, thus I think it follows that you cannot enter any of these airspaces without an ATC clearance.

I don't think the clearance needs to specify the class of the airspace, but I would it expect it to identify the airspace, as in "cleared to enter the .... zone/tma, at ... etc. "

Just my pennyworth :) :)

[bookworm]

ICAO Annex 2 (Rules of the Air) 4.8 states that VFR flights must comply with 3.6 (ATC Clearances) when operated in classes B/C/D. The US files a difference to 4.8 stating that a clearance is not required for VFR flights in classes C and D.

No specific phraseology is mentioned there, but PANS-RAC says:

(aircraft) CLEARED TO ENTER/LEAVE CONTROL AREA/ZONE [VIA (significant point)] AT (level) [AT (time)].

[M609]

clearance is not required for VFR flights in classes C and D.

Follow up to that US bit....

If a VFR pilot in "C" don't need clearence, how are you gonna maintain seperation between IFR/VFR? Surely no need for clearence=no need to follow instructions?

[mstram]

The clearance refers to the aircraft's initial entry into the airspace.

I don't know what the logic was in deciding that some airspace would require a "clearance", while others only require "radio contact"

Mike