St Mawgan - Dont go!

[Davidt]

Thought I'd go for a £100 pasty last week, didnt recon on a £38 landing fee.

What a rip off.

I wish these places would just publish their hostility to GA so that we can stay away!

[dublinpilot]

Why don't you just ask when you ring for prior permission?

Or am I missing something?

[vanhigher]

when you think about how much it cost you to fly there, £38 landing fee in the overall scheme of things is nothing to get worked up about

[BEagle]

Yes it damn well is. It's an utter rip-off. As a taxpayer you should be entitled to use government aerodromes, subject to having appropriate insurance. The upkeep of the aerodrome is paid for by the taxpayer, i.e. you. This is just anothet typical case of a bankrupt MoD attempting to squeeze money out of its shareholders - the taxpayers.

[niknak]

Please correct me if I' wrong, but I thought that the civilian operations at St Mog' were run by an independant operator, I thought that the MOD staff only handle and charge for military operations.

Allegedly, the civilian airport operator have made such a bollo*cks of it that even British Airways have pulled out, leaving the only regular commercial flights being the twice a day Ryanair service from EGSS, (who, I understand pay something like £100 per landing <in a B737:ooh: >, and £10 or less per passenger, under the terms of their contract with the civilian operator).

Consequently the airport is under serious threat of closure when the MOD withdraw completely in Jan 2005.
The civilian side of the airport is losing something like £500,000 per year, and they're asking the ratepayers of Cornwall to cover that on their council tax bills - not suprisingly, the answer is a resounding "sod off".

Where an MOD airfield is available to civilian operators, I see no reason why each flight (emergencies and weather diversions excepted), shouldn't be charged the full costs for providing MOD staff to handle it - that said, my experience with the many MOD airfields I've been to has always been that the fees are very reasonable, and the service provided is absolutely spot on.

Where a civilian handling operator exists to handle such flights, it's up to them to pitch their fees accordingly - clearly £38 is a bit steep and St Mawgan seems to be the exception to the rule in providing very good value for money at MOD airfields.

[Man-on-the-fence]

Consequently the airport is under serious threat of closure when the MOD withdraw completely in Jan 2005

Are you suggesting that RAF StM is closing in 2005?

[Timothy]

Why got to St Mawgan (or Newquay Intergalactic Spaceport as the civilian side seems to be called these days) when Perranporth is just down the way, with three hard runways, totally GA friendly, desperate for your custom, cheap, cheerful, a good cause, historically interesting and pretty much everything else you would want (if you include the excellent catering that can be got in Perranporth village) ?

W

[niknak]

Man on the Fence - yes, the current plan is for St Mawgan, Lynham, and a few other MOD bases whose names escape me, to be put on a "care and maintenence" basis (i.e. closed to all and sundry) with effect from Jan 2005.
I agree with WC, Perranporth is the answer for G/A, although the local authority have completely ruled out any investment of ratepayers money to improve the facilities there.

[Timothy]

....not just won't fund it, but won't give planning permission.

I think the Cornish prefer decay to vibrancy and have the local government they deserve.

W

[Lurcher Man]

There is more to this than just an apparantly high landing fee.
I had a minor 'rant' on the Biz Jets & GA forum re the state of GA in the UK. It is all part of the same problem.
Cornwall, one of the least accessable parts of the UK in terms of road & rail should be crying out for improved links by air, and don't just mean subsidised flights by the likes of Ryanair.
If local government don't have the vision and can't/won't provide funding then pressure should be brought to bear on central gov to provide a more flexible integrated transport policy with GA recognised as playing a valuable role.
Dare I say it 'as in the USA'
Saying 'don't go to St Mawgan' will just help to fulfil the prophecy and lead to closure and the conversion of a valuable airfield to yet another industrial estate.

[Barnaby the Bear]

I have no sympathy if you are shocked by the prices. If you did you homework you would know the price before you went.
EGDG is not due to close in 2005. Lynham will in 2012.
St Mawgan is to be kept open.
There is very limited civilian operations at St Mawgan, so natrually handling and parking is going to be at a premium.

As has been previously mentioned, EGTP, EGLA, Truro and for people needing a licenced A/D EGHC are available. All GA friendly.

Sorry if that sounded a bit harsh but, stop moaning and just enjoy what is out there.:}

[tmmorris]

The RAF are under enormous pressure to make as much money as possible from MOD assets - e.g. golfers flying to Leuchars in their bizjets, and selling off places like Kirknewton and Newton which are only used by ATC cadets (sod the next generation!). At the very least they will have to operate on a cost-recovery basis, like the CAA. Now whether the costs are <i>reasonable</i> or whether the bureaucracy is pushing them up is a different question.

Tim

[Circuit Basher]

tmmorris - just felt I had to pull you up on one thing:.....selling off places like Kirknewton and Newton which are only used by ATC cadets.... - as I am one of the many volunteers that make up the staff at Kirknewton, I can assure you that it is alive and well and still part of Defence Estates!

What I would agree with is that the costs of maintaining any defence facility are weighed against:

Strategic importance
Criticality of location
Alternative facilities
Optimisation of revenue sources without jeapordising primary operations
etc

The bottom line is that we are encouraged to cooperate with other service users (including letting the Army drive 8 tonners across wet ground, ripping up the glider landing areas and destroying the peritracks :* :mad:, letting the local TA Signals Sqn have a 48 hr exercise on the airfield so that they can nick our telephone lines and check all personnel and vehicles entering and leaving the school, letting TA units have their basic training weekends on unused parts of the airfield so that they can be trained in the art of disguising oneself as a cabbage and making a noise that sounds like a castrated cat imitating an owl :D ;)). There is a fixed wing flying club with on-site hangarage, helicopters and microlights use the place as a training area during the week when we're not around with the gliders. An HGV training organisation use the airfield for driver training and testing during the week. We also host charity events such as a Ladies Driving Challenge and a stage of a 4WD off-road LandRover driving rally.

So, just like any commercial business, we have to diversify to survive.

[edited to insert some things I omitted to mention that we do]

[Timothy]

can be trained in the art of disguising oneself as a cabbage and making a noise that sounds like a castrated cat imitating an owl CARELESS TALK COSTS LIVES for goodness sake...

Please don't give away defence secrets on this public site.

W

[englishal]

Trouble is many airfields in the UK enter a self destructive cycle...ie. they charge a fortune to land, so people bitch and moan and don't go there. If an airfield has a good restaruant and charges a nominal landing fee, say 10 GBP, I'll fly there for lunch. They have then probably made 10 pounds from the landing plus 15 pounds from each of the PAX....makes sense doesn't it. Jersey is one of the best value GA places in my book.

I flew into Palm Springs International yesterday, the landing fee was $21, but they waived it becasue I took on 7 Gals of AVGAS. They lent me a car for free, they had free popcorn, coffee and "soda" and gave us a ride to and from the aircraft. The toilets even have mouthwash :D. Even if I had to pay the landing fee it was very good value for money.

Maybe we should start a list of the best GA "friendly" airfields in the UK and boycot the rip-off ones....

Cheers
EA:D

[Wee Weasley Welshman]

St Mawgan to close? Hadn't heard of that. What with that lovely new underground carpark and all...

It seems to me that the Cornwall tourist board/chamber of trade type organisation should be developing some kind of strategy regarding the areas aviation accessibility.

Lovely lovely part of the world thats a complete pain in the backside to get to. The Paddies have shown the way with their 738 STN service. The region would benefit economically from ensuring that St Mawgan or similar offers a cheap, reliable and quality service that encourages airlines to develop air links to the place. It is Cornwalls primary industry after all.

WWW

[Davidt]

To get back on some of the points made:
1) I did ask when booking PPR and was told £19 I kicked up a fuss at the time of being charged double and am taking it up in writing
2)Yes I am bitching, thats partly what these forums are for. But also I am informing fellow fun flyers that StM is no fun on the wallet. There have been many threads on rip off fees, had there been one sooner on St M I would not have bothered going.
3)Hear hear on Perranporth.Cheap friendly helpfull and a few miles down the road from StM. I went a few weeks ago and wanted to go somewhere different this time.
4)As to the future of StM. when I got there there was me + a PA28 - 4 BA staff, a whole stack of Serco staff there must have been firemen somewhere, bored girlie in the kiosk.Two hours later add a jetstream.It must have cost them a fortune to opperate that day.But it doesnt take a genius to work out that the way to make a profit is to encourage business not scare it away with overpricing.Would I be sad to lose another field to GA -no. So far as I'm concerned its lost anyway. Perranporth has my business.
5) Is local authority blind to the benefits of GA, of course read 100's of similar threads. I went to LTK on Sunday even with a major airshow taking place I was welcomed the landing fee was 15 euros.The place was packed with GA mostly brit.Aren't most small airport in France run by the Chamber of Commerce locally?Must be worth a fortune to the local economy.
6) £38 is a flea bite in the context of the overall cost of the day , thats no reason to condone a rip off.

What a shame we even have to discuss such topics.

To pick up on some of the points made:
1) I did check on booking ppr and was quoted £19. I did kick up a fuss on being charged double and have taken it up in writing.
2)Hear hear on Perranporth, went there a few weeks ago, cheap friendly welcoming amd where I will go when next in that part of the country.
3) yes I am bitching, isnt that what these forums are for, plus I'm telling the rest of UK GA what to expect at StM.
4)Facilities at a premium at StM. No way when I got there it was me and a PA28 plus 4 BA staff, 1/2 doz Serco staff, some bagage handles,a girlie at the ciggy kiosk,+ there must have been a fire crew somewhere. It must have cost a fortune to opperate that day. There was no handling marshalling or facilities offered for my £38. It doesnt take a genius to work out that to be a sucess you shouldnt chase business away.Perranporth was doing a roaring trade if radio traffic was anything to go by.
5) Do I care if StM is lost to GA no, its lost anyway so far as I,m concerned.
6)Are UK local authorities blind to the potential of GA yes. By contrast I went to L2K on Sunday even with a major airshow on i was made welcome, charged only 15 euros and the place was packed with GA mostly Brits.

[newswatcher]

see also - topical link (http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=103050&highlight=mawgan)