View Full Version : Flight International web page

5th Jun 2001, 21:32
What's going on with Flight web pages. Current issue is 3 weeks old and same is true for job section?

5th Jun 2001, 21:44
I asked FLIGHT that very question. The reply was that it is not policy to display the most up to date issue, but merely to give a sample of the product.

They suggested I buy a copy instead. I happen to subscribe anyway.

5th Jun 2001, 23:18
Looks like they changed their policy sudenly.
And their web site is made to show current info not just a sample. They can do what they want, but a simple info on a web page that it's not going to be up-to-date any longer would have helped. I'm just disapointed to be treated like that.
Thanks for your info

drag required
6th Jun 2001, 21:40
they still update the jobs page every week, as for the rest it was pretty useless anyway, they'd only show the uninteresting articles.

7th Jun 2001, 02:41
Let's face it, Flight lost touch with those who actually fly for a living years ago. It is the world's most boring magazine.

If Situations Vacant were removed it would be bankrupt in a month. As it is the 'bosses daughter' has to edit it as they can't afford anyone else.

It is pitched at the men in grey suits who they think might be interested in industry gossip that the rest of the industry knew weeks ago. And the Asian and American markets that they think might generate better profits than the flat European markets, who have long since become bored with the endless pandering to the above markets.

Sadly I'm even sad enough to subscribe to it, so I speak with weekly authority!

PPRuNe Towers
7th Jun 2001, 03:10
I suspect you'll find the reason may be due to the workload there at present.

The next issue should make obvious why some things might have slipped or been left alone for a few weeks.

Cryptically yours from a Chatham flagged Towers

7th Jun 2001, 03:15
Hey, did anybody ever get a job through Fright International?

7th Jun 2001, 03:49
I did

Gary Halliday
7th Jun 2001, 04:24
BB you`re dead right, I wonder why I still subscribe as well.
Possibly because the answer to M0.78s Q is 4 in my case.
Though the accident digests are quite informative the rest`s a comic. Can`t wait for the next guided missile directory.

Gary Halliday
7th Jun 2001, 04:30
BB you`re dead right, I wonder why I still subscribe as well.
Possibly because the answer to M0.78s Q is 4 in my case.
Though the accident digests are quite informative the rest`s a comic. Can`t wait for the next guided missile directory.

7th Jun 2001, 09:48
I got my present job from a Flight advert. That was in the days when Flight International was essential reading for everyone in the industry except Astronauts. Mainly because the actual salaries were given in the adverts so you could compare them with your own. Now I read someone else's Flight every week because it isn't worth buying. After checking the jobs pages I always go straight to the... er, um, er, well I look at the pictures anyway. That last Missile Directory WAS rivetting reading wasn't it?

Through difficulties to the cinema

7th Jun 2001, 10:09
Have subscribed to Flight International continuously since 1968 and had it delivered to many countries but find that now it is but a shadow of its former self.

Brian Clough
7th Jun 2001, 13:17
As a wannabe, I agree that Flight can be a terminally boring read except for the jobs at the back. However, I wonder what would the more experienced members of the industry deem to be the better read for someone such as myself. Is there another 'industry' mag that could fill me in any better ?

7th Jun 2001, 13:26
.. It tries to appeal to many readers
engineers, ATC, private pilots, airline staff
military pilots, oh and those airline pilot
chappies and wannabees

7th Jun 2001, 13:36
The owners of flight international have decided not to have a flight international website anymore as part of a cost cutting excersise.

They have come to the conclusion that people are reading the website for free rather than buy a magazine.

Finally 1+1=2 is reacing the .com publishing industry.

7th Jun 2001, 13:44
To be honest I always thought that most of Flight International prints outspreading for free. They call our airline every year and just asking how many copies we would like to recieve (for free of course).

Up & Away
7th Jun 2001, 13:55
If Copenhagen is right its a sad day for 'Flight International'. It can not be an easy task to fill a 'weekly mag' with quality articles all the time. I hope they rethink and keep the web for instant news and produce a fatter quality mag (for those quiet moments down route).

7th Jun 2001, 14:02
I remember filling out a survey for them a year or so ago pretty much saying what everyone has said on this thread so far. Hasn't seemed to have made any difference as it's as dead a read now as it was then. As the rest have said; if it wasn't for the ads in the back...Anyway, I'm not renewing my subscription.

7th Jun 2001, 14:26
I too have subscribed for many years, but still like to look at their web site sometimes.

The magazine has certainly not been as good in recent years, if they are going to stop having the web site as well, maybe time to give them away.......

"I USED to be a PPRuNaholic, but now I'm CURED"

7th Jun 2001, 20:33
Air Transport Intelligence reports today:

Reed Aerospace names new editors
London (06Jun01, 17:49 GMT, 178 words)

ATI publisher Reed Aerospace has appointed two of its existing editors to the positions of editor of Flight International and the new post of group editor.

Effective immediately ATI editor Kieran Daly is promoted to group editor with overall editorial responsibility for ATI, the weekly Flight International, and the monthly Airline Business.

At the same time Murdo Morrison is promoted from being deputy editor of Flight International to become its editor, reporting to Daly who in turn reports primarily to the publisher of the magazine titles, Allan Winn, and also to ATI publisher Dominic Feltham. In the short term Daly will continue to edit ATI in addition to his new duties.

Morrison joined Flight International as deputy editor in January this year after being editor of another Reed Business Information title Motor Trader. He replaces Carol Reed who left the company recently.

Daly has edited ATI since its 1997 launch after previously being editor of Air Navigation International and holding several posts at Flight International.

Airline Business will continue to be edited by Kevin O’Toole reporting to Daly.

Source: Air Transport Intelligence news


This may be (at least part of) what PPRuNe Towers was referring to.


12th Jun 2001, 17:21
Just received the new look Flight today, Dunnunda.

I think I liked the old look better, a lot of the layout inside, and also the cover, remind me more of all those American magazines.

"I USED to be a PPRuNaholic, but now I'm CURED"

12th Jun 2001, 18:51
Just in passing, Yes I have managed to get two jobs from the "sitvac" columns of FI however like most people I can't be bothered with reading uninteresting articles.

Several years ago I spotted that my then current employer was going to be doing something quite extraordinary in the Airline business.
I asked my Chief Pilot about the subject and he said "Oh that - no we are not doing that - FI rang up for some news and we told them that, to get them off our backs"

I wonder if its the same nowadays.

12th Jun 2001, 20:33
How to identify the person reading FI -

Wannabe - Starts at the front & reads it all, beliving every word.

Newcomer - starts at the front, scans the articles for anything interesting, looks at the back & then is ready ask somebody else if it's true.

Total Aviation Person - Starts at the back (Sit. Vac.), looks to se if Uncle Roger is there & then flicks the pages to the front.

Anybody got any more??

Oh, & yes, I did once get a job through FI, but that was in 1900 & frozen solid!

I'm not old, I was just born too early

Ace Rimmer
12th Jun 2001, 20:53
Must be something in the air, all these re-designs: RAW did it last month Fright did it this week and Rimmer News is doing it next week. Mind you I agree that the 'new' Fright does look a bit Aviation Leaky still there you go each to his one. BTW Congrats to Murdo and Algy Or should we say Your grand impirial Algy-ness...Whatever, whatever and all that good stuff...

FE Hoppy
12th Jun 2001, 20:54
Got my first job from an ad in FI.
Start at the back cause thats where the real(er) news is. I thought the MIL Flight Sim Directory was the best read last year.

12th Jun 2001, 22:05
I pick it up at the news stand, read the job adverts, and only buy it if there's a job that I'd be interested in sending my CV to. It's sad really, as it was "the" aviation magazine, for many many years.
Regards to all, Max

When I push the panic button, the breaker pops!

13th Jun 2001, 00:36
I have to agree that with very few exceptions in even fewer nubers, Flight is a very very boring magazine to read. I remeber when they used to test exotic types using correct terminology and had nice pictures.

Oh would I wait for a copy to show up. I think I have most of the numbers from about 1975 to about 1988. Since that I buy it occasionally.

I donīt really like the layout anymore I actually hate all the so called EXPERTS that contribute to the magazine. This brings to my mind issue about 3 weeks ago that had progress report about B737-900. Remember that?
Well have a look at the explanation on Vmcg and Vmca... Minimum control air and minimum control air as far as I know.

A good magazine with long history and lotīs of traditions ruined by bad journalism, apparent bad managerial tactics and even worse price / quality relation.

If they want to get this magazine bag to its formet glory they need to start by firing starting from the bozos that are in charge now. Some new blood needed ?


13th Jun 2001, 01:45
In my ever so humble and insignificant opinion as a wannabe (GOD I feel such a fraud http://www.pprune.org/ubb/NonCGI/frown.gif http://www.pprune.org/ubb/NonCGI/frown.gif http://www.pprune.org/ubb/NonCGI/frown.gif ) I think that flight is basically, to me, a boring newspaper-like mag, with only real good Classifieds to redeem it. One of the best out there is Flying. It's nice and personal, even if it is US-based (well, that's where I want to fly someday, either that or bush flying) and the last issue I got was back in Jan (i live ages from anywhere with a big 'nuff newsagents http://www.pprune.org/ubb/NonCGI/frown.gif ) And another is Aircraft Illustrated. Nice layout, Captain Plummet's a hoot, and the great and insightful Peter Prune's Problem Page (try saying that without spitting! ;) ) Haven't read it since xmas tho, so could've changed. Today's pilot is good too!

All in all, good substitutes for Flight. Only for the suits, desk-fliers and stock-jockeys, I say!

13th Jun 2001, 02:06
The new improved version arrived today. Don't want to be negative for the sake of it cos the sonic cruiser article was interesting but....
the content is still incredibly dull when compared with other aviation magazines.
Trying to be too many things to too many people.
Let Jeremy Clarkson run it. That should be fun!

13th Jun 2001, 03:15
Not much more to add, except that as a long term subcriber (10 years or so) and reader (last century sometime) I have finally let my subscription lapse.

Reasons? All of the above.


13th Jun 2001, 03:16
Gotta agree with most comments about FI.
I subscribed for near on 15 years, let my subs run out at the end of last year.
What completly bores me no end is
1. Mil sim directory
2. missile directory
3. Helicopter directory
4. Space Flt
5. World Airforce directory
the list goes on.
What I WANT to read about is current and topical news relating to civil aviation, Test flight and info on commercial a/c, biz a/c.
Airline information and news and of course job info.
Uncle Roger is good for the balance he brings to the mag :)

13th Jun 2001, 03:42
It beats me why anyone would want to subscribe to Flight, when the only worthy bits (Jobs and Uncle Roger) can be scanned and absorbed in the newsagents, (except when they put it in a plastic bag like this week).
Has anyone ever known their employer remove certain job adverts from the sttion copy before letting the troops get hold of it? I now of at least one Atco employer who has done this fowl deed! http://www.pprune.org/ubb/NonCGI/tongue.gif

It wasn't me.

13th Jun 2001, 04:05
I let my subscription lapse 4 or five years ago because:

1. I already had a job.

2. I discovered that new customers were being offered subscriptions for much less than I was expected to pay as an existing customer.

3. The magazine had become so boring to read. I have no absolutely interest in an airline directory or any other directory on missiles etc. Is anyone interested in such matters?

These days I skag a look at the jobs page when I'm pi$$ed off at work. Sad to say I still find the rest of it (more often than not) really, badly, boring. They have totally lost the plot as far as I am concerned.


13th Jun 2001, 04:36
Although I quite enjoy FI, I have also let my membership lapse about a year ago and buy it only whenever I feel really like it. I agree with faheel. Directories are a continuous bore !!!
-When are we going to get a Dircetory of directories ???
-What about when FI adds a calendar as well, and charge you for it ?
-Shytorque says as well "I discovered that new customers were being offered subscriptions for much less than I was expected to pay as an existing customer."
Couldn't agree more.


If you can't save the engine...save the airframe :)

[This message has been edited by AMEX (edited 12 June 2001).]

13th Jun 2001, 10:44
I got a job out of FI once, and I suspect we ended up working for the same company, but I still subscribe and still ALWAYS read it from the back like most of us do.
However, I agree with a lot of what is being said. What possible interest is Military Pilotless Aircraft to most of us.??
Or the Sim directory.?? We (Or at least I)
buy it for industry comment, and it is getting less and less these days.
I know that David Learmount is a regular peruser of this Forum and a contributor too.
I hope he will be taking the comments of those at the "Sharp end" of the business to his Editor and Publisher.

13th Jun 2001, 11:59
What the hell is wrong with all of you?
Its a fab read with its finger firmly on the pulse of Aviation. I bet you all eat your words when you see next months Worldwide directory of Aircraft Rivets and washers. Thats me sold, Im going out to renew my elapsed subscription ;)

Agree with all the above posts...it really has gone downhill big time.

Ace Rimmer
13th Jun 2001, 12:25
In defence of colleagues up at the Sutton Lubiyanka, Let me aquint you with the harsh realities of running mags. Fact: the majority of a mags revenue comes from ad sales and as a result stuff that will help sell ads tends to get included in the editorial plan. As a journo you may hate putting directories together (I hate it personally tres tres boring) but unfortunatly a) a lot of people find 'em useful and b) advertisers love 'em. To give you an example, In last months Rimmer news there I did an article about Wideroe operations - which was great fun to research - blatting around arctic Norway and, I suspect pretty interesting to read from a flt ops point of view judging by some of the comments I've had since it came out. On the other hand this month we've got a thing on aircraft residual values and lease rates which wasn't nearly as much fun to do but will appeal to an entirely dirrerent sector of our readership. Basically you can't please all the people all the time. Ok you might not find Missle or Maintenance directories terribly interesting but there are those that do. Finally, ref the old chestnut "Fright isn't as good as it used to be" I've got news, like Punch it never was.

[This message has been edited by Ace Rimmer (edited 13 June 2001).]

13th Jun 2001, 13:48

Let's hope that advertisers enjoy reading their own adverts because it does seem to be heading towards a business advertising directory.

It used to be a good read from cover to cover. Shame.

The Prisoner
13th Jun 2001, 15:24
Flight publishers must be reading this as this weeks jobs are on the web site.

I let my subs lapse 3 years ago, as I was asked to contribute 25% more than new subscribers. Surely loyalty should be rewarded with reduced renewal rates?

13th Jun 2001, 15:45
A little balance please folks. Although not as interesting as Practical Classics or Razzle, Flight does still have it's place. As a former RAF pilot I would like to remind you that there are a great number of military pilots who read/subscribe to Flight and some of the directories are aimed at them (even if just to make them think "why has air force X got such good kit when ours is such crap").

The ad sales pay the majority of the costs and a s Ace says you have to appease the advertisers (look at the percentage advertising content in the average newspaper or car mag). This is not an excuse for the rather less-than-interesting nature of some of the articles (Spaceflight for example - will any of us get a transfer to the Shuttle in the near future?).

I got my current and previous job fromj adverts in flight (and applied for, was offered, but ultimately turned down 3 others as well) and in my view it is still the best place for European aviators to find jobs advertised. The World Airline Directory also gives the addresses to cold send your CV's, don't forget!

I'm not keen on the new layout (too much like Avioation Weekly - but at least not printed on toilet paper) but give it a chance to develope, it's only the first week. How good were you folks on "Straight and Level 1" when learning to fly!

Message to the publishers - try to liven up the journalism. Look at Autoexpress/Practical Classics for examples on how to impart information and keep the reader awake.

13th Jun 2001, 15:55
Excuse me chaps/chapesses what is the URL for Fligh International anyways ? Can't seem to find it...

WT. :)

Strangely Brown
13th Jun 2001, 16:32
Funnily enough it's www.flightinternational.com (http://www.flightinternational.com)

13th Jun 2001, 17:25
That's why I get my info [rumour] from pprune and articles and pictures from Airliner World.

dv8 http://www.stopstart.fsnet.co.uk/smilie/cool6.gif

Wing Commander Fowler
13th Jun 2001, 21:24
Err.... Captain PPRUNE just to play devil's advocate here and since seeing the upset people have been caused over locked threads etcetera etcetera, could somebody pleeeeese tell me what exactly is rumour or news here????
zzzzzzzzz wake me up when it's all over please.

I'm finger lickin'

13th Jun 2001, 21:58
I reallydo not have anything against reading articles about everything that has to do with aviation including space. Lets take an exapmpe like civil simulator census. This makes finding a TRTO and companies that provide individual types a lot easier, and you know what type of sims they have.
Errors do apparently occur every now and then. Sim directory lists companies that have not been in operation for years. So makes me wonder where the info comes from.

I am more against the apparent lack of knowledge of contributing editors. I constantly find mistakes and errors in the magazine that are simply annoying.
For a magazine of that category and history would think that they would have the brains to verify the content of articles to a certain degree. Why not use more aviation professionals as contributors ???????????? Makes me just wonder.


13th Jun 2001, 23:27
I buy the FI 3 times a year, for the airline directory. It has provided me with many phonenumbers and addresses to send my application for jobs, and it provides info on routes and fleet. I have no use for other directories and ofcourse I still look for uncle roger and the job pages at the newsstand

13th Jun 2001, 23:34
Flight International = One big yawn.........

I would comment further but where this turgid mag is concerned I just cant be bothered.......................

'Keep the Stress Down'

13th Jun 2001, 23:57
Everyone seems so eager to pile on to Flight. Just what are you looking for? Flight's main purpose is to provide a summary of the week's news, and it seems to me to do a pretty competent job of that. I've been reading Flight for some 20-odd years, and it's always been for the main news section. Occasionally I've found one of the longer stories interesting, and occasionally some of the directories are useful, but that's almost never been the main reason for reading Flight, as far as I'm concerned (and I'm not looking for a job, so the jobs section hasn't been a main focus either). For more in-depth articles, I go elsewhere. But those other mags are much less systematic in their news coverage; if I only read them, I'd miss knowing about half the things that are going on. Which isn't to say I couldn't think of many ways to improve Flight.

14th Jun 2001, 01:11
Donīt like the new layout either.

But, the news are usually rather "new" and well researched.
Mostly facts, no assumptions.

Also had a AW-subscription for a year but didnīt renew it.

I find the regular newspaper rather boring most days too.

Whatīs the alternative weekly (!!) mag on civil transport?
Havenīt found one yet.
Anyone have a suggestion?

[This message has been edited by wonderbusdriver (edited 13 June 2001).]

14th Jun 2001, 02:54
The lack of technical information in the magazine drives me nuts.

I find it extremely annoying when an article says that there were important changes made to design to give some improvement...but then doesn't say what the changes were or, if the article is to do with a new development, it doesn't explain the how/why of how the new development changes things.

If it wasn't for the World Airline Directory & the job ads, I wouldn't buy the magazine in a pink fit.

But this year they even $crewed the WAD by making it completely alphabetical instead of the previous year's broad region categorisation.

What is it with these bloody stylists that think 'flash' & 'presentation' is a substitute for substance?

I cringe everytime I hear or read the phrase "We've given it a fresh, new look". Particularly when the 'fresh, new look' means that text of an article is spread all over the facing pages with boxouts or irrelevent, 'arty' pictures everywhere.

Just my pet peeve

[This message has been edited by Tinstaafl (edited 13 June 2001).]

14th Jun 2001, 03:20
I would cancel my long term subscription if it were not for the meagre job adverts. The very gradual and general degeneration is sad to see for a a once proud and respected mag.

I have strongly objected directly to FI about all of the extra unwanted mail that I get as a result of my subscription. They stop it for a few months, but always start sending additional advertising material again.

Has anyone out there in ppruneland found a way to continue the subscription with an effective permanent stop on the other junk?

14th Jun 2001, 03:40
.......if there's one thing that REALLY annoys me about Flight International, it's the bloody ridiculous units they use in their reports. Range in Km, TAS in kph, altitude in metres - why not use the normal nautical miles, knots and feet??

Remember when it also incorporated 'Royal Air Force Flying Review'.......?

I do, however, agree that it's gone downhill of late. World engines directory is just SO interesting; the difference between a -530-17B or a -560-12F is just so 'hold-the-front-page'...............zzzzzzzzzzz

[This message has been edited by BEagle (edited 13 June 2001).]

14th Jun 2001, 03:47

I saw an ad in Flight around the end of May, for B737 pilots. The position would require 6 months working in Europe and 6 months in the USA. Preference given to pilots with B737 NG experience and with green card. As a 737 pilot, I was very interested but did not buy that issue thinking I would see the job advertised as well on the web page. Either I checked the web page too late, or it was never there. Could ANYONE PLEASE dig up this issue and give me the contact details for this position. Many thanks.

14th Jun 2001, 03:58
<[email protected]>

There you have it!


No comment
14th Jun 2001, 19:14
At least the Airline Business website is up to date...

17th Jun 2001, 02:30
Dot.con, this does not help much of course. Can anyone dig the relevant issue up please and tell me the contact email address??


17th Jun 2001, 16:04
I've been reading Flight for nearly 30 years now, the new "look" magazine is not at all to my taste, it is just like a lot of summaries out of a business magazine, not really for aviation types!

17th Jun 2001, 16:19
That about sums up the magazine these days.
We pay for it so the business' can have their complimentary copies sent to their reception lobies!
I get other mags now that have great photo-features and contributers who dare to have an opinion on a variety of issues.
Like I said earlier;
Let Jeremy Clarkson have a crack at Flight!!
Anything to liven it up a bit.

18th Jun 2001, 00:38
Here's a thought, see how it feels.
Don't like it; don't buy it.

18th Jun 2001, 01:23
Anyone noticed how the new-look Flight looks exactly the same as the new-look Economist?

Except the Economist got it right of course...