Latest on our pensions??

[truckietypebloke]

is there any good news coming out of this awesome government about our pensions.... is someone like me who joined about 6 years ago still oing to get it at the 16/38 point?

:} his smile doesnt work for me, vote tory!!!

[European Crash]

Latest copy of the RAF News has quite a good (though strictly speaking, not official) summary. Transfer details are sparse, but I suspect few would want to tx to the new system.

Crash

[Oggin Aviator]

If you are in at the moment you can stay on the existing scheme, however at some point in the future you will be given the opportunity to transfer if you wish. All people joining after a certain date will automatically go onto the new scheme. Is this date going to be April 1 of some year. Significant if it is !! :D

Oggin

[sarboy w****r]

Anyone who is in now can elect to remain in the present scheme.

However, can anyone tell me if one would be obliged to sign up to the new scheme on promotion? i.e. does one need to sign up to new terms of service on promotion and does this then include the new pension deal? Seems like a poor deal if you are forced to go on to the new scheme.

Beware of any scheme that is "cost neutral"... If there is no new money going into the new scheme then they need to be making savings somewhere else.

On initial inspection it seems like a very poor deal for those with some time left to serve. After the new scheme is implemented any time then served will no longer be available as a deferred pension at 55, whether you elect to transfer to the new scheme or not (need to wait until 65 - I think, willing to stand corrected on the age). And of course you will need to serve for an extra 2 years to get the immediate pension if you transfer to the new scheme. And in return what do we get? Enhanced death in service benefits, also available to unmarried partners. I personally think it would be better staying on the old system and ensuring you have adequate life insurance for those you will leave behind.

All of the above reasoning is based on the premise that you are an officer. I think the scheme has very real benefits for NCOs and junior ranks. Main bonus being that pension comes after 18 years, not 22.

Thanks but no thanks Mr Blair. And the statement from CDS didn't mention any of these concerns...

SBW

[maniac55]

Sarboy

Your not suggesting that the Govt and our lords & masters made a glossy statement which sounds great but is utterly devoid of substance, surely not. :D

Re-engament, promotion etc will almost certainately be tied to the new scheme, watch this space.

[sarboy w****r]

Heaven forbid! I have complete faith in my lords and masters to look after my welfare and that of my brothers in arms, and to not put their personal advancement before their principles... Or alternatively, I'll just sit and watch them praise a system that means I'll get less money in my pocket...

It wouldn't be so bad if those that were in could elect to remain on the old system, come what may, but that just isn't the case. If I leave before the immediate pension point, I will still miss out on the years of service I put in between now and leaving, because I will have to wait much longer before getting the deferred pension for these years! And if I am forced to go onto the new system on promotion, I will have to serve longer before getting a pension, and the pension will be less. How can this be a good thing?

I await the spanking from P&SS for this with anticipation!

SBW

[maniac55]

SBW

At the risk of sounding a manic depressive and utterly disillusioned. Since I joined the RAAF (that's Royal Accounts & Admin Farce), pre '89 terms of service, I've seen any number of benefits & perks drained away from us, and nothing in return. This pension scheme is just another such drain. :(

Lets be honest, when did we last get a decent pay rise? In the last 12 months, we've covered the Fire dispute, fought a war, the war against terror (who says the Americans don't understand irony), as well as our usual duties. Will we get a decent pay rise next year? Of course not, there's a huge hole in the public purse and we're a far way down the political agenda.

Hence I'm finishing my 22 and then I'm outta here, unless there's a radical change for the better (I'm not holding my breath though).

Now where did I put my Valium? Oh sod it I'll have another glass of vino instead:cool:

[The Gorilla]

And let us not forget the tradition of we have had a major conflict: Let us now reduceth thy funding to ensureth that we can never do it again!!

:O

[maniac55]

As I said there's a hole in the purse, and you always cut back on insurance first.

The Gorilla

Have you left yet?

When are you going to let us know about what happened in the Gulf?

[brit bus driver]

No mention of any changes to TOS in recent blue letter; will let you know if anything is forthcoming once I have asked the pre-requisite questions.

[Green Bottle 2]

To answer a few misperceptions:

1. If you are in the current AFPS you do not have to transfer to the new scheme even if you get promoted. The only time this might occur if you leave the Services and rejoin.

2. At some point in the future serving members will be given the choice to join the new scheme. If they do not choose to transfer the option will not be given again.

3. The cost saving to make it cost neutral will come from the fact that a deferred pension if you leave before the IPP will be paid at 65 not 60. Also your immediate pension will be paid 2 years later for officers. The third way may be if you leave after IPP and before 55 - the payments may well be less than the immediate pension you would receive under the current scheme. They have yet to announce what these payments would be.

4. The improvements are the death in service payments which could be mitigated by separate life insurance. The final pension at 55 will be 50 % of the final salary i.e. the largest sum over the last 3 years of service which is potentially better than the current scheme where the pension is based on representative salary.


I am an interested party and not the management so all my info is drawn from the pubs that are freely available to all.

GB2

[BATS]

There are a few other anomalies that you should consider before you think about switching from old to new.

The paraphernalia that came with the announcement makes mention of an income stream for those who leave between IPP and 55 and not an immediate pension as at present . Clearly the enhanced full career benefits will have to be paid for, and given the statistical longevity, or lack thereof, for military personnel on retirement, the change from 60 to 65 for preserved pensions will not make an earth shattering difference to the final bill. It is very clear from the documentation that immediate pensions will be in a different form than at present and it also states clearly that they will be of a lesser value than at present.

In a nutshell, the new scheme is great if you intend to stay for a full career to 55, but if there is any question of you leaving before 55, then I suggest very close scrutiny of what is on offer when the figures are finally published.

Hanging in a Belfry.......:uhoh:

[Green Bottle 2]

Latest on Immediate Pensions under new scheme published. At first glance new IPP pension is significantly worse £6000 for a Major or equivalent at 40/18 yr point with about £36K lump sum compared to £12000 and £36K lump sum. Rises to £9000 index linked at 55, then £12000 index linked at 65 with another lump sum of £36K.

Current pension £12000 at 38/16 with £36K untill 55 then £12K index linked tfn. Overall a rough calc means you'll be about £90K out of pocket if you switch to the new scheme and leave at 40/18.

GB2

[Stan Bydike]

GB2,

Have you got a link to those figures. From what you post am I correct in assuming that if you do the full "stay till 55" bit you will no longer get your full pension but have to wait another 10 years.

ie on retirement after 30 odd years service you will have to get another job out of necessity not out of personal choice.:mad:

[tu chan go]

Green Bottle is right; if you are on the old scheme, you do not have to change if you don't want to. Decision date is April 2007. All new entrants from Apr 2005 will automatically go onto new scheme.

Stan

If you leave at 18/40 point, you get 50% of accrued annual preserved pension entitlement. Every year after 18/40, the amount goes up 1.66% up to age 55, by which time it should be about 75% (I haven't done the sums!). If you leave at 55, you get 75% of accrued annual etc and at 65, you get the full pension adjusted for RPI.

The "lump sum" paid on retirement has been split into 2 payments; 50% when you leave, the rest at 65.

[Lord Trenchards Brat]

Looking at the figures Ive made my mind up like most. Perhaps they will "enforce" you to change to the new system through promotion and extension of service, because I cant see many takers otherwise.

[RobinXe]

Is this Apr 05 date for certain? Can you enter old scheme immediately on joining?

I ask as I'm starting IOT at the end of May, and the general feeling I'm getting here is I would be better off on the old scheme?

[bluetail]

I left the mob in 1999 as a TG1 Chf Tech after 29 (fun filled ) years, I hit 55 in 2007 so does anyone have anything to offer on whether or not the changes to pensions will affect me.
It seems that there is mucho discontent amongst you all on the inside , but I get nothing in the post from the Pensions People except the annual Tax Bill so am not in the loop to what is going on inside.

It seems strange (well it doesnt actuall) to me that yet again the shinnees are messing with pensions, its obviously a way of NOT paying for service and another way of trying to scrimp and save, there were rumours flying when I was about to leave about Pension changes but I got ouyt instead. Typical really the old adage "2 days after you left "WHO ARE YOU THEN" still stands

O Please someone cheer me up.

BT

[green brain]

robinxe, the best advice would be to stick with the current scheme which you will begin IOT with and make a decision later when all the detail has been clarified. However, it looks to me that nobody in their right mind would want to transfer to the new scheme.

According to a shiny purple leaflet that dropped into my in-tray today the new scheme is 'planned' to be introduced for new entrants in April 2005. It states:

"Currently serving members of the Armed Forces will have the opportunity to join the new scheme as soon as possible after that, and no later than April 2007, depending on how quickly delivery systems can be put in place"

Reading between the lines i would guess that the deadline will probably be extended as provision of 'delivery systems ' will probably warrant another overrunning, waste-of-money PFI contract for the provision of a few reconditioned PCs.

On another note, the leaflet i have explains that unmarried partners will be able to be registered as a 'substantial partner' allowing them to receive any death in service benefits or pensions in the event of death. Will this facility also be extended to the existing pensions scheme?

[Lord Trenchards Brat]

bluetail

I think your going to be all right, as you have "Grandfather" rights.

May be worth a letter to the pensions board for clarification though:ok:

I expect, although several years to go until my IP point, that I should attract exactly the same deal as yourself, unless "They" come up with devious schemes to get you to sign away the "Right". Just as they did with JTs following fitter courses in the 80's with their time promotion to Cpl. Too many good muckers lost at the 12 yr point with that.:{

LTB

[detgnome]

From what I can see any one planning on leaving at their 38/16 point should stay on the old scheme. Once you get past that it gets a bit difficult as it will depend on the likelihood of you staying until 55.

Staying until 55 will almost certainly result in a better pension than at present, particularly if the '50%' rule applies to PA (nothing to say it won't) - you could be looking at a pension of £30k at 55.

The problem area is between 38 and 55 - mucho careful maths requied to work out what is the best deal depending on when you expect to leave.

[tu chan go]

Don't bother asking the Pensions people about this! I called and said that I was thinking of applying for the PA spine and how would that affect my pension? The numpty on the other end of the phone said,"What's the PA spine?". I explained all about Professional Aviator and was told, "Well, that sounds like a good deal. I would go for that then" I asked if the new pension scheme would have a big effect on my decision.

"What new pension scheme?" I was asked!!!!

They were completely clueless and not much help!

:mad: :mad:

[Green Bottle 2]

So far from my reading of all the available info and questions to certain of those in the know, you will stay on the old pension scheme unless you decide to change to the new scheme. You will not have to change to the new scheme on promotion or branch change. The only time this may occur is if you leave the service and rejoin.

From all I have read so far you would have to be mad to enter the new scheme. It is designed overall to save money and certainly the majority of people in this day and age will be worse off under the new scheme. I suggest anyone who is considering transfering to the new scheme think again and seek independant advice.

To those who will join under the new scheme, it still offers a good deal compared to civvy street. You only have to look at the turmoil that pensioners and those about to draw pensions are going through. If you get the chance when you join though opt for the old scheme every time.

The PAS combined with the new pension looks like a very good deal. On the face of it you could retire at 55 on an on appointment group captain (most pilots would reach level 35) pension! I've not seen anything yet on paper to contradict this.

{edited to add last paragraph}

[Lord Trenchards Brat]

GB2

One rumour I've heard is that if you commission from the ranks in the future (don't have a date) you will technicaly leave as an airman and re-attest the following day (re-joining) :confused:
Not sure how pension rights gained as an airman and any new pension accrued under the new scheme would be joined but I bet it saves a wedge!:{:mad:

[Ginger Beer]

Just suppose you did a total of 35 yrs, 20 on old scheme and 15 on new scheme.
As a member of PAS, would you get 50% of final PAS salary covering your total service, or 20 yrs worth of the old and 15 yrs worth of the new scheme?????

GB

[Green Bottle 2]

LTB,

Not sure how it would be in the case you mention. A brief from one in the know stated that membership of the AFPS was independant of your other terms of service so where they might change, the AFPS does not.

If anyone is in the position of going for a commission they would be well advised to get independant advice. Additionally I suggest they should insist that the status of their pension and new terms of service on comissioning be confirmed in writing.

GB2

[Down 4 Reprogram]

GB2

When I got my letter offering PAS there was an explanation of the pension details.

Current PAS pension = basic pension + (number days on PAS x weighting).

Where weighting was, I seem to remember, about 45p for a Nav and slightly more for a pilot.

The end result was that if you served until 55 you ended up with a pension increase of about £3k.

I'm sure there will be some such wacky formula for the new pension scheme as well, so it may be a bit more difficult to calculate what you might get - possible not just 50% of final pay as you would get on the "career stream".

[Throttle Pusher]

Link to MOD pension site

http://www.mod.uk/issues/pensions/index.htm

Good luck, going to be some difficult decisions to make but the new system looks good if you stay 'till 55.

[Yeller_Gait]

TP,

Thanks for the link. An interesting snippit that I had not seen or heard about before with regard to the new pension scheme, you are no longer allowed to commute your pension to increase the lump sum payment.

To quote the website

Inverse commutation reducing lump sum to increase pension. Resettlement commutation no longer allowed by Inland Revenue.

I have also heard that future pension laws may make the lump sum payment taxable, even for those on "reserved rights", as it would be a UK government law change as opposed to an MOD change. I think this change may be several years down the line yet.

[HOODED]

YG, can't see tha taxable lump sum happening. Can you immagine the outflow from the Military when that's announced? There are lots of guys with a pension earned who whouldn't hang around long if that were due to come in. I'd be one of em!

[Throttle Pusher]

From the question and answer section of the MOD pension site:

"Q. Will those on enhanced pay spines, ie medical/dental officers and Professional Aviators, receive a pension based on their individual pensionable pay rate?

A. Yes. All pensionable pay will be used when calculating the final pensionable salary. It is only Additional Pay, such as flying pay, submarine pay etc, which are not pensionable and are not therefore included."

I read that as you will recieve a pension based of 50% of your final PAS salary as Professional Aviators do not recieve flying pay. In todays terms for NCA, a master leaving at 55 gets in the region of 16K. On the "shadow rates" that accompanied the latest info on NCA PAS, a master would finish on 50k and therefore a pension of 25K.

If I'm correct in my assumptions that is a marked improvement, just don't leave before your 55! As for the tax issue, outside MOD's control, just hope this or future goverments see sense and dont discourage people from providing for their old age.

[Green Bottle 2]

d4p,

Are the details you spoke about are under the current pension scheme? If you were to transfer to the new scheme PAS pilots could get the same pension as an on appointment Gp Capt pension. So there may be a lot of mileage in transfering to the new scheme is you are on PAS.

This seems to be confirmed by TPs post.

GB2

[SinkingMallard]

I spoke to someone at Innsworth a few weeks ago to try to establish what my pension would be at 55 on the new scheme as PA.

His answer -

"I can't tell you, because it hasn't been worked out." :sad:

The long and the short of it was that you will get the full 50% if you have been on the new pension scheme for your full service career - none of us then.:*

If we transfer to the new pension at say age 40, having served 19 years - you will transfer those 19 years to the new scheme. BUT don't count on it being on a 1 for 1 basis - 19 years on the old scheme will probably not buy you 19 years on the new scheme. So when you retire at 55 you may not 34 pensionable years and thus may not get the full 50% pension.:ugh:

So don't count on half a Group Captain's pension until they publish how the transfer is going to work.

[Down 4 Reprogram]

GB2

Yes the figures were from the current scheme, I’ve managed to dig them out and you are correct:

(all figures 2002 for Flt Lt’s – last example I have)

Pilot:

Current max PAS pension = 25961
New pension (50% final salary) = 30736
Extra pension = 4775

WSO(N):

Current max PAS pension = 24913
New pension (50% final salary) = 28627
Extra pension = 3714

WSO(RC):

Current max PAS pension = 24497
New pension (50% final salary) = 27783
Extra pension = 3286

Gp Capt Level 1 in 2002 was paid 61473 basic – new pension of £30736 ( i.e. same as top rate for Flt Lt pilot as you suggested).

As SinkingMallard says, the new figures will only be valid for someone who has built up a full pension on the new system – what you actually get will depend on the transfer details. The blurb I have downloaded from the MOD Website says that transfers from old to new will be on an “actuarially neutral basis”, which I take to mean they work out how much your current pension is worth and use it buy years from the new pension. Inevitably this will be less because the years will cost more.

Since the old scheme only counted reckonable service from 21, it would seem that someone such as myself could have actually served 35+ years and still retire at 55 having not accumulated enough reckonable service for a full pension :-(

D4R

[DP Harvey]

Down4,
I thought reckonable service (RS) started at age 18. Is there a difference between Officers and Airmen?

I joined at age 18 yrs 6 months and I presume I will achieve 36 and a half years RS as an airman?

[Down 4 Reprogram]

DP H

Yes there is a difference, Officers unfortunately currently have RS from 21. As you rightly say for other ranks it starts counting from 18 - don't ask me why.

For the new pension the RS is 18 for all ranks.

D4R

[betty_boo_x]

Well christmas has come early for the NCA who are offered PAS, if the pension emerges into a 50%ish final salary deal they will be considerably better off.
My question for "Sinking Mallard" is, as the details are still embryonic and I contribute "nothing" (technically) how can some years be worth less than others? I cant contribute less (or more) than zero for my "non-contributory" pension.
It seems to me the bean counters are just about getting it right for once and looking to provide a representative deal for those who can remember when it was all green fields round here.

[Biggus]

betty_boo_x

My understanding of the new pension scheme is that from the very outset it was a cost neutral exercise. That is to say that there is no more money available. Therefore, if O's and NCA'S on the PAS spine are to get enhanced pensions of 50% final salary then somebody somewhere must be losing out!! (Maybe by offering b##ger all people retention/PAS in the first place!!)

Look around at the outside world (most of industry getting rid of company pensions/final salary schemmes as too expensive), call me cynical, but I can't see us returning to the land of green fields!!

[Yeller_Gait]

Biggus,

As you said, the new pension scheme is intended to be cost neutral, and where the government will save money is on not paying out such large pensions to those who retire at IPP.

From the MOD website

A new system of Early Departure Payments (EDPs) for those serving 18 yrs (and having reached age 40), to replace the current IP, with a similar benefits structure, but some reduction in cost to help fund improvements elsewhere (notably to dependant’s benefits) and the cost of pensioners living longer. EDPs will be payable until the preserved pension comes into payment at age 65.

The design of the scheme has been shaped by a number of factors. In finalising the overall pension scheme design, it had been agreed that the new EDP should cost around one third less than the current IP. In precise terms the reduction in cost is 2% of the pensionable pay bill, where each 1% is currently worth £50 million.

Full details of the EDP scheme can be found here (http://www.mod.uk/issues/pensions/new_afps/edps.htm)

I particularly like the bit about "some reduction" .....ONE THIRD

[Ginseng]

As they say, you pay your money (or have it payed for you so that it can be called "non-contributory") and you take your choice. Having examined the proposals for the new Pension Scheme, so far as they are currently known, including the Early Departure Payments, I cannot see that anyone serving on the current scheme is likely to find the offer of transfer a good deal unless thay can be absolutely sure (and who can!) that they will be able to serve until their 55th birthday. For me, the implications of having to retire just one year early on the new sceme would be the loss of many £ks by the time I reach 65, even when the second lump sum payment is taken into account. That assumes, of course, that I live long enough to collect it! And I have already completed 23 yrs Reckonable Service. I think it will be a case of "Thanks but no, Thanks". If you are already in, or about to join before 1 April 05, and think you will leave at or by age 40, look carefully at the figures and calculate how much worse off you would be on the new scheme. I promise you, you will be amazed. Of course, the improvements elsewhere in the scheme may be important to you, but you can buy 4x salary Death-in-Service Benefit within the current scheme by means of a very reasonably-priced "In-Scheme AVC", which is very cheap life assurance. Just ask your OC PSF for details.

[DP Harvey]

Gingseng, why do you consider that you "might have to retire" at 54 years old? What circumstances would make you leave the RAF so close to a good pension, which is what it will be for you, if you are high up on either the career or the PAS scale at the time?

Am I missing something?

[Ginseng]

DPH,

Well, just suppose you become unfit for further service, or your trade is effectively made redundant, or your personal circumstances change so as to make it impossible to continue. It does happen. The comparison I was making was not between leaving early and making the magical 55th birthday. It was between the relative implications of leaving equally (and only a little bit) early from the current and future schemes. This is a risk, however small, that everyone who signs on to 55 will carry and if it happens to you, the financial effects would be significantly different between the two schemes. Remember too that many, particularly in the non-commissioned ranks, will never be offered service to age 55, and therefore will not in future receive a pension at all until their preserved pension becomes payable. What they will get, if they have done 22 years and been in service on their 40th birthday, is an early departure payment worth substantially less than their current pension stream. Starting to get my drift now? Happy to indulge in further discussion. When the time for the choice comes, this will be the most significant financial decision most will have had to make since joining up. We all need to talk about this an awful lot more. Pity the guys and gals who join after 1 Apr 05 - they will never have the choice. Regards

[DP Harvey]

Ginseng, I'm more than happy to discuss this. I agree that most ground airmen (90%+) will not reach age 55 and those with a choice are best advised to stick with the existing system.

There is also the risk of injury, etc. I believe that those of us who are reasonably certain (as much as you can be, touch wood) to reach age 55, and therefore have only a few years left, will not receive a substantially better pension anyway, due to the short(ish) time in the scheme.

There is a lot of loose talk bandying about, based on the 50% of the final salary (£51K now on Level 20 PAS, rising to £59K in the next 6 years at 2.5% growth), which needs to be addressed. Folk ought to realise that they will only receive one 70th of their final annual pay for every year in the scheme, which will be added to whatever is transferred from the old scheme. I've calculated that a Level 20 PAS MACR, which is what I shall be when I leave at 55 yrs old will get 6/70ths of £59K (£5K) added to whatever I take across in the next year or so, which will probably be about £15K. When compared with what I might have got with the old scheme index linked to my retirement date, its probably about £1K more.

So, do I feel lucky? Is it worth the risk of an unforeseen early departure with a deferred pension at age 65 in order to receive another thousand pounds, approx, every year for the rest of my life? Its not that easy to answer, but with only 6 years to go I think I'll go for it. If it had been 10 years or more...hmmm....doubtful.

Regards

[BEagle]

I decide to leave 3 years early because I didn't like what I was hearing about the meddling with pensions, PA spine hollow promises and uncertain greedy Gordon tax thievery. As well as because of all the lies, spin and ever increasing cuts and ever increasing overstretch. Which means that I don't get an inflation-linked pay rise over the next 3 years as a result.

Imagine if the PA spine had been around for the last 10 years and the currently rumoured cuts were just about to hit. If you were 40 and decided to PVR, you'd be well in the $hit. You would have to stay 'locked-in' for another 15 uncertain years of suffering if you weren't to lose out hugely.

As an 'in the know' Binnsworth inmate remarked to me this time last year when I did 8 weeks of Binnsworth porridge - "Don't trust the bug.gers an inch, get out whilst you can. Wish I could"!

[Ginseng]

DPH

Ah, now you are taking the discussion to even more interesting depths. Remembering that the initial review document spoke of “cost neutrality” and transfer being on an “actuarially neutral basis”, it is possible to make some informed guesses as to what the transfer arrangements might look like. You are probably fairly close to the mark. I suspect the offers will be calculated to place you on exactly the same pension as you would have achieved in the current scheme, assuming you serve to 55. It is just possible that you will be offered the chance to achieve a 50% of final salary pension, but personally, I think pigs might fly.

Why do I say this? Well, I can see no case that HM Treasury would support for offering a substantial increase in pension to someone who has already served a fair portion of their time, purely for agreeing to transfer to a new pension scheme. It has already been stated, for example, that you will not be able to gain more qualifying years on transfer just because your age on joining the current scheme was below the minimum reckonable age at the time (21 for Officers, 18 for OR’s). Nor will additional/specialist pay suddenly become pensionable within the new scheme. Interestingly, although the initial discussion proposals spoke longingly of a true “final salary” scheme, the more recent documents have pointedly used the term “final pensionable salary” (italics mine). This can hide a multitude of sins, since even the current Representative Rates of Pay could fairly be described as your “pensionable salary”.

All of this has probably started to worry some of the PAS personnel, who may be living with the expectation that their higher basic rate of pay will all be convertible to a 50% pension on transfer. Just consider for a moment how the MoD would be shooting itself in the foot if it allowed that to happen. To quote the MoD, additional pay is not pensionable because it has always been paid at rates which recognise that fact; if it were, it would have been paid at lower rates. So is the MoD really going to offer you the chance to convert all of your flying pay to basic pay, and then choose to have it fully pensioned by joining the new scheme? I can hear the pigs getting airborne now! Just consider this quote on Transition from the MoD’s own report on the consultation process:

“Work is being undertaken on the detail of the transfer arrangements. This will need to ensure that the transitional arrangements are not over-complicated to the point that the choice cannot be properly understood and will also need to address the small numbers of scheme members who may be in a position to gain unreasonable benefit from the choices that are given to them on transfer.”

We will all just have to wait to see the detail of our offers, then do the sums, then take independent advice ……………

Regards

[DP Harvey]

Gingseng,

The following info is extracted from Section 7 of the New AFPS - Framework of Scheme (PDF 54Kb) at http://www.mod.uk/issues/pensions/index.htm

Its the overview of how we transfer into the new scheme. The tables mentioned in the text will be interesting.


SECTION 7 – TRANSFERS IN AND OUT
7.1. This section will apply to members who leave service with a preserved pension, or have
not accrued 2 years qualifying service (but see para 2.4), and to members who join or re-join the
new AFPS after having accrued pension benefits in another pension arrangement. Pension
credits arising from a pension share may not be transferred in or out.
Transfers In
7.2. A member who joins or re-joins the new AFPS with pension benefits in another pension
arrangement may apply to have those benefits transferred to the new AFPS, provided that the
member applies within 12 months of joining the scheme. Transfers-in will not be accepted
where an individual is under notice of invaliding or of discharge in some other way.
7.3. An individual who elects to transfer pension rights from another pension arrangement
into the new AFPS will be credited with reckonable service in the new AFPS in respect of those
transferred pension rights, calculated using tables prepared by the Government Actuary’s
Department.
7.4. The transfer value tables will be applied to the transfer value to give periods of
reckonable service for personal pension, lump sum and widow(er)’s/partners’ benefits. The
length of reckonable service credited may, however, be restricted where the limits imposed from
time to time by the Inland Revenue for approved occupational pension schemes or under AFPS
rules for maximum reckonable service would otherwise be exceeded.
7.5. Where a member has pension rights under the new AFPS that have been credited to
another pension arrangement by means of a transfer value payment and those pension rights
are subsequently transferred back into the new AFPS, that service will buy the benefits
determined by the scheme actuary as equivalent to the transfer payment made to the AFPS.
Precise arrangements for transfers-in will be the subject of detailed further work.
7.6. Where service credited within the AFPS is less than service served in the exporting
scheme, the calendar length of the previous service will count for the purpose of the two-year
qualifying period for pension benefits. However, neither actual service in previous employment
nor reckonable service credited in the AFPS will count towards the minimum period of service
necessary for the award of Early Departure Payments or full pension.

[Ginseng]

DPH

Thanks for that

No surprises here, it merely gives the outline of arrangements that will apply in all cases of transfer in/out of the new scheme, for example if someone joins having previously amassed pension benefits with a previous employer. Whether it tells us anything specific about in-service transfer from the current AFPS to the new one rather depends on the content of the tables refered to, but as yet unpublished. I doubt that the final details have yet been worked out.

Regards