Two up

[Hireandhire]

As a train of thought from the "how many elephants can you fit in a 172......"thread, some more modest advice please. And forgive me if some previous thread has done this to death.

I'm nervously contemplating taking the plunge from club rental into a modest share of a PFA type or similar lower cost aviating, based broadly in the West Midlands ( see my recent ad in "thehangar.co uk").

What will best do the job of lifting at least two fullsize adults (allright two 200 LB adults) at 80/90KTS cruise, for 2 hours plus reserves? Electric start would seem sensible too.

I'm not sure if a J3 Cub will do it for me, do the Piels and Jodels with 90hp plus deliver the performance?

What's the creative solution here, bearing in mind that even if it exists, I've still got to track a share down........?

All advice very welcome!

regards

[FlyingForFun]

Welcome to PPRuNe!

Not sure about a J3, but if that's the type of thing you're looking for I'm pretty sure a PA18 will do the trick.

The Europa will also take 2 plus fuel for a reasonable distance, in many cases quite a bit faster than 90kts, and at a considerably lower cost than a Cub (although probably not quite as much fun).

FFF
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[Flyin'Dutch']

Try them for size!

J3 will not cruise at the desired speed and you will not get any comfort with that built (of pilot pax) in those seats nor will you get the endurance. PA18 is what you need if you want something to get the performance.

2 seat Jodels as narrow and will be a squeeze, lovely to fly they are.

FD

[Fly Stimulator]

At 200lb though one might be approaching the point were getting into a Europa becomes an irreversible step! :ooh:

[FlyingForFun]

Not true, Fly. I'm about 190lbs, and can get in and out without any problems. Now, if only I could fly it without any problems ;)

FFF
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[Mike Cross]

Try a Luscombe
http://michael.cross20.users.btopenworld.com/images/webimages/gbtch.jpg
MAUW 1400 lb, empty weight around 850 lb fuel capacity 30 usg cruise around 85 kt at 5.5 usg/hr.

This is the model 8E, all metal, no fabric. 85 hp Continental.

My share cost me £4k (quarter share). £45b per month plus £27.50ph wet.

See how the Parsimonious Old Gits Flying Club do it on the cheap in the next issue of FLYER.:}

Mike

[Flap40]

Jodel D150 (if you can find one!)

2 x 200lb pilot/pax
40lbs baggage
4hrs plus 45 mins reserve @ 100kts

or, if you have a strong bladder, 200lb pilot, 115lbs baggage and 10hrs endurance to dry tanks!!!

[scottish_ppl]

An Emeraude would meet your specification pretty much bang on. Also a nice wide cabin and airy bubble canopy, so shouldnt be a squeeze to get in. Available on a PFA permit as well..:ok:

[Crossedcontrols]

If you want it on a permit (PFA) then it will be the PA18 95, or L18c it has the wonderfull Continental 90HP( like most of the other oldies), no flaps, will take 400 lbs of bodies, plus 200 Lbs of fuel/ baggage etc. Quite a bit more expensive than the others, but just as cheap to maintain and run, but must be hangared. You're probably looking at 22 to 25K to buy, and most will be hand swung, which adds to the charm IMHO.

CC

[Miserlou]

Sounds like a job for a Jodel 1050. It's a 2+2 so there will be space for the kids when they enter the picture!

[PPRuNe Towers]

Dear Marge,

I admit it - there was a wild flirtation with a Piel Emeraude at Barton a few years ago. There were any number of teasing encounters with Husky's and Citabria's and others I've almost forgotten during layovers in the States. Then there was the Aeronca Cheif but it didn't work out.

Again and again I've turned to that great love of PFAer's - the Jodel. I'm on partnership number four with one of these long legged lightweights. The first time I was lured into it by a shy retiring creature called Peter underhill back in 1977:ok: :ok: I'll never forgive him or Pete Godwin for checking me out.

A 117 (G-AYGA), a 112(G-Bezz), 1050 G-AYEH and now a 120 Paris Nice (G-BFOP)

Do you think I might have a problem???

Regards
Rob - Serial French Lover

[Aerobatic Flyer]

Marge'll forgive a love affair with Jodels, I'm sure! ;)

I had a lot of fun with a 113 (100hp version of the 112), a 119, and my all-time favourite - the 140. The 113 unfortunately ended up upside down in a snowdrift.... but it should be back in the air soon.

There's a 112 for sale in France for 9500 Euros, with lots of time left on its engine. I've never tried the 112 - I was always a bit put off by the thought of only 65hp. What's it like?

The one I'd like to try is the modified 1050 with a 160hp engine. There are a few of those around in France, but their owners guard them very jealously.

[PPRuNe Towers]

Honestly never had a problem with the 112. Operated it year round from the soft green sward of Barton:E :E :E

Very basic engine (retired GPU i think) so no mixture, genny and therefore no starter. Totally reliable in my time with the group - a far as I know she's still pottering around up there. That said the aircraft rattled around Europe with elegance, a chart and a toothbrush.

Total structural simplicity but the undercarriage geometry is set up for grass. Operated the 117 off tarmac (Speke) initially and tyre wear wasn't fun due to the immense taxi distances. You might say forklift truck tyres did the job at a tenth of the price but I couldn't possibly commment:hmm: :hmm: :hmm:

So - it's a hand propper, your nav and comms work on a battery whether on board or integral, it prefers grass and, obviously, it is deserving of hangarage.

An aircraft for cheaply experiencing the joy of flight from strips without big bills or guilt/coronaries when refueling. If you know Jodels you know the websites, parts suppliers and the legion of PFA inspectors well versed in them. Highly recommended. As to the 160 horsepower jobby I'm sure it would give me a nosebleed - totally unnatural if you ask me:} :} I'm still feeling guilty at having electric start on the D120! Jeez I'm getting soft.

Rob

[Hireandhire]

Guys (and if applicable Dolls) hi
Many thanks for letting me draw on the collective experience.

I’m grateful for the help seeing my way through this, and my thoughts are starting to crystallise now. These are all attractive designs, optimised differently. The Europa tends to be a bit too new (pronounced expensive) just yet, but each of the other four is a pleasure to contemplate.

To some extent it will depend on what is available; shares North of Watford seem to come up much less often than in the South, let alone one within sensible distance of home.

Thanks again for the patience of the replies – a tribute to pprune.

Happy landings to all – and if you see a bright light over Shropshire it will be the grin when I finally sort this opportunity out and go flying in my own (shared) aircraft!

[tonyhalsall]

You could always try one of the Kitfox or Rans models.

Price (as usual) is dependant on fit and engine, but Rotax 503's can be had for £10K, 582's for around £15K and four stroke versions for around £18-£20K.

You can get taildragger or nosewheel with the RANS and both RANS and KITFOX can be operated 'cheaply' (as if any flying is cheap)