Horizon retrench 11 pilots

[wessex19]

just spoke to an old mate today who told me 11 metro pilots have been retrenched from Horizon. One Captain has been fired, 5 captains demoted to F/O and 10 F/O 's sent packing. Good luck to those involved.

[FL CH]

With the loss of 10 pilots, how would they maintain their RPT schedule?

[Afterburn]

Ive also been informed by that not only have crew been laid off or demoted but in the last few weeks the following management have also gone


The Chief Executive Officer

The QA/Safety Manager

Plus

The Product Development Manager

748 Flight Attendants

Remaining are the General Manager Trevor Douglas ex Skywest
who was reported to have been employed by the CEO who has now gone.

And yet to go may be a number of engineering staff:sad:

[tobzalp]

Anyone know why? And where do the 748s run Passengers? I though they were freighters.

[Sheep Guts]

QA Safety Manager for 748s hmmmmmmmmmm...
Product Development Manager.

When these new designer jobs are the first to go, one must wonder where they are heading. Sounds as though the Bean Counters are seeing the writing on the walls.

My ex Company here desized eliminating 1 fleet of Twotters and guess what the First Guy to go was the QA guy.

:{ :( :{

REgards


Sheep

[apacau]

Well, Metro VH-HPB (I think) has been grounded in Canberra for a long time now, since its emergency landing here.

Anyone know how long it will be staying?

[jerrry]

I take it my recently sent resume is now in the bin?????

[Freek Flyer]

I don't think the bean counters put the writing on the wall, i think it was CASA.

Apacau, apparantly the company are having troubles with the insurance company, so until resolved, the plane stays.

[wessex19]

they have been operating with only 3 metros for most of the year. More times than not aircraft are running late, Cooma has gone real bad, willytown has been an expensive exercise and when you buy a "new" metro from Mexico with 21, 000 hrs logged, its all gonna end in tears. Heard red rat haven't been impressed. Standby to standby.

[FL CH]

Sheep Guts,

You will find that most large charter companies and small RPT companies now have a QA/Safety Manager to manage their safety systems. Under the new CASR's "ALL" companies will require a "Safety System" and a Safety Manager.

I've head Horzion have trying to sell their passenger 748 for a while, maybe thats why the FA's have gone.

[Sheep Guts]

FL CH,
The Company I worked for only had 5 Dash 8s, and 2 twotters, and they had one QA Guy. And he was the First to go next was the Yank CEO. Then Me :{ and several other Twotter Drivers.

Wessex19


when you buy a "new" metro from Mexico with 21, 000 hrs logged, its all gonna end in tears

Too right! I would be very wary about anything bought in Mexico. The only reason one sells something in these Countries is cause its broke.

:E

[onya]

Sheepy, Wessex,
Just to clarify a couple of things. I don't work for for Horizon. I don't know anyone that works for Horizon. I have no links/involvement with Horizon at all and never have.....BUT.....Both of you have made it blatently clear that neither of you have a clue when it comes to buying airframes. Leave the Mexican thing alone. Anyone that does know a bit about these aircraft (myself included) knows that they where an excellent buy, regardless of who bought them. Seriously, no further comment. You're both making yourselves look like gooses. If further comment is required do some some research on said airframes before putting fingers to keyboard.
Just trying to keep it real.
Onya:}

[Chocks Away]

Also don't forget the end of the ski season is on the 12th Oct, so the winter schedule will be gone.

...other schedule changes...
... that's what you get sub-con. for the white rat.

[The Spin Doctor]

Unfortunately, you take on a job at one of these airlines that take qantas scraps at your own risk. having said that I do hope all these companies, Horizon, Sunshine Express, M**air and many others will survive and prosper I just can't see it happening on scraps.

[Winchester]

Wessex 19. You seem to know a lot about Horizon and the RAN. Its time that you stopped S**ting in your "owen" nest. Get the facts before you state on time performance at Cooma or any other port. Comments like this are damaging to a company that is already in a difficult position. If you are bitter and twisted, then I think its time to take a look at your self. :* :confused:

[FL CH]

Spin Doc,

The only routes Mac-air operate that are ex-Qantas are the island routes from CNS. The routes the Saab's and Metro's operate on are were not operate by a QF regional. Mac-air currently carries around 100,000 pax per year in QLD.

Sunshine Express does operate on the QF 'scraps' but so far they seem to be do very well out of them. From the figures (DoRT&D) I saw the other day in the 12 since they replaced the Impulse 1900's on flights to the Wide Bay area they have increased passenger numbers. On flights to TNG passenger numbers have remained steady (maybe a slight increase) since they replaced FWA.

So it's not all doom and gloom. Both these companies have been strong in the maketing department with lots of local advertsing and support from local government.

[HabibBro]

Why did they need inflated crew numbers to begin with? Get 10 pilots to do a groundschool, some completed ratings some only just getting started - most leaving paid jobs to take a postion- fly the line for a coupla months and then turn round and say sorry Bye Bye!! Bloody Stinks:mad: A$$holes

No wonder they not going super well - spend all that training money and then throw em out on the street only weeks later, wise money spent?? Think not! Amongst other things.......

Shaking the head - your kidding. Feel sorry for this group - Geeezzz

[wessex19]

Winchester,
That six shooter of yours is way off the mark my old mate. First rule of engagement, identify your target before you fire off a salvo. In this case, you are thinking of the wrong man!!!!!

[bush mechanics]

Mexicans!!Who made up most of the labor force at Fairchild when they still made metros.Hey bandacooos!!!!Mexicanas

[RootCheck]

From what i hear the management at Horizon have taken a potentially great operation with excellent prospects for expansion and basically through incompetence, sent it on its way down the gurgler.
I can only hope that the employees that have been retrenched & demoted have sought legal advice. From what I understand, no redundancy packages were offered. if a position is made redundant for whatever reason, what is the legal obligation of the company?
A great shame to see a company with such potential be reduced to a sinking ship.
True Qantas are looking closely and are none too impressed. If things continue on the current path, more job losses as the big Q desides they want an operator that is capable of doing the job tasked to them, not one that has to cut services for any number of reasons.
Best of luck to the crew relieved of their position by such a cowardly means.

[FL CH]

Don't know if it's related to Horzion, but I have heard Qantas has asked Sunshine Express Airlines if they would like to expand their operation in NSW.

[ZLBoy]

Would appear the wheels may be loosening at Horizon through more examples of 10 second experts running the show. This is a real shame as there is nothing essentially wrong with the business, only personnel. On that note 'Sheep Guts' QA personnel are a vital part of any airline when they do their jobs. Your examples are obviously of people who didn't and therefore were the first to leave. From your comments though it would appear your a QA expert already because you can fly an aeroplane - nice work & attitude.

On another front REX has received news of more crew moving onto to VB and Jet Connect, we will be recruiting M23 crew soon. All those HZ kids looking for work please dust off the staff CV site with updated details and please make sure you include HZ as last employer.

Good luck

[Lazarus]

Nice words ZL Boy! Should be more news like that instead of doom and gloom.

Regards to those involved with HZ and hope it works out for you all. Having been there myself my thoughts are with you.

Cheers

[23 Metros In a Row]

Nothing wrong with the Horizon business???? Hey what the...?

Cooma, Taree and to a lesser extent Grafton are the "terminal" ports of NSW RPT. The list of casualties is long and distinguished (and not so distinguished).

Cooma - many have tried, few have succeeded
Taree - not much better
Grafton - no good on its own

I don't think that the business is based in any way on quality ports or revenues.

And don't forget this is the second time. Swan Hill, Broken Hill, Mildura.

Such failures to base a business on reliable and sustainable revenues do however point directly at management or lack of direction.

[Turbiney]

Nothing wrong?

Grafton was over 25,000 pax annually
Taree was over 20,000 pax pax annually
Willamtown was over 50,000 pax annually - although shared
Cooma - good only in winter, but 16,000+ pax annually

The only reason it seems that Horizon is struggling is due to losing annual pax numbers due to their previous poor performance.

Seems to me they just need to get what they do right, and trim back.

Hope the retrenchment is the answer. But the way they seem to have gone about it seems like a foolish & cowardly management style.

Isn't Bikkies Jnr GM there and the head of the management - If he is, from what I hear there's not much hope, especially if the CEO has gone.

[23 Metros In a Row]

Whats wrong....

The pax numbers quotes are loaded with about 20,000 ghosts from Willy; and well not sure of your benchmarks, not flash for a 19 seat operation.

What's wrong...... the number of times the machine has to go there and back to move that many people.........and more importantly how much they pay.

Simple RPT economics, passengers want everything, and pay for nothing. When the airline gives them everything and gets nothing..........wulla.......... airline in trouble.

Both Cooma and Grafton have to be paired with another port to sustain the hardware demanded by the routes.

As for Willy, the economics are not the best when you cycle a Metro every 25 minutes and run 18 minute sectors.......with all but fresh air in the cabin.

The duck is struggling to do 50,000 pax a year at the moment ex Pelican, and Horizon have a death pencil up against a Dash8 and 717 on the same route, and they wonder why their loads and yield are up to sh!t.

Management, management, management. Usual story in aviation.

[megle2]

If you live in Grafton and need to go to Sydney, hop in your car, drive past the Grafton Airport and continue to Coffs Harbour. I'm told thats about 25 mins extra x 2.

Catch Virgin 73 for half the fare or less

Ends up quicker ( and cheaper ) as Horizon Metro is either late or cancelled.

[On Track]

I heard recently that the alcoholism of a senior figure in Horizon has been something of a problem for the company.

Anyone able to comment/confirm/deny?

[apacau]

I hear another metro came into Canberra last night with "mechanical problems". 2 metros in CBR out of service. Can't be a good thing.

Anyone know any more details??

[HabibBro]

Yeh they're putting a ground display fleet together in CB!!!!!!!:\
They said the first one would be back in a month.....mmm maybe a year! Yes it would be enuf to drive you to drink.

[bush mechanics]

Wonder if Crusty the Clown is still flying for them?

[On Track]

I understand Horizon is now in voluntary receivership.

[slice]

bush mechanics - crusty doesn't have the initials BM does he ??:}

[walkonair]

FYI,

If you are going to quote airline figures at least get them right. Cooma, as a winter port, was always going to be downsized come the summer sked. Willy is picking up loads quite reasonably. The sked doesnt require more than 3 a/c and that leaves one free for maintenance. On time performance needs to be improved but its not as if all the staff sit there and go "gee, why dont we make taree late today?" All staff (pilots, engineers, operators and managers) do their best to keep the a/c running.

As for the shedding of management staff, when those employed dont do their job correctly, or deliberately set out to damage the company, then they must go. It is a shame they didnt go before the company got into trouble.

The issue of the 748's. Most of them are freighters but there was one passenger version which used 2 f/a's. Unfortunately it was losing money and in order for the company to continue operating - albeit not to the capacity it once did - then it had to go. The ****** about that was so did the f/a's who from my understanding were a wonderful bunch of people.:D

[helldog]

Sad news there back in oz. I hope none of the blokes I know there were affected. And if so I hope you are not out in the cold too long. Sorry to hear the news, take care.

Cheers

[Wirraway]

ABC News Online

Thursday, November 6, 2003. 6:45pm (AEDT)
Regional airline gains investor to continue trading

The struggling regional carrier Horizon Airlines will continue to trade after another company, Transjet, agreed to invest in the operator.

The airline which operated services to several regional centres including Cooma, Taree, Grafton and Ballina, went into voluntary administration over a month ago with debts around $3 million.

At a creditors meeting in Sydney this afternoon, a company deed of arrangement was entered into whereby Transjet took over control of Horizon.

It is yet to be revealed whether all Horizon's services will be maintained.

===========================================

[Farknel]

So..........who/what is Transjet?

Does anyone have some information about the "white knight" that would give all concerned an increased level of confidence.

Fark.

[sedgie]

Slice,
The Crusty that I know has the initials JW.

Bush Mech, We might have flown together. He was my CP for a while.