Perfect job....?

[big.al]

I may be dreaming, but let's just suppose for a moment that I could get my perfect flying job (flightseeing passengers around a beautiful island in a warm and sunny climate). What would I need, in order to conduct daytime flights only in VMC (no point in sightseeing in IMC!)..?

1) a CPL (would I even need an IR?)
2) an aircraft (four/six seater, low/high wing, retractable/fixed gear, purchased/leased... any views or type suggestions?)
3) an AOC..?
4) the right location, i.e. a non-congested airfield close to large numbers of tourists with money to spend
5) all the relevant insurances incl. liability insurance
6) lots of guaranteed good weather!
7) an understanding and generous bank manager to fund the set-up costs
8) any relevant permissions from the local authority

Would such a scheme actually make any money? Lets just say I charged pax £40 per person for a 45 min. flight and I had four pax at a time in a six seater, doing one flight every hour (when wx allows). That would be £160 income per hour less all the relevant taxes etc, minus the cost of the a/c lease, landing fees and fuel (no idea what a Saratoga/Cherokee Six or similar costs on a lease basis). Would it be more financially sound to have a four seater and only three pax?

No doubt someone will want to shout me down as an idiot for suggesting such a thing, but on the basis of this being just a pipe-dream, why not play along and give me some ideas what else I would need to consider.... after all it is a very boring Friday at work....:hmm:

[niknak]

Al

Find the island first, the rest will come.......... :p :ok:

[Deano777]

big.al

My sentiments exactly, this is what I dream of, although I would love to fly the heavies for airlines I would LOVE to fly pleasure trips around the barrier reef in Australia, funny as Ive been thinking alot lately about this, Australia is the best country in the world bar none, but bear in mind, you will have to learn all about the place, how it was formed etc etc and be a pilot as well as the narrator, but this may not be possible with flying the plane too, you know how hard it is for us men to multitask LOL, so I would include a narrator's wages in your calculations

good luck :ok:

D.

[dublinpilot]

A narrator? With only 3 or 5 seats available to pax, you couldn't afford to fill one with a narrator! You could use a recording instead. I took a pleasure trip across the Grand Canyon, and all that standard narriation was a recording on the intercom, with the pilot only pointing out things specific to that day.

If you were doing this in Europe, then remember part of your price is going straight to the VAT man! Albeit, you could claim back the VAT on your fuel, and purchase price of the aircraft (if applicable).

Personally, I think you would find it very difficult to make a living out of it, if only being able to accomodate 3 or 5 pax, unless you were doing it somewhere with consitantly good weather, and a good tourist trade.

Just because the weather is flyable, doesn't mean that a pax is going to enjoy being bumped around in turbalance!

Lets say you charged £40 per flight, on a 4 seat aircraft. That mean that in the UK you could keep £34 of that, and send the rest to the VAT man. So if you are luckey and manage to fill all three space seats, you have a turnover of £102 for the flight. Now take off the cost of your fuel, maintenance, engine fund, insurance and other costs (all with out VAT of course), and I suspect you'll have very very little profit if any. Then of course you'd have to take allowance of all the days you can't fly!

So therefore, either you need a bigger aircraft, which you need to be sure of filling, or need to be able to charge more!

dp

[Floppy Link]

Instead of sightseeing tourists, what if they HAD to fly to get to their resort ...

Maldives (http://www.mataxi.com/)

[Timothy]

D'yer'know the saddest, saddest thing?

After a couple of years even that dream would get boring, doing the same thing every day, several times a day, day in, day out :( :(

In my experience, get a job flying charter executive jets, mixing VIP and ambulance. You do a different route every day, meet fascinating people and go to a mixture of the world's busiest IFR environments (FRA, LHR etc) and little VFR places in the middle of nowhere. That's the life in aviation. Beats SEPs and tropical islands, Sheds and 747s into a cocked hat.

W

[Deano777]

Originally posted by WCollins
After a couple of years even that dream would get boring, doing the same thing every day, several times a day, day in, day out



I would never ever get bored of seeing the wonderful coastline of Australia's Barrier Reef, obviously you would have to inject some new ideas into your tours and even maybe fly a different route like the Whitsundays for a change ( have 2 planes, 2 pilots and alternate who flies what )

DP, I was thinking more along the lines of a Dornier 328 or the like :D that way there would be ample space for pax and a narrator :D, im sure with some careful planning there must be a way to make a profit

Ok Im off to buy me a lottery ticket :ok: ;)

D.

[ChrisVJ]

Interesting post because a friend of mine basically does just that.

1, You need two planes min, must be high wing, sightseeing is the draw, say a C180, carries four passengers (plus pilot), and say a Beaver, carries 6 or 7 plus pilot. Get both kitted with sightseeing windows etc. (That way you fly parties of 3/4, 5/7, 10/11 in the most efficient way possible.

2. Need a tame tourist business, coach tours of mature tourists etc. Sorry, you have to give considerable discounts and commissions. Inducement to the agents and a further reason for the tourists to book. Typical cost around here is $80 plus US for 25 mins, discounted to about $50 net for most of the passengers. Walk ins etc are the bonus, they won't keep you in business in a hundred years.

3. Allow for typically 100 hrs/plane/month busy season, less for shoulder. If business is poor, Like now after 9/11, you might fly as little as 60 hrs/mo high season. Weather can block out whole periods, you have to allow for it.

In case you think, "that's not much, we'd do more than that.' 60 hrs/mo is four flights a day, 7 days week. Some days you might do 5 or 6 if you are really busy, but some days you will do one, some days none. (and that is per plane after 15 years of making friends, customers and contacts in a very busy resort town.)

4. New insurace wrinkle. Insurance companies who used to insure for 'seasons' and offer 'non moving only' for remainder of year are now insisting on full annual insurance, just about doubles insurance rate, which in itself went up about 40% in last two years.

5. Also got to allow for hundred hour checks etc. If you are not right on a service facility you not only lose flying time but you also have ferry cost.

Still think you can do it?

[Deano777]

Originally posted by Deano777
Ok Im off to buy me a lottery ticket :ok: ;)


Yep :E

[Gertrude the Wombat]

As ChrisVJ says, you need a Beaver.

And, of course, a floatplane rating to go with it.

And you won't get bored doing the same thing every day if you pick somewhere with a general demand for bush flying as well as just flightseeing.

[knobbygb]

Hey this all sounds a bit seriouis. I have the same dream as big.al and hearing that it isn't possible is very depressing.

OK, so I KNOW deep down that it isn't going to happen, but I still daydream about it. My business plan is:

Win lottery. (hmmm... sound familiar?)
Buy a villa on one of the nicer greek islands with an airfield (Naxos is my current favourite).
Base a six seater at the local airfield doing scenic flights and perhaps the odd inter-island charter for the richer visitors.
Bribe the local GCAA official with free flights for his beautiful daughters.
Make a trading loss of perhaps £20,000 per year for the next 10 years (so pay no tax :ok: )
Retire on the remainder of my lottery winnings and learn to fly helicopters...

Does anyone who wants to go into business want to start a "Private Flying Lottery Syndicate" with me and big.al ? Guaranteed left-hand seat up front for any contributors.

Seriously though, what would one need licence wise? Would a simple CPL be enough for sightseeing flights (I'm thinking here of just making a few extra quid in my spare time with an owned aircraft - not a fully blown business like above).

[redsnail]

Folks,
I used to do it.

And you do get sick of it............

[Tinstaafl]

...very, very quickly. :ugh:


The costs are large. If you find this mythical place what's the chance that someone else is already there. Alternatively where do you get your maintenance done?

Depending on which bit of the world you're in you'll be up for:

1. An AOC. Expect a fair bit of investment in this. Can include Authority vetting of of financial resources
2. Appropriate organisation structure: Chief Pilot approved & appointed (minimum experience requirements must be met), maintenance controller, many & varied paperwork trails to be used & kept eg ops manual, fuel monitoring, pax manifests, annual a/c usage surveys from the authority etc etc
3. An aircraft. Buy? Lease? What sort? Don't forget the more onerous maintenance requirements for public transport. Insurance. Fuel supply availability AND cost.
4. Staff. Might just be you but who answers the phone/organises the next group while you're doing a flight?
5. Marketing, including alliances/special deals with the local tour operators to feed in the pax.
6. Depreciation AND what return could your funds have in different investment?
7. Premises. All the usual premises costs.
8. Replacement pilot(s) while someone's away on holidays. Induction costs to ensure they operate IAW your operations manual. Reduced staffing levels during the period instead? What about the 'other' a/c if this means pilot numbers=aircraft numbers - 1?

These just off the top of my head. It goes on and on and on and....