Private travel as Extra Crew

[goranb]

Pre 9/11 we had a system where a Head Flt Ops would sign an "Extra Crew" form for pilots or cabin crew so that one could travel without purchasing a ticket. People living out of base had a permanent one so they could commute. It was also authority to use jump seat if the flight is full. However it was canceled by upper management on security concerns. Now we are trying to put a similar procedures back in force. I guess other companies have some kind of procedure in force and wonder if anyone would share it with me. I'm not interested in security sensitive matters, just how you do that so people don’t have problem with airport and airline security people.

[FlyingIrishman]

At Ryanair only pilots in uniform can travel without a ticket when not on duty and the jumpseat is requested through Flt Ops who then let the handling agent know.

[Xtra Crew]

Here in Spain it is very usual to travel as Xtra Crew.
This is valid for any crew member (both cockpit & cabin).
You just show up at the gate and tell ground staff that you want to travel on that flight as Xtra Crew. They will ask which airline you work for and if you are cockpit or cabin crew. They will pass this info to the Cptn as he is the one who will authorise you to fly as Xtra Crew. If the flight is full they often take you on a jumpseat.
The only documents you need are your company Id. and your flying license.

Iberia usually just accepts pilots flying as Xtra Crew.
The rest of spanish airlines take both cabin and cockpit Crew.

Normally the captain only accepts crew members flying for spanish airlines, as foreign airlines do not reciprocate on this.

[A and C]

Please can we have this sort of common sence in the UK.

At the moment in the UK the security powers that be have decreed that as soon as I go off duty I am a security risk and cannot sit in the flight deck despite the fact that an hour before I was the captain of the very same aircraft.

The security industry in the UK is a tail that is wagging the dog and is starting to have an adverce effect on flight safety.

[Nightrider]

A and C...to just add to this, not only are you a security risk after duty, at some BAA places you are the highest risk for a flight when trying to gain access to your flying office.
While it is most appreciated that security has improved, the attitude of a lot of so-called security stuff is still well below any acceptable level.

[atr42500]

WELL DONE THE SPANISH

It makes things so easier sometimes to be able to get on the flight and being check in as an extra crew member .

But here in Ireland it doesn t look it works like this.
Just a little story

Two crew members from RE based in ORK finished theire duty in DUB and wanted to position back home ,
the next compagny flight was 6 hours away , an EI flight was 30 mn away but both crew have been refused on board not having a valid ticket .

So they finally got back home on a french charter airline which was positioning to cork. Thanks a lot AIr Mediterrané
:ok:

EI Crew member, Don t forget to get a valid ticket to position after the 26 th october;)

[airship]

I was under the impression that jump seats were now reserved for security and/or flight crew inspections?!

[goranb]

Xtra, this sounds like a good sistem.
Asking a Captain for jump seat is OK when flight is full, however If seats are available in cabin, I would like to be able to travel without need to ask a Captain.
My bigger problem is security ground staff. Sometimes thay make a problem if I go to Duty Free as operating crew (i.e. FRA). UK can be a problem as well.
Let's say you go to London for a week. Coming in shouldn't be a problem. You can even put yourself on a GenDec so they might not ask you for visa (if you need one). Coming back them might not let you in because you don't have a ticket and you are not operating crew. I'm not sure if GenDec or something else would help, and thats why I've started this t topic.
There also cand be difference between intra EU flights and coming from 3rd world.

[Thrush]

The pathetic system in the UK needs looking at. All Staff Travel has, for the most part, been eroded away and it's more or less impossible to get on without a valid full ticket any more. If you were on a staff ticket (sub load) you could usually get the jump seat if the a/c was full.

No longer.

The Departmet for Transport and CAA (should be the Department against Transport) have decreed, with a huge knee-jerk, that we cannot use any jump seats.

The situation is crazy.

I cannot even take my old Dad for a jump seat ride before he pegs out. In fact I am prevented from taking anyone who I've knon and trusted for years, but can take a CAA Inspector or security official, who I don't know from Adam, BUT they must get my permission.

No chance. I've withheld all permissions for these idiots till the situation is resolved.

I suggest others do the same!

Let's get it sorted out sensibly!!

VIVA THE SPANISH SYSTEM !!!


BAN ALL BUREAUCRATS FROM THE FLIGHT DECK UFN!!

[A and C]

I very reluctently have to agree with thrush in his post above untill common sence returns we must play the system by its own rules and use it to obstruct the burocrats.

What you have to remember is that the security industry is milking us for all they can and the more stupid rules that they can invent the more money they can screw out of the airlines.

The goverment cant stop this because politicly it cant be seen to be "weak" on security by the press who are no doubt put up to some of the stunts we have seen by the people who have the most to make from the security thing.

[411A]

Dunno about the UK (or others that are regulated by JAA), but in the USA, the regulations state that an FAA inspector shall have a seat available for his use on the flight deck, and must be admitted to same for inspection purposes.

Yes, I suppose the Commander could refuse, but would certainly have to have a valid reason.

To twist the tigers tail ain't a good idea.

Having said this, have on one occasion asked an FAA inspector to leave, when I caught him playing 'round with the landing gear lock lever (DC-3, many years ago).
Never saw him again.

[morroccomole]

Why don't you tight gits just buy a ticket? That way you would be guaranteed a seat. Just because you work as flight crew for an airline, why should they or any other carry you when off duty FOC? Doesn't work for any back office staff, and shouldn't work for you either!

[A and C]

What you have to remember is that in a lot of the smaller airlines flying staff have there bases changed at short notice and that they might find there home at the other side of a continent from the place that they report for work.

If the CAA permitted it ALL airline staff with a valid ID would be welcome on the flight deck of an aircraft that I was in command of.

The big problem is that the powers that be wont let me because they dont trust the ID screening system that they have put in place .

The security tail is wagging the dog and putting flight safety at risk but more of that latter.

[Tinstaafl]

What ******s my imagination is how any of these 'security' d!ckheads :mad: can maintain that a vetted extra body on the flight deck is less secure than having fewer able bodies in the way in during a break-in? :rolleyes:

[battraveller]

Do the Spanish allow pilots from anywhere to go as extra crew?

What about pilots from North America? Would they be able to ride as well?

[Critical Mach#]

battraveller:

Some of us do, some of us don´t. It is at captain´s discretion.

Some of us do accept crews from non Spanish airlines just because you are an airline crew and that is enough to grant you a seat on the plane.

Some of us don´t accept foreign crews based on the fact that crews in Non Spanish airlines do not act the same way we do.
We have fought to have command over this for years no matter what DGAC, CAA, FAA and company executives wanted and many believe that if you do not fight to have this in your outfits then you do not deserve the right to benefit from it when you want to travel first class in Spain.

Morroccomole:

People from other walks of life benefit from freebies in their respective jobs. To make things worst, it is a well known fact that airlines offer ID tickets to travel agents, cattering companies, newspaper agents and many other not exactly related to aviation. Therefore, why shouldn´t I be able to claim for the right to fly FOC?

Regards
CM

[Thrush]

A and C,

Well said.

The situation is total nonsense at the moment.

It would be so much easier, and indeed cost effective, if crews who were flying from somewhere other than their main base could use their IDs to get on an aircraft with spare seats, or the jump seat if it was full.

My lot spend a fortune deadheading crews around.

What the politicians and authorities don't seem to realise is that none of us wants a gun or knife at our head, so e ould not do anything risky. Especially after 11th Sept. If you have ever had a gun at your head, you'll know what I mean.

Thrush, the irritating c.......

[Holdposition]

Don’ all laugh at once:) flying Man/BJL (TCX) next week, can anyone please tell me has there been any movement at all re SLF being allowed flight deck/jumpseat request, not company but mere PPL with security clearance re national carrier. Did hear that some companies were relaxing rules a little and leaving final say with captain or am I wasting the ink in the printer:), thanks

[GlueBall]

Company flight crew and dispatchers, in uniform or out of uniform, may travel to anywhere at anytime on the jump seats.

Employed flight crew and dispatchers of other FAA Part 121 carriers with reciprocal agreements may jump seat with approval of Flight Control. Valid passport, company I.D. and airman certificate are required. Wearing of uniform isn't required.

[flying jocks]

I live in Spain and have enjoyed the benefits of flying as extra crew all around Spain and abroad. Iberia, Spanair and Air Europa are all accustomed to dead heading and it is a system which works well providing that it is not abused. Although I am a current and commercial pilot, unless you work for an actual airline, Iberia is getting tough on letting non-airline personnel onboard and on occasions it has not been easy getting home:*

[xabi200]

Hi guys,

The benefits of travelling extra crew with spanish airline is quite controversial.
The two main problems are that most of foreign airline don't do the same so it is quite unfair as there is no reciprocity and people are afraid that if they spread the word on how to do it, then there will be too many people taking benefit of it thus the privilege may end.

But what they do in heathrow is that the ground personel ask by radio the captain on behalf of the guy wanting to travel as extra crew, after having showed licence, passport and company card.
If the captain agrees, then they issue a written boarding pass to go thru security.

Every single airline crews should fight with their company, so all of us pilot can benefit from it.

Cheers

[ADFS]

I hear that at EASY, not even their own flight crew members are allowed to take the jumpseat, let alone have access to the cockpit when off duty, even with a ticket!
Far beyond my comprehension....
When I am being positioned or travelling privately, out of uniform, I always tell the Cabin Chief I am available to help if needed just as would be expected dressed in work suit and extra-crewing.
Spanish pilots have been known to turn down jumpseaters so it´s not always a free ride, but the Captain has the final say, and most do what they can and thats always more human than a flat out NO, specially when one day our extra help could be of very important use. The reciprocal issue should be addressed but it will not be addressed, count on that. Terrorism has created the end of good will. Luckily, in Spain, we still have it. Are the other EEC airlines willing to restore it ?

[Fokkerdriver]

Hey Battraveller!!

Do you mean nationality or working for a North American company??

Usually they only take people working for Spanish companies, but it all depends on the mood of the captain I guess.

Heard about a guy from KLM hitching a ride though once, but usually it works both ways. If you can jumpseat on their flights.....they should also be able to jumpseat on yours.

Fair is fair ;)

[fiftyfour]

It is a big problem when the Department of Transport makes all the rules and backs them up with legislation. It is now an empire, which is expanding to give them more control, more importance and more jobs.
Remember, that these were the guys that actively pushed the advice that if a hijacker started making demands, you let him do the thinking and you follow as best you can, in an attempt to calm the situation.
The new doors we have, and the door procedures are great for security. But the idea that you can't safely carry off-duty colleagues on the flight deck ( but you can when they are on duty) is a joke.

[flying jocks]

Has anybody had luck travelling as extra crew on Air France or Alitalia? Both these countries tend to be more chilled out than governing bodies in the UK who appear to be rigid and over reactionary to the 'terrorist threat':hmm:

[BOBBLEHAT]

Just adding another factor into the mix.....

As valid ATCO's in the UK, most airlines provided a famil system pre 9-11. This has all but finished now due to the security rules currently being experienced, this is despite all ATCO's employed by NATS requiring home office security clearance as a pre-requisite of employment.

Unofficial visits were also enjoyed and it gave us an opportunity to talk to the customers properly instead of barking out instructions ten to the dozen.

I know that most of my colleagues will agree that we have lost an invaluable source of feedback and enquiries that looks unlikely to return.

My thanks to those who may have entertained our intrusions in the past.

[racasanman]

Tinstaafil.Well said ,because you are off duty you are a serious security threat if you sit in the jump seat even though you have been vetted by a government department,However ,Joe public sat on the other side of the cockpit door is not a threat even though they could be anybody.Maybe its time to vet every passenger before we sell them a ticket.