Looking For Non-eu Pilots

[ex-mad dog driver]

Hi all, I am looking for other pilots who have NON-EU passports and are flying in the UK professionaly. Reason being that I am about to spend a lot of money to convert my FAA ATP to a JAA ATPL so I can find work as an airline pilot in the UK. I am a perm UK resident but I have a US passport. Looking at some of the websites like: EasyJ, Channel Ex, and others they call for a Full EU passport for employment. Is it worth the cash risk to do the trainning?
Any information or ideas would be great.:confused:

[2FLYEU]

Hi ex mad dog...
Glad to hear I am not the only one doing the same...:p
I am constantly asking myself the same questions.
I think at the end it's gonna be worth it and hope if you have a bit of jet time everithing will be ok
Does any one else aroud did the same and was it hard to find the right job???
thanks folks:ok:

[redsnail]

My fiance's in the same boat. He was restricted to the UK only regarding places to work and live. He's ok for easyJet, probably because he's already 737 endorsed. It helps to have something that the airlines want.

[the road atlas]

Oooops damn wizbang button,

Who knows what easy really wants, on the same form they say "To work for easyJet, you must be able to work in the United Kingdom and Europe."
I interped that as a passport is needed as I thought you need a EC passort to live in other EC countries, am I wrong?

now, don't really understand the defination of "must" as the very next line is
"If you are not a British or European Union national, are you in possession of a visa that entitles you to live and work in the UK?"


Iam wondering if it's dangerous to use common sence and assume that they will take us mear mortals with Anccestry visas to the UK that are not working visas as such but automatic visas that give the right to work there indefinantly and gives residency after 4 years I beleive.

Redsnail,

Even though this trend of having to buy ratings is crap, sometimes you have to do what you have to do. But do they penilize a person with a bare 37 type ratting?

I wonder if being 37 rated is a help or a hinder, as easyjet say, "To qualify as a 737 type rated pilot, we prefer a minimum of 500 hours on type within the last 5 years." Is this just to encourage the next statment?

Below they say that FO have to join through their 23,000 pound (thats a huge $38,450 USD ) training scheme,
"First Officers (FO's) have a frozen ATPL (CPL + ATPL theory) and a minimum of 500 hours. FO's can only join the airline through our TRSS scheme.

Please note that there is only a limited number of spaces this year through our Direct Entry Scheme and the majority of positions will be available through our TRSS scheme. If you are interested in that scheme, please fill out our online application form and state in the reason why you want to join easyJet that you are applying for that scheme. Due to availability on courses, priority will be given to candidates applying for our TRSS scheme."


I spose what Iam getting at is I can't work out what they want eithier. but an keen to find out, it's a huge task to convert over.

[flat-tire]

Glad to see there are more of us out there!

The way I understand it is that my marriage visa will last for two years and then I can apply for indefinite live to remain and receive a British passport which allows the right to work in any EU country. For the mean time there are plenty of carriers that are located in the UK to receive employment from as long as you have what they are looking for.

I completed all my written and am currently finishing the flying bit of my conversion. Hopefully after everything all said and done I end up with a job.

What was everyone's inspiration to pack up and move to the UK?

[ex-mad dog driver]

REDSNAIL, I think that I also have what they are looking for, but I didn't want to have too narrow of a "choice" if you know what I mean.

The Road Atlas, one thing Pay for trainning is crap. I'm sure you agree.

Flat-Tire, I have been in the UK for two years as of today. I was on the spouse visa for the first year then I got the indefinate return visa. I called today to get a Brittish passport but you must be here for three years then you can apply for the brittish passport. If you are from the states you should contact the US embassey to see if you can have dual passports/citizenship. One other catch is that inthe three years that you are here you must not be gone more than 270 full days or the time doen't count.

My main goal here is to find an airline job before I get recalled from an airline in the states. My feelings are that you never give up a job for an interview. The time is ticking and do I want to spend £4000.00 just to go back home in 6-9 months. Oh well it's just money, right?
See ya, EXMDD:hmm:

[onehunga]

Having just been through this process you might want to go to the following link:-

IND website (http://www.ind.homeoffice.gov.uk/default.asp?PageId=145)

As stated above if married to a British Citizen then there is a 3 year period before you can apply for naturalisation and then a British Passport. For people like myself I had to wait 5 years.

[ex-mad dog driver]

Onehunga, did you have to give up your US passport and are you flying with anyone now in the UK?

[onehunga]

Sorry not US but a NZ passport and under the laws of both countries it is ok to hold dual nationality. From what I read the UK allows dual nationality but you need to check the "other" countries rules to ensure that you don't unwittingly lose your citizenship from there when you get naturalised as British.

Can't help you on the work issue as I am studying my ATPL's now so not likely to be looking for work for at least another year.

[flat-tire]

One can never give up their US citizenship without putting it in writing and passing it on two the correct people. I know of several people that have both passports and the countries ask that you use the appropriate one at each boarder. I think this website might be of use : http://www.overthepond.info/ukguide/. Oh and about being in the country 270 days, how do they know where you stay at night? They can't even figure out the paper work for asylum seekers and instead give them permission to stay. I hope I didn't offend anyone...........

I'm not sure where you are getting you conversion done, but that seems a bit cheap. I believe the school I am at charged £1795 just for the books and £5100 for the flying including all taxes and flight examiner fees. Examiner fees cost £578 alone and that's just for two hour flight with now ground examination. Sounds like the CAA has us bent over the fence.

Good luck on converting, it seems like one of those life decisions.:ok:

[2FLYEU]

Flat tyre ...... It depends on your previous experience.
At my School "OAT" I opted for distance learning (I have to work
to rebuild my carrer in the Eu... 'am another 911 victim;) )
And is sort of pay as you go...
Otherwise Just the Gnd School is £ 2200 no exams fees.

After that I will do the "flying" on a 73 sim.... hope so.

Instead of waiting to be called again by my airline I prefer to relocate on a at least more opportunities country like Uk....
This the closest to the US. am' glad to be here.

Good luck to everyone:ok:

[ex-mad dog driver]

Flat-tire, It is rather cheap because of my qualifications allow me to do the 14 tests and a JAA sim ride on my current Type. I am using the Bristol GS, DL which is £1900. That inc. bookd, CD-ROM and 2X two week crash courses. £728 for the 14 tests and I figure the rest of the £4000 will be the crp-5 and other stuff. The flight stuff is covered under my companies service contract with Flight Safety in LFPB. Otherwise I would be forking out more for trainning.

Onehunga, sorry I should never assume anything, It only makes an ASS out of U and ME:O

Good luck everyone!:D

2FLYEU, do you have the 73 time from your former positon, and are you getting the same deal I am?

EXMMD

[2FLYEU]

I've got a specific case here.
Just have no type on my faa atpl....just a Sic on 73-2/3(strange...long story with the company) but more than 2500 on type.
Went to Caa and yeap....14 exams as well to finally check ride on 73 sim.......possibly reduced training required.
mad dog do you think It's possible to have a short cut on this or do you have any advice ??

I really appreciate your help!

[ex-mad dog driver]

2FLYEU, I have been looking for loopholes in this conversion for some time now and have not found any. (good ones any way) the only thing that could save you money is by doing what Flat-tire is doing. Flat-Tire is doing the 14 tests like us but instead of doing a Type He is doing the CPL skills test and the IR skills test and maybe the MCC course (which you don't need obviously). The cost of flight trainning will be much less than that of a Type rating. The catch is that he will need to do a Type to get a Full ATPL, though I hear that people do get hired with a Frozen ATPL.
The only other option that I can think of is to find a company that flys a "N" reg plane. Most of the companies Type you in a plane. After the Type all you need is 500hrs in left or right seat and when you go for a PC you ask for the JAA ride and you have your Full JAA ATPL ticket to ride. If you can't find a N REG then you should look at getting a Cayman Lic. which is very easy to do. There are a lot of BBJ's in England that are VP REG. To get the Cayman Lic I belive all you do is contact the proper office and send a copy or original FAA lic and copy of the last page of your logbook so I am told.
I hope some of this helps.
See Ya, EXMDD :ok:

[Jockflyer]

OK, I'm going to be al little contravertional here.

I'm a UK citizen/passport holder. I spent a lot of money getting a UK licence, which is considered to be the best in the world, also probably the most expensive.

I want to know why UK authorities allow foreign nationals to come over to the UK to work as pilots, when there are sooooooo many UK nationals who are looking for work.

I've got over 1400TT now (which I had to go to southern africa to obtain) and I still can't even get an interview!

I'm sure if I were in your position, then I would be doing the same. Its the authorities that piss me off. While UK pilots are unemployed, then no foreign nationals should get work permits.

Sorry guys, but thats just how I feel.

Best of luck to you all.

JF

[onehunga]

Jock - I thought this post was started because someone wanted some advice on conversion and citizenship issues? If you wanted to start a tried and tested thread on racist remarks then why not set up another post? Even better do a search and you will see it has been done to death time and time again. If you are good enough then I am sure you will get that first job. Suppose you can't take something with Ryanair though as that would mean it could be an Irish mans job what with you being a Scot and all that. Good luck.

[AIRWAY]

Jockflyer,

Well Jock using your theory then tell all Uk pilots that are flying abroad to go back home... because... You get my drift...

[2FLYEU]

JOCKFLYER......
I think most of th "foreins" here are married with a EU citizen(UK...or any other country) and they fulfill all of the requirements to remain on this
whole EU and to fly wherever they qualify.
It's like if you had a green card........

wouldn't you like to go and flight in the US???????;)

Aviation industry is MA-SSI-VE !!!!!! at all levels.

And the end in the UK,US, EU......China.......a good job in aviation
it's difficult to find ;)

Don't worry the good days are coming back!
We all find a nice job...

good luck to you guys
:ok:

[flat-tire]

Jockflyer,

Sorry you feel that way. Most of us are not here on work visas, instead we are married to UK nationals. I don't know of any airlines that would apply for work visas. That is a long and lengthy process.

I gave up a great job to move here to be with my wife and it sure would be nice if we could both complete our dreams while living in the same country. Its not my wish to take jobs from UK citizens but I see no other way for me to complete my dream.

I was bumped out of my first flight instructor job by a foreign national, just because they had less time to build hours being on a 2 year visa. So it happens on both sides of the pond.

Good luck with your job hunt!

[the road atlas]

I presume that companies like easy and Ryanair want EC passports so they can easily base crews anywhere they are needed. Does anyone know it they have taken guys and girls that can only be based un the UK only. (ie, no likely hood of a UK passport for 4-5 years?)

I presume that the companies that are UK based with bases in UK only are not calling for a EC passport as well ??

As to the chappie who is upset at different accents taking his jobs, well as far as I can see, if all the pommie pilots around the world were "recalled" to fly back home, he would be in alot worse situation.


atlas

[CH4]

I can probably add some useful advice here;

1. Marrying an EU wife will generally give you 'restricted rights' to live and work in that particular country. It should not, subject to the laws in that country, stop you from living and working in that country. It would not generally however give you the right to go and live and work elsewhere in the EU.

2. Most probably, EU wife has the right to go and live anywhere else in EU and probably take you as 'hubby' with her. The procedure and time taken to grant 'hubby' rights to work in that other country however, I believe, is up to the rules and restrictions imposed by that other EU country. I do not know what the rules r the time frame involved is. That you need to investigate specificaly.

3. Also beware of the problem in 'exchanging' a non JAR licence for a JAR one. That will probably give you restricted rights. E.G. You meet the criteria of 'obtaining' a UK JAR licence based on your experience level etc, and the UK issue you with a UK issued licence, issued in accordance with JAR FCL 1. The big advisory is that this entitles you to fly UK registered aircraft alone. The UK cannot give you the rights to fly other JAR member registered aircraft and that is dependant on the other EU (JAR compliant) state granting approval; Not Guaranteed.

It is a minefield out there and you need to do your research carefully!

As to the rights and wrongs, who cares. Rules are rules and you have to meet them. If it's an 'unbalanced playing field' out there, so be it. You cannot realistically expect to change the rules. You will reach retirement age before you succeed. A good example of this is the French attitude to over 60's flying in their airspace. Outrageous maybe, but they are achieving their aim. So, are the English that arrogant? Maybe in Rugby, but not flying! And our beef is very good anyway!

Time for another French Revolution, me thinks! Time to lop off a few heads, especially in the French unions and DGCA!

P.S. Marrying an EU wife should also come with an ECAM Advisory! Joking, of course!

[redsnail]

The road atlas,
Regarding your question about bare type ratings, I would visit the websites and see what they have to say. eg, I believe easyJet say that if you don't have 500 hours on 737s (assuming no other suitable jet time either) then you'll have to do their TRSS scheme.

easyJet will take folk with UK ancestral visas. ie only good for the UK.