View Full Version : Bmi prefer BFS

gul dukat
3rd Dec 2001, 19:13
Bmi have just had the first diversions from the city to BFS due to weather."Worst windshear I have experienced ....passengers not enjoying it .." go around, a trip to the Magee hold and then to an airport with a CHOICE of runways! ho hum !Keep it lit!! :)
(joined later I am told by the EMA and ABZ/CWL bral)
:eek: :eek:

[ 03 December 2001: Message edited by: gul dukat ]

3rd Dec 2001, 21:38
They are.
:D oh it was fun to day closing turn wind 180/60 kts at 1000ft bumpy as expected and still got stopped well before A2 at max landing weight.

Rgds K.I.L. :D

[ 03 December 2001: Message edited by: keepitlit ]

dik dastardly
3rd Dec 2001, 21:46
Better get used to it. Standard December BHD weather. Believe the pencil jet had another bash at it too.

controller friendly
3rd Dec 2001, 22:43
What a surprise, the usual suspects on the same ol thread!
I hate to say it but as I'm a woman, I just have to :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
I Told You So :cool: :cool:
It was only a matter of time but then again, what would I know?!?
The friendly one :p

3rd Dec 2001, 23:01
how many 320s got into BHD today ???? first sign of winter weather and its of to BFS we go what a surprise :D :D :D ;)

3rd Dec 2001, 23:57
Look on the bright side - at least Antrim Intl has plenty of parking space these days! ;)

4th Dec 2001, 00:11
i also heard a wisper bmi will soon be operating a late night flight into BFS 2310 and an early flight out :)

4th Dec 2001, 02:36
BHD is the domain of the 146 and regional jets with reversers, sadly BHD in the winter is rather unforgiving and the Jungle jet and the Airbus must feel sadly rather uncomfortable.

Despite keeping BHD going for so many years BE have had to suffer the indignity of being shoved to the side to welcome the folks from BFS,it reflects badly on the short-sighted greedy BHD management.

4th Dec 2001, 03:24
I witnessed 2 Go-arounds today in BHD. A BE 146 just landed, after what looked like a bumpy approach. The landing seemed all right. Then about 10 minutes later, a Jungle Jet (145) went around from quiet a high altitude... Maybe 400 or 500 ft. They went straight to BFS (too scared?). Then the Airbus came in, and I have to say it looked preety scary.

The aircraft was shaken all over the place on the last bit of the approach, and then on short final it got very dodgy and the crew decided to go-around a few feet from the RW. I have to say it looked dangerous, and they diverted straight to BFS.

I don't know everything that happened today in BHD, but it is interesting to notice that 2 BMI aircrafts went around when most other aircrafts landed happily. The CRJ can also be a bit interesting to land in those conditions... and as far as I know, none diverted to BFS...

But anyway, safer is better... ;) ;) ;)

[ 03 December 2001: Message edited by: Dudley ]

Cpt Nil Further
4th Dec 2001, 13:25
The weather was bad, but not that bad. At worst the wind was 30 degrees off the runway with gusts of 40 knots and 25 knots of positive shear. Wait to you see what it does February/March when it is so rough even the autopilot trips out. The only real worry at BHD is the wet runway and no head wind scenario, then the fun begins. I watched several airbus landings yesterday and thought the crews coped admirably but I will never criticize any crew for diverting, if you are NOT happy, throw it away.

[ 04 December 2001: Message edited by: Cpt Nil Further ]

4th Dec 2001, 16:40
nice to see some possitve postings in among the slagging.
Oh and for the rest of the superhero's I hear that the european space agency is recruiting!,After all if you know how the airbus handles having not even flown it you must be in with a chance.

bmi werent the only company to divert.

Rgds K.I.L.

Flying Force
5th Dec 2001, 05:32
KeepitLit, I agree with you. No point slagging of decent people who care mostly about safety. It is a golden rule in aviation... If you are not happy with anything during an approach, go-around and walk away from it. Many pilots killed themselves (and others) because they were just too obsesed about their objective to land.

My intructor was always telling me : "If you are on the runway and not happy about anything, stop if you can, it is better than finishing in the trees. If you are not happy about anything during an approach go-around, and walk back home in one piece."

Safety is primary in aviation. No room for superheros !!!

5th Dec 2001, 12:39
I cant believe what im reading on here so called professional pilots slagging each other off about going around,you should all know better than that,GROW UP.
Remember its better to be "still in the air, than still in the ground"!!

[ 05 December 2001: Message edited by: nitefiter ]

5th Dec 2001, 13:22
So there were a few weather diversions - so what?
Welcome to the winter, I`m sure there will probably be a few more in the months to come - I think you will find it works both ways, when EGAA was fogged out and EGAC was 30km plus I seem to recall seeing Easyjet sitting on the ramp. Does this mean they prefer Belfast City??
As to the management jibe, I have worked for both sets of management and I can assure you the City team is the lesser of two evils by a long way! :rolleyes:

5th Dec 2001, 14:25
"22" Sorry for being a bit dull but what has the management of either airport got to do with diversions?

Seems to me the pilots elected to take the safe(r) option.

All "pressonitis" does is get people killed.

I believe if I wasn't happy to make the approach for whatever reason, the last things that would go through my mind is company profit or which management team is running which airport. Quite frankly all I'm looking for is a piece of clear concrete/tarmac (pehaps with a CAT 3 ILS), competent air traffic (which we seem to get in NI) and a well trained ARFS.

I think the bmi pilots who diverted probably thought that too and no one should criticise the PIC for having the balls to divert.

5th Dec 2001, 14:57
Aviaraptor - I was simply responding to Jackmans "shortsighted greedy" comments, sorry for wandering off course.
I don`t think anyone in their right mind would expect a pilot to land somewhere where circumstances were beyond his/the aircrafts or both capabilities, should that be EGAC or any other airfield. :)

5th Dec 2001, 20:57
Reading this thread has made me quite angry.

Dudley -
Then about 10 minutes later, a Jungle Jet (145) went around from quiet a high altitude... Maybe 400 or 500 ft. They went straight to BFS (too scared?). Then the Airbus came in, and I have to say it looked preety scary.

There are many reasons why a go-around is carried out. There is nothing special about a go-around, it is a normal procedure. What looked scarey?

Do you fly for an airline? Your post seems to sugguest not.

Any crew, for whatever airline, flying whatever aircraft are professionals. Safety is paramount.

but it is interesting to notice that 2 BMI aircrafts went around when most other aircrafts landed happily.

There is nothing wrong with making an approach and that ending up in a go around. It means nothing other than the crew elected not to land. Their reason is not to be questioned. YOU are not sitting there in that seat making that decision.

As for aircraft performance, this is not a 'suck it and see' idea. Performance is worked out for different conditions, weights and conditions.

controller friendly
5th Dec 2001, 23:35
No-one in their right mind would possibly question a pilots decision to divert.
The original point of this thread really carries on from threads from August/September time. There was alot of discussion about the feasability(?) of the airbus on an 1829m runway. While it was accepted that 80% of the time it would have no problem, weather had to be considered.
As one who was at that time told I didn't know what I was talking about,well, it appears I just might! :rolleyes:

5th Dec 2001, 23:55
I really can't undersand what the big deal is about operating these aicraft into the city, I mean Aberdeen's runway is 1829 metres for example and reguarly handle Airbuses, B757, MD83 so what's the problem and having worked there for a while I certainly dont see any problem with it.

I dunno if people are just so used to seeing bigger aircraft go into BFS and only seeing 146's go in there or maybe its jealousy I really dont know. Must say I agree with FL245's comments tho.

dik dastardly
6th Dec 2001, 04:45
It's not the field length that's the problem there, after all the bus is a very popular charter machine and operates into airfields of similar size across Europe and beyond. It's more to do with the weather around the place eg frequent windshear and more importantly the awful runway state especially when wet. If BHD want to play in the big league then these problems should be addressed very quickly. Even the new terminal is falling apart and it's only open 6 months..the front doors don't open properly and there's metal falling off the roof. Now the staff are leaving in droves. BE and BRAL have been paying the bills there for years. Can you blame them for being a little pissed off when the airport appear to shun them in favour of another operator? Not enough staff, not enough tugs, not enough interest!

TS Hauler
6th Dec 2001, 14:37
Costs and Safety

In the "good old days" - JEA paid a king's ransom to BCA for access as did BRAL. Figures being quoted were somewhere between 15 and 18 per dep pax. Gill paid around 6 per dep pax.

I don't know what Midland are paying at BCA now but I bet it's none of the above. Like him or loathe him, Mikey Bish has run a tight ship. He has survived where others failed. He didn't do this by being profligate with his expenses. He will have nailed the BCA boys to the floor and preserved his options elsewhere. The deal must have been good because for all the rhetoric of "it's dead easy on short runways" rubbish, size matters and I bet the bmi safety evaluation boys thought long and hard about the implcations before any move was made.

The question is however, is the deal so good that the benefits outweigh the risks? It must be.

However, notwithstanding the economics on the blustery day in question someone else was in the chair and said "I don't do windshear". Good on yer, mate.

Capt PPRuNe
6th Dec 2001, 18:26
First I would like to reiterate that this is primarily a professional pilots forum. Whilst readers and contributers from all walks of life on issues connected to our profession are welcome I advise anyone who tries to contribute and makes statements such as the one from 'Dudley' where they try to sound authorative but obviously have nothing to do with the operation of an airliner that they are not welcome.

Spotters who watch a/c trying to land at BHD in adverse weather conditions and then make immature comments such as "did they go around and divert because they were scared" or words to that effect are not welcome especially as they cause so much dissent by making others who wouldn't say such stupid things assume that it is another pilot passing judgement. No professional pilot that I know would make such a crass and ignorant remark and only goes to show that the red writing at the bottom of this and every page has to be noted.

Second, I have started a new forum for issues dealing with airports and routes and this thread is being moved there as will be any new ones that are promarily to do with subjects such as the one for this thread.