Flying with a gun on board

[Monocock]

Having just visited Jet Blast and reading a thread there, I wondered if anyone can shed any light on the following.

With the shooting season underway, what are the laws regarding carrying a shot gun in the aircraft? Cartridges (ammunition) obviously have to travel also and they are always boxed up and not loose.

I have been doing this for several years but wondered if it might be in any way illegal or if there are certain regulations that should be adhered to.

Surely when travelling up to Yorkshire/Scotland for a good weekends pheasant popping it must be safer to carry a gun in an aircraft for 2 hours as opposed to the boot of a car for 5 hours (with the associated risks of theft at motorway services etc).

Any constructive ideas would be very welcome.

[wher2guv]

Carriage of Weapons and Munitions of War (ANO article 59)

No weapon may be carried on boardan aircraft unless:-
the consent of the operator is obtained.
the weapon is unloaded.
the weapon is carried in a part of the aircraft not accessible to pax

Munitions of war (including weapons, ammunition, explosives or noxious substances) shall not be carried without the written permission of the CAA and then only in accordance with any conditions relating thereto.

hope it helps

[stiknruda]

Ah Monocock - I have been doing it regularly for years, too!

My William Evans,slip, wellies, hip flask and cartridge bag will all fit nicely into the Pitts!

I must confess that the legality of it never crossed my mind as I see it is exactly the same as throwing them in the boot of the car.

Cock birds only!


Stik

[FlyingForFun]

Can any of our Canadian friends (or anyone else for that matter) confirm or deny the anecdotal story that I heard a while back, that pilots flying over certain parts of Canada are required to carry a gun for survival purposes in case they have to carry out a forced landing in unhospitable terrain?

Thanks!

FFF
----------------

[ToryBoy]

If you need a gun to protect yourself when flying in Canada I wonder what would be the best thing to carry when flying over places such as Essex?

:}

[G SXTY]

I resent that remark - Basildon looks perfectly safe from 2000'. :)

[Kolibear]

Its the ONLY time it looks safe!

[Circuit Basher]

FFF - having done my early student pilot training in Canada, I couldn't recall having seen that requirement. I did, however, remember that you had a certain minimimum survival equipment list when flying in specified remote areas. I also remembered that it was forbidden to fly low over herds of elk / caribou, but couldn't remember if moose (or is the plural meese??!! ;) :D) were also verboten.

Looking at the Transport Canada regulations (http://www.tc.gc.ca/aviation/REGSERV/CARAC/CARS/cars/602e.htm#602_61) , it say the following regarding survival equipment:
602.61 (1) Subject to subsection (2), no person shall operate an aircraft over land unless there is carried on board survival equipment, sufficient for the survival on the ground of each person on board, given the geographical area, the season of the year and anticipated seasonal climatic variations, that provides the means for
(a) starting a fire;
(b) providing shelter;
(c) providing or purifying water; and
(d) visually signalling distress.

Have spent some time trying to find the regulations regarding overflight of herds of caribou / elk but haven't found it yet.

[Spikeee]

Use a flare gun.

It is more likely to be seen as survival equipment and possibly more fun for hunting with.

[FlyingForFun]

Thanks, Circuit Basher.

I've never heard of a rule about having to be able to start a fire before - it certainly makes sense, but I guess it's unusual enough (to those of us who live and fly in boring countries where white stilletos really are the worse thing we can imagine!) that, with a bit of Chinese Whispers, it could turn into the story that I'd heard!

FFF
-------------

[Hen Ddraig]

CB Try,
AIP-RAC 1.15.3 Reindeer,Caribou,Moose, & Muskoxen Conservation

There is actually a question on this topic in the PSTAR exam.

There is also a question regarding what is identified by Chrome yellow and black strips painted on pylons or on the roof of a building

Time to spare. Go by air

Hen Ddraig

[englishal]

I found a bit in the regs when trawling through looking up the rules for ferry flights, which states that you are ALLOWED to carry a gun, BUT must get a canadian permit, and it was quite specific on the type of gun...ie. Non automatic bolt action rifle or something.....No MP5's, or uzis I'm afraid :D

Can't find the reference now, but its somewhere in cyberspace....

EA

[Thirty06]

Ah! found it.

J. Pratt Air Law Operational Procedures Communications LAW131-132

Carriage of weapons and munitins of war:

.... or sporting weapon... not accesible to passengers and must be unloaded.

<presumably a 'Keep Out' sign woulf be okay in the back of a Cessna>

Carriage of dangerous goods:

. The carriage of securely boxed sporting cartridges is allowed; up to 5kg per person.

Sounds quite a lot of cartridges to me.

30.06

Basildon safe from 200ft ? vertically maybe.


Carriage of dangerous goods.

[niknak]

How about adopting common sense?

Any licencensed fire arm certificate holder will know the restrictions that apply when carrying weapons from A to B in their car, much the same applies when going by air.

If it's your own aeroplane, be discreet, inform the aerodrome authority in advance, and transport it in it's proper carrying case.

If you've chartered the aeroplane, then you are legally obliged to inform the operator when you make the booking, they will take appropriate steps to comply with the law.

We get shooting parties into our place on a regular basis, and aside from a few sore arses on return flights, as a result of mis directed lead pellets on the grouse moors, we never have a problem.

[Monocock]

NikNak

I always adopt "Common Sense".

There is a huge difference between "Fire Arms" and "Shot Guns".

I think you have perhaps missed my point.

[A and C]

God help you if you divert into a UK airport , as A crew member at one airport they would not let me in with the small screwdriver that is required to drop the sticks to check the fuel.

If "security" is so tight that I cant check the fuel on the aircraft with a smal screwdriver the reaction to you having a shotgun can only be left to the emagination .

I should have the flying lawyers phone number with you at all times if you divert you will need it to get out of jail.

[S-Works]

The CAA tell me there is no restriction on the carriage of a firearm or a shotgun in a private aircraft in the UK. You have to observe the same rules for transport of the weapon with regard to security the same as for transport in your car. It is the transport if ammunition that is of more note as that comes under the transportation of dangerous goods clause.

In the event of a crash and fire I would not want to add to the problem of a fire with live ammunition!

I regularily fly to shoots and carry my shotgun and occassionally rifle. I have landed at big airports and disembarked with weapons without problem. I never carry ammunition, prefering to save the weight and get it locally or get someone on the shoot to buy it for me.

I have also taken my shotgun to Spain on a commercial flight on a number of occassions without problem. This just requires the correct paperwork to be in place and the weapon to be secured correctly.

[Circuit Basher]

Hen Ddraig - Sorry about delay in responding - had a busy weekend!

I remembered sitting the PSTAR exam and answering the question, but did a search through the various sections of the Transport Canada regs where I expected to find the details of the rules, but couldn't spot it.