View Full Version : BA and Airbus Orders

2nd Dec 2001, 19:47
Just wondering, has anyone heard whether or not BA has delayed or cancelled any of their orders? :) :)

2nd Dec 2001, 22:46
The Heathrow A319's have all been delivered roughly on schedule. I think that there are about 21 at LHR.
First A320 with IAE engines due in Jan 2002.
Nobody seems to know about the A318's!

3rd Dec 2001, 11:02
The 318 was for the regions. The regions are to be no more. So the 318 is also no more.


Kerosene Kraut
3rd Dec 2001, 12:20
Isn't there another big BA Regional-Jet order in the pipeline together with Qantas for something sized like Embraer's 170 as well? Like around 100 a/c total. (pre 9-11 figure) Any news on that please?

3rd Dec 2001, 13:47
Well I guess there's one manufacturer out of the running now anyway...pity as it would have kept the line at Woodford going for years (and kept a lot of British workers in jobs)

3rd Dec 2001, 16:32
Indeed Wycombe,

There were rumours of a mass RJX operation - mainly at LGW - although discussions allegedly didn't go far and that was pre Sept. 11th.

The best of luck to all affected by the loss of the RJ/X programme.


3rd Dec 2001, 18:56
As far as I know, the BA/QF regional jet order is on hold. I suspect the decision not to go ahead with the order at this time may well have been the straw that broke the RJX's back (not to say that the RJX would have won). Embraer is obviously very keen for this order. The 86-seat Embraer 175 variant they launched recently seems tailor-made for BA's requested specs.

Dashman 8
4th Dec 2001, 01:04
Whilst the actual ordering of the newer and larger jet for CitiExpress seems to be on hold, it seems that there is still work going on in the background. One of the ex-Brymon Embraer boys, in fact previously the fleet technical manager or some such has been appointed with a grand title I can't remember. His job description however was to look at, evaluate and introduce the new type. Gossip we've heard around the bases is that the Embraer 170/190 seem to be the favoured option but we'll be the last to hear the final result! :confused:

4th Dec 2001, 02:41
Believe they have to give six months notice to cancel deliveries/orders/options economically so that would mean accepting everything scheduled for delivery up to end of March 02.

Could be wrong though. :confused:

4th Dec 2001, 20:44
According to Flight, BA is trying to push back delivery of the A318, but as yet hasn't cancelled them.

casual observer
4th Dec 2001, 23:02
I have heard from a few sources, the A318 certification is likely to be delayed. Whether BA wants to defer the A318 order or not, BA will likely receive the A318 later than originally anticipated.

Sick Squid
5th Dec 2001, 02:42
From a line pilots perspective... the 318 has always had the smell of having been agreed to in a weak moment. Plenty of cheap and cheerful equipment was already in place to fly any regional operation, so methinks there was some back-door Airbus-led discounts given to get the mini-minibus on the marketplace.

What BA really need is a medium-high density 757 replacement (assuming you accept the argument that he 757 has to go... read into that what you will) in other words, a few 321's to cover the shuttle routes at peak times and the high yield European stuff, which we are still doing very well on, despite the bad-mouthing in here and elsewhere.

There were strong rumours flying around about some deferred GB 321's coming the mainline way recently, but nothing concrete.


casual observer
5th Dec 2001, 06:47
When you have an airframer (Airbus) who wants to beat its competitor (Boeing) in every front, and an engine company (P&W) who is (was) desperately trying to revive its commercial operation, this is the perfect scenario for airlines to bargain for the best possible price.

The only merit I see the A318 has over other 100 seaters is its commonality with the larger A320 family members (but the B737-600 has the same advantage). Other than that, it's a very uneconomical, over-engineered 100 seaters. P&W was foolish to be pulled into this project. They ended up with an engine that won't have much a future. Worst of all, Airbus sold them out at the end. Not only did Airbus offer the CFM engine on the A318 at Air France's insistence, Airbus also refused to consider the PW8000 for the A320 family around 2005 time frame.

However, for airlines like BA, Frontier, Air China, etc., probably got the best deals one could possibly get under the sun. I am afraid they will get what they have paid for. That is, not a very good plane and not a very good engine. The PW6000 could very well be the last commercial engine P&W will build under its own name.

The Baron
5th Dec 2001, 07:37
I was interested to read that the Embraer is the supposed favourite for the regional order. We in Oz have been told the program is on hold for 3 months. Management's last update to troops was thus: Equal 1st Do 728/928, Embaer 190/195, Distant 3rd RJX family. According to Tech Pilot assigned to program,
the Dornier was the better aeroplane but expensive, Embraer not bad, but built to a price and needing some improvement. :)

5th Dec 2001, 13:02
Don't be too surprised if an attempt is made to use the GB 321s on the UK domestics - with GB operating them.

Just wait till the present strategic review is complete.

5th Dec 2001, 15:11
Quite so...V Bad news indeed. Hey BALPA where's our scope clause????

6th Dec 2001, 14:39
I can't believe that. If that was the intention, it would have been done with CityFlyer, rather than "merging" them with EOG.