Procedural separation on departure

[tmmorris]

I have limited experience of this, but...

If I carry out a standard departure outside CAS (e.g. from Oxford, a BOTLI departure to the south) and get a clearance to depart IFR, standard BOTLI departure, climb & maintain 2500ft, &c., how much protection does this provide? Sometimes the clearance is from Brize, sometimes from Oxford Approach, and BOTLI is well to the south of Oxford (OX 9d, as I recall). If the clearance comes from Brize then I can get a radar service as soon as I am airborne, but if it's from Oxford, do I get anything meaningful from the procedural departure?

Would I be better departing VFR at low-ish level, then going IFR and climbing to get a radar service thereafter?

Tim

[Legs11]

Whilst an Oxford controller can answer this better, the basics are that a procedural clearance should give you standard NON-radar separation from all participating IFR aircraft. More than likely you'll also be given traffic information on any other known traffic.

What it doesn't give you is what they don't know about - all the other little f:mad:ers out there who haven't got the common sense to call:\

As for departing LL VFR and climbing - that's your choice:hmm:

[Spitoon]

I was thinking of the best way to answer your question and I thought I'd have a look at what a BOTLI departure is. I can't find any mention of it in the AIP - at least not in the Oxford section - so I'm inlined to think it's a bit of a red herring.

In simple terms you are departing an aerodrome with no airspace protection, apart from an ATZ, under IFR. Whether you speak to Brize or Oxford initially, the early stages of your climb will be separated only from other traffic known to the unit that you are talking to. The two units will no doubt talk to each other and pass relevant traffic information but until Brize can identfy you and agree to provide you with a service you are mixing it with any aircraft in the area that are not talking to ATC. Of course, the risk that you expose yourself to probably increases the further you are from an airport because transiting flights are less likely to call up.

One Brize provide a service, things will get a bit better but if you're not aware of the limitations of a Radar Advisory Service outside Controlled Airspace you'd be advised to read it up to see just what it is you are getting!!!

[Bright-Ling]

Stating the bleeding abvious I guess....

But from Oxford into the Open FIR you have SDR's of course, not SID's.
http://www.stopstart.freeserve.co.uk/smilie/guin.gif
B-L

[tmmorris]

Thanks, much what I suspected.

The Oxford 'standard' arrivals and departures are in Aerad (and the RAF Terminal booklets) but not in the AIP. I've often wondered what difference that makes.

Tim

[Dan Dare]

LOOK OUT!!!!

There's a lot of traffic out there! It doesn't matter if you are VFR, SVFR or IFR, Cat A or whatever, you should have your head out of the window looking for what ATC don't know about, or things not doing as they should. If you are talking of staying VMC until under a radar service and then climbing in IMC, then that is a slightly different matter and possibly a sensible option, but a radar service (ANY radar service) can't guaruntee separation, so you should still keep a bloody good lookout. If you are worried just remember it is a big sky up there and IMC provides a bit of added protection with fewer people pottering about in IMC. You can hedge your bets further with "big sky" separation by flying at the correct quadrantals, or at a random (ie not whole 1000s/500s) level at low level.