Greatest British (post WW2) miltary pilot

[Navaleye]

Jump in and have your choice:

My nomination: Lt Cdr "Sharkey" Ward RN.

CO of 801 NAS in the Falklands campaign and one of the original converts to the Sea Harrier. Ward fully understood the capabilities of this unique aircraft. With just 8 a/c originally 801 got the best of its equipment and people through Ward's leadership and insight. 801 pilots became skilled and day and night sorties in a single seat a/c - no easy task. Wards low level tactics proved a great deterrent to the Argentine airforce, thus proving to the Argentines that its successes against F5s and F15s in exercises was no fluke but a capability to be reckoned with.

[Cheeks]

Exactly who I was thinking of.

[Didntdoit]

Is this the greatest pilot who got in the news or does it include the many that no one has ever heard of who did the same sort of thing as Sharkey but no-one wrote about it as there wasn't a war on.

Red Dog?
BJ?
Big Bob I?
Bill Beaumont?
"Pink Spitfire" pilot (sorry - can't remeber this jag mates' name)


Just asking?:confused:

[Navaleye]

Bill Beaumont was my second choice BTW.

[BEagle]

Not Ward.

Bill Beaumont, I would agree.

But the truly great don't shout about it, write books about it or get themselves in the newspapers all the time...

[Woff1965]

How about Captain Eric "Winkle" Brown RN. Retired as the RN's chief test pilot circa 1970.

Still the holder of the world record for the number of carrier landings, first landing AND take-off of a jet from a carrier and most aircraft types flown.

[FEBA]

Clearly you all know the square root of sod all about rugby but alot about digression.
The Greatest rugby player ever to have walked on the hallowed turf of twickenham and plenty of other places too was Barry John.
FEBA

[NigelOnDraft]

<<My nomination: Lt Cdr "Sharkey" Ward RN.>>
Ummmm...

I hope you have sourced your info from somewhere other than his book... Your post sounds remarkably like everything he wrote in there!

He certainly would never win an award for modesty...

Unless of course Navaleye is Sharkey on another self promotion exercise?

I am not saying anything against him - and any unbiased thoughts welcome... Certainly Woodward's book had no special mention of him (but then Sharkey had little good to say about Woodward!)

NoD

[Navaleye]

LOL !

If I was ward I think I would have plugged myself a bit louder than that and probably deleted the post WW2 bit as well. Still a great pilot IMHO though.

[izod tester]

Flt Lt Neil Williams?

[BEagle]

The Scottish Officer?

Ba$tard Bill?


.......not many votes for either, methinks!

[ARXW]

There were a few F-4K jocks who would outfly the Sharkey in an ACM environment...(actually the Hooligan - SHAR test with a test flight ejection from a SHAR in '82 -was one of them as Sharkey admits to in his book) and another guy from 892 too...

Greatest is way too general IMO. Greatest as in greatest contribution would be quite a few...If you are talking about ACM which is what I care about then he's right in there with the best of them!

[Jackonicko]

Neil Williams has got to be up there, surely. Or Ray Hanna? Dickie Duckett? John Farley? Peter Carmichael (shooting down MiG-15s in a Sea Fury, for goodness sake!)? Keith Hartley? John Aldington? One of the RAF Sabre MiG-killers (Probably John Nicholls, since he got to Air Rank as well)? John Crampton (sneaky Canberras and RB-45s) 'Mac' Furze? Bill Pixton? Sam Drennan? Dave Bagshaw?

Ward's claim on the title is slightly diminished by his flair for self publicity, his apparent attitude to anyone who wasn't on his squadron (or at least in his community) and by his inability to see that some people might see some difference between celebrating a kill over an enemy combat aircraft, and doing the same, with equal relish and without apparent remorse, when it came to an unarmed C-130. Maybe taking account of squeamish civvy sensibilities is of no import, but many of the real greats are nice blokes, sensitive and modest as well.

Thus among the Falklands SHar pilots there were a host of nicer chaps, who arguably achieved as much, and sometimes even more. Steve Thomas? Dave Morgan? Rod Frederiksen? Paul Barton?

And I wouldn't want to ignore Bob Iveson, Peter Squire, Tony Harper, Jerry Pook, or Jeff Glover. (I met him after he'd been 'hoiked' into the Reds as a last minute replacement - top bloke!)

[Fox3snapshot]

Its all very well nominating guys that got to fly the wonderful British machinery, what about the blokes who got the machinery there in the first place. Some of your test pilots must be worth a mention.

:8

[Woff1965]

Well, both Beumont and "Winkle" Brown were test pilots of considerable note.

[Gainesy]

Beags

I think your nominees would tie in the Back-Stabbing Baastard Stakes; unless of course the Screaming Skull were entered.:E

[Didntdoit]

Gainsey

Or indeed, Voldermole! (I'm not mentioning his name - I can't afford to buy everyone drinks on this forum!). :ok:

Jacko

Lived next to Glovesy 12 years ago - diamond geezer, absolute diamond.

Shall we open up an alternative forum to suggest the American alternative? Let's start with

Chappy James
Robin Olds
Chuck Yeager

I'll get me coat.....

[ORAC]

I think the Spams' will need their own thread, but John Boyd and Randy Cunningham would have to creep onto their list.

[Jackonicko]

Anyone reading Chuck Yeager's book would put him top of the list.

Anyone comparing his descriptions with reality would reach a different conclusion. One prime example came in his description of flying the X-4, which (I'm paraphrasing) was such a bitch and so difficult to fly that after he'd shown it who was boss they dumped it in the desert there and then, and that no-one else was allowed near it. In fact it went on to fly hundreds more test flights, though one of its later pilots commented that its handling was it did require 'some finesse'. There's no doubt that Yeager was a giant (ten times the man I'll ever be), with enormous balls and incredible guts, but he may not have been the super-hero (in stick and rudder terms) that he claimed, and his belittling of other test pilots of his era (in print) tarnishes his reputation a bit, in my eyes.

But great Spam pilots are legion. Jimmy Stewart (yes, the actor and sometime B-24 pilot, who even flew a combat mission in 'Nam in a B-52!) would be up there, together with Dick Bellinger (F-8 ace in 'Nam), John Glenn, Pete Fernandez, etc.

[ARXW]

Hello,

Jackonicko, you seem a little biased when it comes to the RAF aren't you?

I think I do understand Sharkey a little better now ref. his crab bashing!Well he did have a top notch team and he was an AWI after all!! Honest arrogance would probably describe the man (which is still preferable to false modesty in the immortal words of an american Navy pilot).

I don't know what the point in mentioning the C-130 incident is but if you read a little more closely he does show the proper sensitivity over the issue but comes across very clearly and correctly on this issue IMO especially as there were 'war circumstances' applied to the case. A bad potshot that one, if you ask me.

Btw outspoken does not necessarily mean not nice does it?

As for the americans, well that would be too big an issue that would have to go on a separate list...The no.1 slot is way too easy though so here you go:
COL John Boyd USAF (lasting contribution to aeronautics, aerial combat, field strategy and competitive thinking into business etct etc). More importantly Pope John among the cadre of USAFFWS instructor pilot and the best ACM pilot at the time.

Purely ACM:LT Mel Holmes USN (best ACM pilot to drive a Phantom)
LCDR John 'Smash' Nash (1 of the best ACM 'sticks' -F-4s also)
LCDR Jerry Sawatzky

All three above were of the from the original Topgun cadre who created the syllabus. 1 more is LT Jim 'Hawkeye' Laing a RIO who was THE WIZARD one of the most impressive NFOs ever. Between 21 and 23 years of age he had: 2 war cruises, Vietnam, 2 combat ejections, 1 Mig kill. On return to the states in '69 he bacame a Topgun 'developer' at age 23. Randy Cunningham and many others (years older senior to Laing) were instructed on the fine art of aerial combat by this 23 year old! Generations of RIOs still hold him as the finest USN RIO to have ever been, 'exemplifying the professionalism of the NFO' in the words of another RIO.

The crazy CDR Hoser Satrapa (F-8s, F-14s) had the finest spirit in any fighter pilot I've seen. One of the finest ever ACM pilots. CAPT Dale Snodgrass USN the high time F-14 driver and modern day top F-14 driver. You may have seen this fly by by him:
http://www.aerofiles.com/f14flyby.jpg

Chuck Yeager yes but not Robin Olds who by many accounts was a poor tactical leader in Nam.

Finally, the legend of Nellis, the acknowledged USAF FWS air to air guru COL Clyde 'Joe Bob' Phillips was among the great too...

[Jackonicko]

Ah!

Memories. I once interviewed 'Hoser', who, if memory serves, shot his own thumb off! Also Dale S, who was another top bloke.

I don't know about pro-Crab bias. I think that Pete Carmichael's achievement gives him a real claim for that top spot, and I even remembered Sam Drennan, a contender from the Hairy Arm Corps.

[ARXW]

Wow,

You interviewed hoser!Tell us more!The guy should have written a book IMO.

He did blow away his thumb with a 20mm rifle...(!)He had to undergo surgery to replace it with his toe and here's the result (Hoser right)!
http://www.nevadacountylife.com/airfest/2000photos/thumbs.jpg :ok:

Snort is well respected in the american airshow circuit and I hear he got into politics these days(!?)

[Jackonicko]

I interviewed him for an article about the F-8, some years ago. I'll have to go back and look at my notes for more, I just remember a top bloke who had shot his thumb off - I hadn't remembered the toe, until you mentioned it.

[bluetail]

There's no way "Sharkey Ward" would have been anything without the likes of Bill Bedford. He set one of the standards for TP,s, all those who tested the 'Blunder jet' were in my book the best,

And just to throw another in, what about "Cats Eyes" and his exploits in the Comet.

[Jackonicko]

I'd kind of thought that the post war emphasis excluded guys like Bea Beamont, Winkle Brown, Peter Twiss, Neville Duke, Mike Lithgow, John Derry, Roly Falk, John Cunningham, Ron Gellatly, Hazel Hazeldean, Jock Bryce, Mutt Summers, and all those great post war TPs who began their careers in (or before) WW2.

[Didntdoit]

Jacko

Maybe and maybe not, although perhaps a tadge too pedantic?:\

Anyway, has anyone mentioned John Farley?

[Gainesy]

Yes, that's him over there in the corner, blushing furiously.:)

[doubledolphins]

Winkle gets my vote.
More types flown than any one else. First jet carrier landing, first piston twin carrier landing and "flying saucer" chaser. Would have been through the sound barrier before Yeager if Miles had built their X1 lookalike before Bell got the plans.

[tony draper]

And with a real engine not a firework up its arse.
;)
I'm a great admirer of Yeager but I wish somebody would tell him that they were not the first with the all flying tailplane.

I am not really qualified to have a opinion on this subject, but I have read a article by a person in a position to know these things that described someone not a million miles from here as the best fighter Pilot in the RAF.
No names no packdrill as you military chaps say.
;)

[InFinRetirement]

"Winkle" was in the programme on Chanel 4 Last night. He looks very fit and he WAS and IS a most remarkable man. That first deck landing was an absolute peach - perfect!

But as far as John Farley is concerned. The Harrier would never have gotten anywhere without his immense flying skills AND his ability to dictate, in pure engineering terms, what was required to make the aeroplane what it is today. He has to be in the top of the top TP's.

[Jackonicko]

Open minded, analytical, and a great, really gifted communicator (thank god he had a day job 'cos his occasional articles for Flight were great). And a kind, generous, charming and modest bloke, too! John Farley isn't just one of the top TPs, IMHO.

[RRAAMJET]

Jacko - I've had the pleasure to fly with Steve Thomas in Cathay; one of the nicest, most unassuming blokes you could meet, and still a great stick. (Still testing jets for CX, too, I think...).

What about Brian Trubshaw?

As for the US: John Young, Bob Hoover, any of the X-15 drivers.

The ultimate test landing? Neil Armstrong at Tranquility Base.

(And then there was this infamous Canadian who had the best pair of mits I've ever flown with: Eric Matheson....wild man, Eric the Red is still an air race pilot, I believe. F-101's, 104's, '5s and '18's. Landed an L-1011 with totally jammed pitch control at TPE, once...without a scratch. Made landing in Typhoon Kent at Kai Tak just a walk in the park...). Cheers, mate, if you're reading...:ok:

[Gary Astazu]

Your all wrong!

His name is GFS. Greatest Gazelle pilot that ever served in NATO!

And still kicking about.

:8

[blaireau]

I imagine there are one or two Israeli pilots out there with some claim to the title "best". A neccessary anonymity would prevent them claiming it however.

[Unwell_Raptor]

Captain John Mahon. I don't know what his flying is like but he knows how to take a joke.

[PLovett]

To throw another name into the ring:

Randall "Duke" Cunningham.

The description of his 5th victory over North Vietnam surely must be a classic in jet combat.

[Argus]

And another ....

Reg Meissner - RAAF Sabre and Mirage pilot extraordinaire!

[pulse1]

One of the great navy pilots for me was Nick Goodhart who developed the mirror deck landing aid for carriers. Not only did he fly Scimitars off carriers, and anyone who survived a tour doing that was a hero in my eyes, he was one Britain's top glider pilots of his day.

[Jackonicko]

If we're talking glider pilots then Warrant Officer Andy Gough RIP.

Or how about George Lee? Or as a glider pilot/instructor and great chap Bernard Brownlow?

[solotk]

I have had an RAF FJ Pilot of the era, tell me a certain PPrune contributor was possibly the best F-4 Pilot in the RAF - ever

Modesty precludes me from naming him, but his book is a bloody good read,especially his modesty over just how good he really was.

Australians?

Gary Cooper , I'd buy that man a drink any day. Bags of courage, and a Spit lover to boot. A genuine Oz hero.

Jacko, on Glider Pilots..... I'd say Mike Edwards , excellent bloke and courageous under fire in his other occupation.

[InFinRetirement]

Well OK Jacko. But I didn't want to embarrass JF too much.

Next time I see him I shall no doubt be 'told' about this but there ya go! The man is the tops!

[Phoney Tony]

No doubt in my mind.

Art Stacey.

[Nozzles]

I'd like to take the 'Post WW2' limitation off for a moment. Eric 'Bubi' Hartmann (Luftwaffe) simply for the greatest number of kills of all time....cos after the commit that's all that counts. However, as an all-rounder I think Von Richtofen's outstanding leadership and inspiration of his junior fighter pilots makes up for the fact that he got less than one third the number of kills Hartmann got.

If it has to be post WW2, then I also go for Armstrong. Landing in a place no human had ever been, completely lost and with 15 seconds of fuel left, he didn't pull the abort handle. Anybody know anybody else with balls like that?

[tony draper]

What about Alan Shepard, a few walked on the moon before him but nobody more determined ever did,they could not dock with the LEM on the trip out, that was enough to cause a abort right there ,Shepard was prepared to suit up go outside and heave the buggah out by hand,lash it to the Command Moule and haul it to the moon like that people who knew Shepard said he was not kidding,then he put the LEM down on a slope that should have called for a immediate abort , but not Shepard, he was going to put his footprint on the moon or die trying.
He had his critics, but Shepard was definatly the right stuff.
Gone now alas.

[Jackonicko]

Hartmann's score owes a great deal to opportunity (target rich environment and an unlimited tour of operations), luck (he was shot down five times), and 'lax kill claim verification' by comparison with (say) the RAF.

He also wasn't British or military or post World War II.

But even if we're including German WWII blokes, Barkhorn (as a fighter leader) might better deserve the accolade, or even Hans Joachim Marseilles out in the Western Desert.

For WWI Barker would take a lot of beating (how many nil in that Snipe versus the entire German Imperial Flying Service?) while on the German side, Richthofen famously wasn't much of a pilot whereas Voss and Udet were both superb stick and rudder blokes, and almost as successful.

Or how about the leading scorer in Korea, Yevgeni Pepelyaev!

I'll get me coat....

[ARXW]

Good point on mentioning Korea Jacko. The USAF (with some RAF, RCAF and USN pilots sprinkled in) was one of THE most aggressive fighter forces around and some of the greatest 'sticks' belong to that community...

Some of the greatest: Joe McConnell (16 kills) - heard on RT saying to his wingie 'got 30 Migs at 12 o'clock all to ourselves' or something to that effect, Ralph Parr (10 kills) with his epic 1v16 fight after diving to attack a formation of 16 Migs alone as tail end charlie. His CO said on his return: 'This is the last time you fly as a wingman when we need shooters up front!'. Others would be Boots Blesse, described as a top 'stick', Robbie Risner (distinguished graduates at the Nellis FWS receive the award named after him) and also a Canadian chap by the name of Doug Lindsay a Sqn Ldr at the time of the Korean war who in the words of his famous wingman (double ace Capt Hal Fischer -10/12 kills) was 'the finest pilot in the air'. He's seen below both as an ace Spit pilot and at far right during his time in Korea:
http://www.spitfire-museum.com/pilots/james_lindsay.jpg
http://mars.ark.com/~camuseum/RCAF/images/Pilots.jpg

The Soviets clearly had quite a number of pilots from the top league in Korea especially during the first several months. Pepelyaev undoubtedly was a great pilot but his final score is something to be argued as according to a number of researchers lately he couldn't be verified with more than 12 kills (claimed 23).

Erich Hartmann on the other hand was truly great. He survived a greater number of hazardous situations in the air than the ones you mention but he was never shot down in air combat while winning 352 times - an unbelievable feat. His score includes approx. 250 fighters (or more) and at least 7 Mustangs (many of those on a single mission...).

PS In answer to Nozzles question about balls..I have still to come across a story to match the sheer courage (or ignorant stupidity perhaps?) of a few of the Marine CAS pilots in Vietnam in the early years of the war..Particularly Capt Manny Simpson's (USMC) mission to support ambushed USMC forces engaged with the NVA. Conditions beyond what would be described as IFR and closer to what would be described as hell, 250ft cloud base, rain, 450kts through and around valleys to repeatedly drop retarded bombs and then returning to find most bases switched off due to weather and an ILS landing with absolutely zero visibility being guided down to touch down and landing without ever having seen the runway due to fog...Frankly amazed at the fact these guys never received a MOH, certainly worth at least one IMO!

[Nozzles]

Yeah, Drapes, no question about Al Shepard. Didn't he die of cancer recently?

Jacko, I'm not quite sure why you've singled out my two nominees for such a thorough attack. As for them being of the wrong nationality and era to meet the criteria of the title of this thread, the thread had long before diversified to include such people-that's why it's still going. And as for Hartmann not being military, my sources list him as both GAF and Luftwaffe. In any case, I don't care if his only professional association was as a fully paid up member of the Bavarian Queer Tuba Players Society, who swanned around the mess in a ballgown with a schooner of sherry welded to his starboard mitt-the man shot down three hundred and fifty two aeroplanes in combat. His target environment may well have been rich. However, for target environment, read hazard environment-it's not a grouse shoot. The targets shoot at you as well. As for lax kill claim verification (if that can be objectively assessed) I'll deduct his first one hundred kills to keep you happy. He still looks awesome to me.

And as for Von Richtofen being 'famously not much of a pilot' I guess you reckon the standard for a below average pilot was 80 kills. Perhaps it was that luck thing you were talking about. In terms of his leadership, his junior pilots thought he was legendary.

ARXW-you seem to be a bit of a Vietnam expert-can you fill us in on the story about the guy who pushed his flamed-out wingman many miles to safety using the nose of his aircraft?

[FEBA]

I think it would be fitting for Lt Cdr Jack London to get a mention here
FEBA

[Jackonicko]

Nozzles,

Do calm down dear!

Richthofen was famously not much of a pilot (endless crack-ups on landing, endless near accidents), but he was a great tactician, a good leader and a fantastic shot. There's no doubt that he was a successful fighter pilot (the top scorer of the Great War), but that's not necessarily the mark of being a great pilot. The thread was about a chap being the 'greatest British (post WW2) military pilot'. Not about being the greatest air-to-air combat ace.

Hartman was, of course, military (doh typo sorry). But he did have to walk home 5 times and, like Richthofen, was not a great natural pilot, whereas Barkhorn had superb hands and later took to the F-86 (and the -104, if memory serves) like a duck to water.

That's all I meant.

[StopStart]

Nozzles

Pardo's Push (http://www.boeing.com/defense-space/military/f4/pardopush.htm)

[ARXW]

Beat me to it, though the previously mentioned Robbie Risner did the same thing to his wingman during the Korean war and got him all the way out to friendly airspace, however in that case the wingman drowned following his ejection over the sea...

[Archimedes]

Barkhorn had superb hands and later took to the F-86 (and the -104, if memory serves) like a duck to water.

But, IIRC, he took to the Harrier (well, the Kestrel, actually) 'like a duck to accountancy'. Stuffed one on landing and then engagingly enquired whether he could count it as his 302nd kill against the Allies...

[Nozzles]

Now, you see, it just goes to show that you can be a sixty-times ace, but you need to be an absolute GOD to fly a Harrier!

Taking cover.......

[Pontius Navigator]

Ron Dick

Pete Perry

Both Vulcan drivers.

[F Adec]

I reckon that the Best Pilot of All Time award should go to a Tornado Mud Mover.

How about John Peters, for putting up with that mad :mad: navigator Nicholl.


:p

[Flugplatz]

Have only seen one nomination for Peter Twiss so far!
(actually, I am not sure exactly what things he achieved but I know he was a leading test pilot during the 50's and 60's)

Definitely did set an FAI record for the first jet to exceed 1,000mph in the Fairy Delta! , which came as a bit of a shock to the Americans and French (which never hurts now does it?)

Also, I would like to propose (in a unique catagory): NASA astronaut Michael Foal - (British or American?- you decide)
He has now got 6 x spaceflights under his belt (including MIR and now the ISS) and seems to be equally highly regarded by the Russians (he is fluent) and the USA. Surely carrying the torch for British piloting skills at the current time?

P.S.
I like Sharkey Ward; his anti RAF rant at the end of SHAR over the FI never fails to warm the cockles of my heart!)

El Flug :8

[fobotcso]

Not my definitive submission, you understand, but it really is worth looking around at what was going on before you went into long pants.

Air Vice-Marshal David Dick (who died in 1999)

RAF test pilot who carried on tape-recording an assessment as his delta-wing jet plummeted to earth in an irrecoverable spin

"AIR VICE-MARSHAL DAVID DICK, the test pilot who has died aged 75, survived an irrecoverable spin while testing the world's first twin-jet delta-wing fighter.

On December 8 1955, Dick was testing a Gloster Javelin at the Aeroplane & Armament Experimental Establishment (A & AEE), Boscombe Down. He had completed three normal spins when, before returning to base, he decided to explore the Javelin's buffet boundary.

At 40,000 ft the aircraft entered an unusual spin, and Dick realised he was in serious trouble. Even so, as he lost control and the jet spun earthwards over the Isle of Wight, Dick continued to monitor its performance. Calmly and methodically he gave relevant information to a wire recorder. He did not eject until he reached 8,000 ft."

David Dick Obit (http://www.207squadron.rafinfo.org.uk/ADDobit.htm)

[SixOfTheBest]

I'd nominate Flt Lt Charles 'Charlie' Charles. A legend in his own lunchtime, the young whip first saw service in the RAF at the end of the second world war. At a strapping 4 feet 9 inches tall, he made the lasses tremble at the knees. Logging 769 kills in the last year of the war, he was a bulwark amongst men (and ladies apparently). Perhaps more legendary were his mess antics. On one wintry night he got lashed up on Pimms and Tonic, ran down to Dover, swam across the channel, evaded the gerries all the way to the eagles nest, broke in and painted a comedy black square on the fuhrers top lip while he slept. By all accounts, AH was so chuffed he left it on (though the SDO at the Eagles Nest was shot). Perhaps CCC's greatest feats (but little known) were shortly after the war. He taught Chuck Y how to progessively adjust the attitude and trim, Robin Olds how to calculate Bingo fuel and Sharkey Ward how to integrate with other squadrons. He singlehandedly sorted out the Cuban missile crisis by allegedly sending each of the leaders a picture of Adolf with the message 'Sort it out, or C cubed is comin to get ya', was the first man on the moon (the original broadcast message did in fact say, 'This is one large step for me (4 feet tall) and an even bigger one for Blightey') and, shortly before his demise, discovered Australia. So, I nominate the above for being a top bloke.

SOTB

[Ali Barber]

Had a temporary brain dump. What was the name of the aerobatic pilot who had a wing start to fold in a Zlin or something similar. Rolled into the collapsing wing (not natural reaction, but he had thought about the possibility before and realised which side he needed lift on). Recovered inverted and at the last second flipped it the right way up to land. That one act alone marks him out as a genius and one of the greatest post WW2 pilots. Don't think he was military though.

[Piece of Cake]

Ali Barber

I believe the Gentleman you are refering to is Neil Williams, the incident occured at Hullavington in1970, he was flying a Zlin 526.

He wrote (in my opinion) one of the best books ever on Aerobatics. You should be able to buy it from any good pilot/bookshop.

Brgds

PoC

[WEBLUEIT]

Gary Astazou is so right about GFS, but what about the likes of "Stick" Kane?

[obnoxio f*ckwit]

Me! .

[teeteringhead]

AB/P of C

Neil Williams got a QCVSA for that incident - very unusual (I believe) for a civvy...

[izod tester]

But then, he wasn't a civvy. He was a Flt Lt RAF. He was also UK National aerobatics champion for something like 12 years. I first saw him at a display at Cranfield in 1966.

[ARXW]

Neil Williams' book's a treat, though nothing new to a mil pilot. Except you wouldn't be doing a lomkovac (or whatever the name is in a Tornado) I don't think...

Otherwise, that should have been one fun pilot to watch. Titbits that stick to mind from the book are his (alleged) ability to withstand +9 and -6g for meaningful amounts of time (without anti-g of course). The fact that you never get cold in an open cockpit (as your heartbeat goes 180 during aeros) the pint stays in place on the dashboard during a loop and...it took him two years plus, to perfect the slow roll...:eek:

[soddim]

One wonders how many pints he spilled in the slow rolls!

[teeteringhead]

Sorry, civvy at the time of the award I meant. I think he was no longer Flt Lt by then.

Rare, but not unusual; I think there was a QCVSA for a "forced landing" in a biggish jet, but I can't remember and am too idle to Google it!

PS - by one of those amazing coincidences, just after posting the above, happened to read in a Concorde article that John Cochrane got a QCVSA in 1971 for his Concorde test flying...

[Pontius Navigator]

Like Neil Williams there are a couple of others who recovered when many others would have crashed.

One, a Master Pilot, flying an Anson had a failure of the undercarriage. One method was to use a hand pump and pump it down. For some reason this was not an option. So he feathered one engine and used the starter motor to rotate the two-bladed prop horizontal. He continued with a single engine approach. Just before touchdown he feathered the other. Again he motored the prop and executed a three-point landing on the protruding main wheels and tail wheel. The aircraft was undamaged.

The other was Sqn Ldr John Elias flying a Shackleton AEW in about 1980. As the aircraft got airborne and he pulled back on the control column the aircraft nosed over. He pushed, it climbed.

He then flew a circuit using the controls in the reverse sense and made a perfect landing saving the aircraft and denying the caterpillar club 6 or 7 new members. AFAIK he did not get an award.