That's not a license!

[strafer]

Something I thought when I first received my license and which was jogged by a letter I read in one of the GA mags last night - why is the CAA's PPL so rank? I sure I'm not the only one who, when that long-awaited license finally came through the post went from :O to :ugh:

A mucky brown faux plastic folder with A4 sheets from a 1970s' laser printer is not in keeping with the heroic, enigmatic and sexually alluring character that is the public perception of aviators/trix (A little overstated perhaps, but you understand my point). It doesn't look like an official license and it doesn't impress even small children.

Are there any pilots out there who are also master craftsman bookbinders, and could produce something that looks more like the £140 the CAA charge rather than a Woolworths' reject? I was thinking along the lines of a buckskin wallet, possibly in a regal dark blue with goldleaf wings and the word 'Pilot' in big letters.
Something that looks like it came from the country that produced Concorde rather than the one that produced the Austin Maestro.


(Obviously none of the above applies to people from Essex, who were probably delighted).

[Flyin'Dutch']

Who cares? It is not the size or colour that matters but the amount of fun you can have with it!

You have obviously never seen a Dutch licence? Not even a folder.

Just a 3" x 6" slip of paper with your details.

FD

[Kolibear]

(Obviously none of the above applies to people from Essex, who were probably delighted).


Care to expand a little on that strafer?

[Charlie Zulu]

If you don't like the brown plastic folder why don't you just go and buy a nice leather cover with gold edging from AFE or Transair? It makes it look a lot nicer... ;-)

Or just upgrade it to a Blue folder (CPL) or Green folder (ATPL)... ;-)

You've probably not seen an older FAA certificate... credit card size stiff paper with a few words on it. Still the new FAA certificates are very nice credit card plastic style with really nice designed background, (as well as the same wording).

[dublinpilot]

Nice new FAA ones? I got mine this time last year, and got the cardboard :( Maybe I'll just have to report it lost :)

ps. The IAA ones are multicolored writing on a white background. Looks like a kid let loose with MS word :rolleyes:

dp

[DFC]

You were given an A4 licence to make it more obvious when placed on the Pub Counter.

The rest of us get by with a far smaller document.

:D

Is the CAA still issuing brown licences to PPLs?

JAR-FCL which clearly states that JAR licences shall be white.

Regards,

DFC

[bar shaker]

Yep go on Strafer, tell us why Essex pilots are delighted.

[In Altissimus]

Do tell Strafer...

[RichyRich]

Strafer seems to be out the office ;)

But if you do come back, Strafer, could you also tell us how long it took to get your brown plastic? I'm asking as I'm about to send off for mine (hopefully pick up all the paperwork this Saturday). I'm kinda hoping that the summer madness has settled down, and it'll only be that '10 working days' I've read somewhere here.

Richy

[bar shaker]

Richy

A couple of mates have just got theirs back in 3 weeks.

[RichyRich]

Bar shaker

That doesn't sound too bad. Thanks.

Richy

[strafer]

Lordy, more replies for the throwaway comment at the end than the half-serious comments at the start.

To the Essex posters - I was simply listening to 'Billericay Dickie' in the car on the way to work. Please tell me you didn't take it seriously?!?!?

To CZ - I wasn't aware that Transair, etc did covers. I probably shan't buy one though, because there lies the rocky road to buying shirts with epaulettes, clip-on ties and a silver wings badge with 'PPL' in the middle.

To FlyingDutch - A 'Dutch license'. Would that be the same as a Dutch auction, Dutch uncle or Dutch oven?;)

I guess it's the same as the purple Euro passports. The old-style UK ones were far classier, but buying a blue cover in the airport shop is a little naff. (A bit 'Essex' if you will).

[Flyin'Dutch']

Aha, guys he got scared of you Essexers and is now picking on the Dutch!!

:yuk:

I riposte Sir, at least we still have colonies.

Wot do you have to say to that then!

FD

[In Altissimus]

FD,

We do still have Wales I believe :E

[ducks]

[strafer]

I riposte Sir, at least we still have colonies.
Bijlmer?

[Julian]

Strafer,

Its plainly obvious, the reason the UK licence is so expensive is that the plastic wallet it came in had to be JAA approved which took months of expensive research including foreign jollys to all member states to get cross acceptance.

With the FAA licence only the cardboard had to be approved by some guy sat in an office in Oklahoma, hence why is was free :D

Julian.

[Flyin'Dutch']

Strafer,

You are naughty!

FD

[Oscar Duece]

Yes but little you realise. This great nation of inovation, technology and common sense, that stands out among the lower euro trash. Can't even print the naff paper with ink that stays on. Just leave your licence in its lovely plastic sleeves for a few months and then when you take the paper out to add something to it. You find the print transferred to the clear sleeve. What a mess, and a joke for the money it would take to do it properly.
:rolleyes:

[Charlie Zulu]

Strafer,

Its plainly obvious, the reason the UK licence is so expensive is that the plastic wallet it came in had to be JAA approved which took months of expensive research including foreign jollys to all member states to get cross acceptance.

But the brown plastic wallet design was there before JAR-FCL came into force. lol ;)

You JAA guys have it easy on the wallet, before JAA the PPL cost more to have issued with the same brown folder... £201 I paid for mine. Mind you it is valid for life so have no 5 yearly renewal fee the JAA PPL's have associated with them. :)

> With the FAA licence only the cardboard had to be approved
> by some guy sat in an office in Oklahoma, hence why is was
> free

The new FAA certificates are free...

Oh dublinpilot asked if they can have theirs replaced with the new version. Take a look at http://faa.broaddaylight.com/faa/FAQ_35_173.shtm, it'll cost ya $2.

The new style FAA certificate came in on the 31st July.

Best wishes

Charlie Zulu.

[YYZ]

I do not care if it is Shi:mad: e brown i want mine NOW!!!!

Only 2 weeks so far but surely thats enough time to fire up a printer and lick a stamp!!! Oh and rob me of my money?:(

[Charlie Zulu]

YYZ,

But two weeks is more than enough for them to rob you of your money. That was probably done within a day or two of them received your application... ;)

They're probably just getting around to checking to ensure your application is all there and correct.

Best wishes,

Charlie Zulu.

[NineEighteen]

That's not a license! I agree. It's a licence.

:E

[DuncanF]

If it helps, posted my paperwork off on 24-Sep and got the licence back yesterday (21-Sep*).

Mind you they had me going a few times: Last Monday a recorded delivery from the CAA ... ripped it open ... passport. Next day another missive from them ... ripped it open ... receipt.

Hope yours arrives soon.

Duncan

*Edited to add ... I meant 21-Oct not 21-Sep for the license arriving!

[strafer]

Well spotted 0918, you're obviously a very clever man and not in any way a pointless pedant...:D

PS Re your post about Concorde on another thread - the plural of Concorde is Concordes, not Concorde's.

[Mr Wolfie]

Ducan F - Hats off to the CAA - To have them send you your licence 3 days prior to your applying to them is spectacular service.:D

Mr.W

[DuncanF]

Thanks Mr. Wolfie!

Doh! :oh:

Duncan

[Keef]

Thanks for that, CZ - I've sent off for one of they new placcy ones from the FAA. $2 for a new one is pretty good value, methinks!

I'll keep the old ones (all three of them) cos they may have historical value some day!

[WestWind1950]

At the moment some agencies in Germany need 8 to 11 weeks!! for processing the new licences! We don't need to send in passports or such... that would really cause trouble here.
The paper is a special white paper, no wallets (get your own!) and special HP laser printers are needed... ones that print on the sleek paper without making a mess, now or later.

Again, isn't European harmonisation great? :mad:

Westy

[Whirlybird]

Oooo, thanks guys. I'll get a new FAA one for $2 then. I never did like that silly bit of card...though it let me fly in the US so what the hell.

As for JAR licences, I just object to the fact that they have to be renewed. I'd far rather pay around £200 for something I've got for life, than pay a bit less and have to remember yet another date...date of next medical, next f/w biannual check, next rotary annual LPC, R44 rating (forgot and expired), night rating (never did any night flying and it expired)...and ...oh yes, don't let that licence expire!!!!:eek: :eek: There's just too much to remember.

Hmm, maybe we should start a new thread on this.

[ChrisVJ]

I still have my original licence which is a tan canvas stiff cover with a red cord thru to keep the pages in, rather classy, but then passports were in a stiff blue cover then, they were classy too.

My Canadian licence was, physically a bit of a disappointment, just a 4" x 6" piece of rather thing paper, If I put it in my wallet it'll disintegrate in a month so I keep it folded in the old cover.

[Maxflyer]

Nine Eighteen Licence is the US version. License is the UK spelling. If you want to be really pedantic you should write your screen name as 9 Eighteen.....

[NineEighteen]

Nine Eighteen Licence is the US version. License is the UK spelling.Maxflyer, I'm fairly sure that 'licence' is the UK spelling and 'license' is the US spelling but thanks; I am now sorry I mentioned it in the first place! I was having a small joke with strafer, hence the smiley.

P.S. The FAA call it an 'Airman Certificate' anyway, if you want to be 100% accurate. :}

9 Eighteen :rolleyes:

[Circuit Basher]

Bejasus, you get all sorts of discussions on Private Flying, don't you??!! :D

Just checked the copy of Concise Oxford Dictionary (5th Edition, from around 1968) that I have at work and -ence is given as the primary spelling for the noun (eg the Private Pilots Licence) with -ense given as an alternate spelling. However, -ense is given as the primary spelling for the verb (eg the CAA licenses pilots) with -ence given as an alternate spelling.

Traditionally, the -ense ending is regarded as being the US version, but my dictionary (old as it may be) does not uniquely accredit that spelling to the US alone. I'm personally in the -ence camp, myself!! :D

[dublinpilot]

CB is correct. "ce" refers to the actual document, or right. "se" is the act of granting the right.


As for replacing the US cardboard...It looks like they want me to go throught the whole process of verifying my foreign licence again! Surely can't be true, since I only did that last year, and they know now it's genuine! It's not the hassle that's the problem here, but the requirement to present myself at a FSDO! I think I'll stick with my bit of cardboard :)

[Charlie Zulu]

No problem at all Keef and Whirlybird.

[Tinstaafl]

Not wrong Whirly!

I have:

Oz licence - permanently valid (Yay!)
Oz IR - renew yearly (boo hiss)
Oz instructor - two yearly
Oz medical - yearly

UK licence - national not JAR - perm. valid (another Yay!)
UK IR - renew yearly
UK cert of test (or however the @!#$ing system works) - yearly or something

USA license (multicultural, I am) - perm valid (Yay! cubed)
USA IR - part of the license privileges so half of a Yay!
USA medical - yearly

It used to be that time limited devices lapsed at the end of the month AND had an early 'grace' period that would revalidate commencing from the the end of the lapse month. No longer thanks to some bureaucratic d!ckhead. Now lots of things lapse are strictly by date of the time period.


Meanwhile there's my nursing quals: UK (3 yrs) , Oz NSW & Oz Qld (both yearly).

What a pain in the @rse.

[411A]

A4 size?

For the visually challanged perhaps?

Now as for the FAA license, yes, a nice new multi-coloUred one (so i'm told)...but therein lies the problem.

Personally knew a chap some years ago who had 46 type ratings....his license went to four pages listing them all...

Later on this fellow became an FAA Inspector...and then the license stated...all categories, all ratings.

Expect he earned it, as he flew in the Berlin airlift, in a DC4, GCA approaches....nil visibility....ugh:uhoh:

Did my ATPL with this same fellow...his only comment was...'we coulda' had more fun in a DC-4.'
Sadly, I could only afford an AeroCommander.

Rats. 4 motors is BETTER.

[WeatherJinx]

I must agree the JAA PPL licence cover is really vile...somebody must've spent quite some time researching the colour swatches for that particular shade of baby-poo..almost as if meant as a veiled insult :rolleyes:

Still, best not to worry about it and just use it.

I've always thought that a smart, frame-able certificate would be a nice touch, though - after all it does represent an achievement.

What do others think?

Jx:cool:

[Keef]

My serious licence is a wondrous document, on parchment, with coloured crest and embossed seal, Bishop's autograph in real ink (not facsimile), and valid till age 70. "Triennial flight reviews" are required to keep it current.

Now, if the CAA/JAA produced a document like that, people might not complain about the cost of a PPL, and might even frame it and hang it on the wall!

[Whirlybird]

dublinpilot,

I think I'll stick with my American bit of cardboard too. Quote from US website for getting fancy new licences:

*NOTE: In compliance with the policy dated July 23, 2002, airmen applying for a replacement certificate issued on the basis of a foreign license under 14 CFR Part 61, Section 61.75 or 14 CFR Part 63, Section 63.42, must complete and submit a Verification of Authenticity of Foreign License, Rating, and Medical Certification form to the Airmen Certification Branch and appear at a FSDO for positive identification to make application for a replacement certificate.

:( :{

[Tinstaafl]

Stuff the fancy pages. I'll take something credit card sized that fits in my wallet. Licences, medicals, the lot.

Oz had it right when they switched from the old book style licence to a credit card piece of plastic. Then some f%^&ing idiot of a bureaucrat decided to change back to a book style thing that's larger than the original book ie it's now JAR size & can't fit in a shirt pocket, let alone one's wallet. I'd call them f^&*ing idiots again but the term isn't quite strong enough. :mad: :mad:

[WestWind1950]

@ Tinstaafl

ours can be folded to creditcard size... they even have pre-fold dents in the paper! The darn things need the size for all the future signatures.... but I, too, think they are stupid!

http://www.dorrie.de/images/wildflyer.gif Westy

P.S. I finally got mine last Friday... after 3 months waiting! :mad:

[YYZ]

Still no licence for me & guess what.....

The CAA are now using a new excuse, sorry cannot help as the postmen are on strike! We will get it there when we can.

Not there fault, but still bloody typical, glad the weather is poor or I would be getting even more annoyed.
:(