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View Full Version : TWA 800 Breakup at 1231.12, prior to the Explosion at 1231.20!


wsherif1
7th Oct 2003, 06:30
At the time of the initial wake turbulence encounter at 1231.12, (the NTSB's, "End of Data Line"), the following instantaneous transitions occurred.

Aircraft heading from 80 degrees to 200 degrees.
Airspeed 300k-100k-300k.
Rudder 5 degress right, through zero, to 5 degrees left to zero.
Roll zero to 28 degrees back to zero.
Pitch +2 degrees to +8 degrees back to +2 degrees.
Angle of attack 3 degrees to 15 degrees back to 3 degrees.
Elevator zero to -5, back to zero.

These readings were taken directly off the enlarged FDR Chart. All of this data was removed, by the NTSB, when they modified and re-dated the original chart!

On page 46, of the report, The Figure 5-1, shows the 13.5 foot section of the aircraft's keel beam, which was torn from the aircraft and was found in the initial debris area. There was no evidence of sooting, fire, or explosive damage!!!

The FDR and both clocks, in the cockpit, stopped 8 seconds after the initial encounter, at 2031.20, the actual time of the explosion!


Cheers

WS

ETOPS773
7th Oct 2003, 07:34
Okay..you have my attention...

Aircraft heading from 80 degrees to 200 degrees.
Airspeed 300k-100k-300k.

That is one heck of a decelleration and change of course for wake turbulence encounter. Weren`t they quite high up at the point of the incident?

My point being, I`d assume you would have to be close to something very large or very fast to be tumbled about like that :8

wsherif1
7th Oct 2003, 09:20
ETOPS773


The 747 was hit broadside, by the turbulence. The airmass was completley stable and the ocean surface was as calm as a mill pond, so there was little or no dispersion of the turbulence energy. I am not sure the aircraft actually decelerated to the extent indicated, but that the rapid change in heading affected the pitot-static system and created a lower pressure at the sensing heads, momentarily.

When you tear out a 13.5 foot section of the aircraft's keel beam and it falls out of the aircraft into the initial debris area there is no question of the force involved. With the massive structure of a 747 there is a considerable inertia factor, which precludes much acceleration in motion and therefore a high percentage of the kinetic energy is absorbed in the structure.

Cheers

WS

kabz
8th Oct 2003, 01:11
So what caused that upset then ?

RatherBeFlying
8th Oct 2003, 02:25
Wsherif1,

What is instantaneous? There has to be some interval, even if a fraction of a second.

A structural breakup will disrupt control runs, sensors and data channels and distort signals to the FDR.

If the IRS sensors are in a part of the a/c that is breaking off, the 3 axes will show movement different from the rest of the a/c.

wsherif1
8th Oct 2003, 03:09
Kabz

There was no upset. The structure broke apart due to the force of the turbulence striking the aircraft broadside and turning it around its vertical axis, from a heading of 80 degrees to 200 degrees within less than two seconds!

WS

RatherBeFlying


Your comment,

"What is instantaneous? There has to be some interval, even if a fraction of a second."

The change in the aircraft's heading from 80 to 200 degrees occurred in less than two seconds, as indicated on the FDR Chart's timeline.

WS

aviate1138
8th Oct 2003, 04:04
wsherif1 said .....

These readings were taken directly off the enlarged FDR Chart. All of this data was removed, by the NTSB, when they modified and re-dated the original chart!

aviate1138 says...

Why? What do they have to gain?
Are you an X-File Conspiracy Theorist?

By the way a low pressure explosion caused by fumes at high temps will probably not produce charring or anything other than distort the structure enough to cause catastrophic structural failure at the speed it was travelling.

Aviate1138

wsherif1
8th Oct 2003, 04:48
Aviate1138

Your comments,

"Why? What do they have to gain?
Are you an X-File Conspiracy Theorist?"

"By the way a low pressure explosion caused by fumes at high temps will probably not produce charring or anything other than distort the structure enough to cause catastrophic structural failure at the speed it was travelling."

The NTSB has covered up data in other investigations, e.g. United 585 over Colorado Springs. They never included the ATC controller's sworn statements describing what actually caused the acident, in the final report!

The NTSB will do whatever is required to avoid alarming the flying public. However when History is ignored it will be repeated. If the real cause of the TWA accident had been revealed it's possible AA 587 at JFK might have been avoided!

No!

There was no explosion at 2031.12. The FDR continued to record after 2031.12, the time of the initial structural break-up, until 2031.20 when the FDR and the two clocks, in the cockpit, stopped at the time of the explosion.

Cheers,

WS

NotsoFantastic

Your comment,


"Seems to me this is probably sadly consistent with an explosion breaking the structure up."

There was no explosion at the time of the initial structural breakup at 2031.12! The FDR continued to record data until 2031.20, at which time the FDR and the two clocks, in the cockpit, stopped at the time of the actual explosion.


WS

av8boy
8th Oct 2003, 07:36
Is it correct that this flight, and Swissair at Halifax and the Egyptair flight all took off at 8.00 pm on a Wednesday night and all routed via Bette, or is that an internet myth?Could be wrong, but I believe:


TWA 800 departed JFK 2019 local time on a Wednesday on the Bette SID


SR 111 departed JFK at 2014 local time on a Wednesday on the Bette SID


EgyptAir 990 departed JFK 0120 local time on a Sunday NOT routing over Bette (Kennedy SID)

Dave