South East from Manchester

[Dick Fisher]

Living just south of Stafford for over 20 years, on clear days and nights I have always had the opportunity to laze in the garden looking upwards to see arrivals into Birmingham and departures from Manchester,

However, the latter seem to be much fewer in number nowadays. Can anyone help explain why this should be so, when every bit of evidence says that Manchester is getting busier all the time?

Also, between ten and eleven pm most nights, I see a twin engined jet travelling south east - quite obviously not climbing or descending, but at what I would guess is around 10,000 feet.

Is this a UK positioning flight rather than a "normal" flight?

Any help/enlightenment most welcome! Right I'll just put my anorak away then....

[1261]

It could be that the SID routes from Manchester (off the 24 end) changed significantly when the second runway opened. Most southbound jets used to turn left almost immediately after departure on the CONGA SID; the new LISTO SID is only available to RJs, other southbound jets route via HONILEY and would (I imagine) be well to the west of you.

I'm sure someone from MAN will give you a more detailed answer.

[bagpuss lives]

As 1261 rightly says I suspect the reason things are a little quieter for you is the introduction of the HONILEY SID.

Whilst the LISTO SID is available for prop a/c (and a few others as agreed with MAPLc e.g the E145, CRJ, BA46 etc) the big boys departing off the 24 end will now fly the HONILEY 1Y / 1R SID.

This entails a slight right turn upon departure (at DME 3 or DME 3.2) onto a westerly heading for a short time. This is to avoid the Knutsford noise-sensitive (and cash rich) area. At MCT DME 5 the aircraft then bend back 'round - overflying Sandbach (RP SANBA) on a direct track to the HON VOR.

The LISTO SIDs fly inside (or East) of this track making a left turn to LISTO instead at MCT DME 2 (24R) or 3.2 (24L).

There may be some revision to these SIDs in the very near future so things may change at some point.

With regard to the flight which overflies your house - it could be anything really. We do have flights positioning from EGCC to EGBB / EGBE / EGNX and sometimes other bits and bobs floating around lower than you'd expect them to be. I can't really be any more specific or helpful than that - sorry :)

Whilst you don't get much opportunity to dot spot - at least it's a little quieter for you noise-wise :D

[BN2A]

And with the new and improved DESIG departure, some people use that now instead. Shorter routing than the old STOCK route, so may be enough for the bean counters to send us that way instead of over HON.. I seem to have done the big right turn over town a few more times this year than last...

:ok:

[Dick Fisher]

Many thanks for your help on this one. My next task must be to track down the SID routes so I have a clearer picture of where the flights are tracking.

[1261]

All UK SIDS are available online (free, but you must register) at:

www.ais.org.uk

You'll need to go to UK AIP (the "Air Pilot"), Aerodrome Data, Aerodromes - Specific, and then select Manchester. All the SID plates are there in PDF format.

This is a great site if you have trouble nodding off......