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Diesel Man
19th Aug 2001, 10:40
Need some ideas for suitable ballast for B717.
Empty aircraft usually needs 1000kg for crew training/ferry.
Have read the IATA recommendations but need "nigel" help to come up with a good product.
Around 25kg packs or some other system.
Anyone used water bladders???
Problem comes when ballast is needed to be moved back to base - has to travel subload due to weight.
Storage and tracking also a problem.
All suggestions appreciated.

ZK-NSJ
19th Aug 2001, 10:57
try bags of cement

Critical Mach#
19th Aug 2001, 11:42
DonŽt konw if it is allowed for B717...Try fuel ballast. 6000lbs used on MD83 for 2/0 crew on center tank. Works better than water and cement and you can fly on them if flight time exceeds fuel on board :D

Regards
CM

MasterGreen
19th Aug 2001, 12:57
Get your friendly garage to steam clean (inside and out) and, to be really flash - repaint, 5 good quality (as new as possible), 44 gal fuel drums. Fit new O rings / seals to the caps and you are in clover.

One of these filled with 200 litres of water is as near as damn it 220kg. 5 fit nicely on a standard pallet in a compact star and can be easily and securely lashed.

Load that in the appropriate hold space to trim. Empty weight for transportation around 100kgs for the 5 drums + pallet and strops.

This will not cost a fortune and correctly marked / painted they can be re-used as water ballest as often as you need. They do rust out eventually - but it takes a few years.

MG

Ozgrade3
20th Aug 2001, 11:55
It Impulse in Oz, we used to use those 20 litre drims that chemicals come in, usually Cholorine for pools, but filled with water. The handlse make convenient tiedown rings too.

Filled almost to the top with water, each one weighs 20 kg. When you donn't need them for ballast. Simply tip out the water on the ramp and they weigh next to nothing.

Easy....

StressFree
24th Aug 2001, 13:57
Diesel Man,
I used to fly two MD-87's that needed 1000kgs of ballast in the forward hold. We put in bags of small stones and secured them with cargo nets. We ran those planes for 8 years and never had a problem with the stones at all.

:cool:

Diesel Man
25th Aug 2001, 01:32
Thanks for the replies guys.
ZK-NSJ
Good "weight" idea but if stored outside could get wet and set and also "leakage" is a problem.
Critical Mach
Fuel works a little in the 717 but not enough. I've flown 83/87 as well and the foreward aux tank was ideal for ballast fuel but no such luxury in the short range 717.
Master Green
Good in principle but loading in and out would give the bag snatchers the woops plus a little too big for the aircraft I think.
Ozgrade 3
We're from the same area - I hear that you are now Ozgrade 2 - well done!! The water bottle idea is a good one but having trouble with bottles breaking lose and also leakage so trying to improve the system to make it Murphy proof. I often thought one of those roadside barriers put in empty, strapped down and filled with a big hose would work but the filling/emptying worries me a bit.
StressFree
Your idea may be the way to go and matches the IATA recommendations - what sort of material were the bags made of?? - hessian or something like that I guess.

Thanks again all - I'll let you know what we come up with and how it works.

Diesel Man

"Weather is here - wish you were beautiful"

Critical Mach#
26th Aug 2001, 02:06
DM

The Express branch of my outfit is operating B717. IŽll ask them how they work around the problem and let you know if they have come up with something usefull

Regards
CM