ATA 757 overrun at Midway

[Vapor]

http://html.nbc5.com/sh/slideshow/_auto/sh29119s1.html

[B Sousa]

They had another 75 feet, not bad......In this day and age its usually unfortunate for the crew. Anyone see a cause as to this??

[av8boy]

Appears to be KMDW runway 31C:

Dimensions: 6522 x 150 ft. / 1988 x 46 m
Surface: concrete/grooved, in good condition
Weight limitations: Single wheel: 95000 lbs
Double wheel: 165000 lbs
Double tandem: 250000 lbs

47 ft. road, 200 ft. from runway, 225 ft. left of centerline
APCH RATIO 20:1 AT DSPLCD THR. STREET LGT 650 FT FROM DSPLCD THR 500 FT R.

CLOSE-IN OBST ALL RYS EXCEPT RY 13R/31L TOO NUMEROUS TO ITEMIZE.

4-box VASI on left (3.00 degrees glide path)

Latitude: 41-46.75438N
Longitude: 087-44.62430W
Elevation: 611.7 ft.



From the Chicago Sun Times
(and yes, I know there's not much in the way of substance here)


Plane plows through Midway barrier

September 9, 2003

BY ROBERT C. HERGUTH Transportation Reporter Advertisement


After departing Fort Lauderdale on Monday, one of the pilots of ATA Flight 647 told passengers over the PA system that they were going to land early in Chicago, a welcome surprise.

Less welcome and more surprising was how they landed at Midway Airport.

The Boeing 757-300 crashed through a red and white checkered barrier at the end of the runway before coming to rest partially on the grass, 200 to 300 feet from the street.

None of the 107 passengers and seven crew members was injured, but a young pregnant woman, clearly distraught after being shuttled to the terminal, was examined by paramedics as a precaution.

Why the 6-month-old aircraft was unable to stop on the 6,521-foot runway was unclear. But some passengers believe the pilots didn't put the plane on the tarmac soon enough.

"We were half way down the runway, or pretty close to half way, [when] the plane made quite a dip as it was searching for the ground," said 33-year-old passenger Jerome Cleland of Rogers Park.

It was a bumpy landing, punctuated by a loud "bang" as the plane crashed through the barrier, said Dr. Frederick Silverman, a 63-year-old passenger from Boca Raton, Fla.

The accident unfolded so quickly there was little time to be scared, said another flier, 26-year-old Rebecca Nolan of Canaryville.

There were no known mechanical problems with the plane, the tail wind at the time was mild and the pilots were familiar with Midway's layout, officials said.

The plywood barrier, known as a "blast deflector," shields navigational equipment from jet blasts. One navigational aid was knocked out by the plane, but airport operations shouldn't be affected dramatically, officials said.


--Dave

[dudly]

Midway airport is a terrible place to fly into or out of especially in the summer. It is totally surrounded by the city with no overruns on any of the runways. All the majors left many years ago to fly out of O'Hare International airport. Midway airlines revitalized the airport for large transport scheduled service around 1978 or 1979. Many others then followed.

[Avman]

Just a (silly?) tech question. I noted the four sets of skid marks on the last photo. Don't modern a/c have anti-skid systems?

[GlueBall]

The Anti Skid System can be turned off to intentionally lock the wheels, but it's not part of a normal operating procedure.

[seacue]

MDW occupies a "section", a square piece of land one mile on each side. Because of the limited size, you'll notice the "long" runways at MDW are on the diagonals.
http://www.airnav.com/airport/KMDW

LINK TO BETTER PICTURE ADDED:
http://www.airliners.net/open.file/308654/M/

The approach lights are on street corners, in people's yards, etc. The surrounding housing is dense, being row (terraced) houses.

Starting in western Ohio, the US plains were laid out in sections, and typical farms in the old days might be a quarter-section. All over the plains you find "section roads" on a one-mile grid. But the Earth's surface isn't flat, it's a sphere, so there are abrupt jogs where corrections are made. A nice trap for hot-rod kids.

[Anti-ice]

Like the way NBC5 news reported that the 757-300 is normally a 120 seater! prob 320 in an ATA config!!

Would a pilot not hac steered right/left at the last moment to avoid the blast deflector ?!!
Or where the wheels locked at impact as someone inferred?!

[ZFT]

Glueball

Wouldn’t deactivating Anti-Skid increase stopping distance as opposed to decreasing it?

[320DRIVER]

On my Bus, the anti skid deactivates with a groundspeed of less than 20 kts.

[OldAg84]

Thankfully, no one was hurt. As SLF, I fly into Midway about once or twice a month. It is always interesting. The sense of speed (from the back windows) is heightened by the buildings you go over at low level, the THUMP! and you are on the runway. I can easily see the potential for an overrun if the pilot doesn't plant it quick enough. It's amazing they are flying the 757-300's in there anyway (they look so much bigger).

[squarkident]

" the tail wind at the time was mild and the pilots were familiar with Midway's layout, officials said"

not THAT familiar then if they chose to land with a tail wind?

[expedite_climb]

Is it really 6500ft ?? Thats short for a -300 with a load of pax. As I understand it there is only one operator world wide that has the -300 in a 280 seat config, so it was prob in a 250 seat config.

[General Mitrokhin]

6500ft would be short but it's even worse as the runway has a displaced threshold. I believe that the landing distance is of the order of 5900ft which is very tight.

I was watching an ATA 757 landing there a couple of years ago and he seemed to float a fair way past the 1000ft touchdown marker before the nose was pitched down to get the aircraft on the deck immediately. Heavy braking combined with full reverse had the aircraft was stopped 200-300 feet from the end but I wondered then what would have happened if the plane had floated even for a second or two more. I guess now I know!

Watching heavy 727s take-off on that runway was also an experience that had to be seen to be believed. They couldn't have been more than 40-50ft off the ground when they passed over the road at the end!

[FlyChicaga]

I'm guessing half of the responses on here aren't even from pilots, so I won't rebut some of the ridiculous things I read... like the anti-skid thing? Please. :yuk:

The ATA 757-300s have a 247-seat configuration. No First Class.

On runway 31C, there is just over 4900 feet available past the glideslope. So, if you land in the touchdown zone on speed, there is plenty of room available to stop ALL the aircraft operated out of MDW. 757-300 is no exception. The FAA would not allow operations to continue if they were doing things outside of the envelope. This even means operating with a tailwind. We takeoff and land with tailwinds about 50% of the time. By tailwind I mean 5-8 knots, not 30. Those 5-8 knots of tailwind often help keep things from going crazy across the Chicago system since utilizing the ILS 13C approach conflicts greatly with O'Hare. So the person that said "not that familar they chose to land with a tailwind?" They were familiar, that's exactly why they did it.

On 31C (or 22L/4R for that matter) even a little float isn't a huge issue. What I believe came into the factors here was that they landed a bit long and did not have use of the thrust reversers. But I am not going to speculate since none of us have any information about what really happened... I'll wait until we find out.

At my company we fly out of MDW quite a bit. It is a great airport, and everything there is safe. People look at it as if it is dangerous, however nothing is farther from the truth. There is just a lot of metal packed into a square mile. :ok:

[OldAg84]

FlyChicaga

A couple of questions if I may. Based on the proximity of O'Hare it is completely understandable of the potential conflicts should they "reverse" 31C traffic (as you mentioned). What are the prevailing winds most of the time? As an aside, in all my visits to MDW I would say 80-90% landing A/C use 31 and the rest of the time 22 and very occasionally 4. How often does noise abatement or "runway rotation to please the locals" come into play, thanks.

[Airbubba]

Airplane mishap at Midway being blamed on pilot error

Published September 11, 2003

Pilot error caused an ATA Airlines plane to overshoot a runway at Midway Airport Monday and strike a jet-blast deflector, according to a preliminary investigation by the airline released Wednesday.

The unidentified pilot was suspended with pay in accordance with the airline's contract with the Air Line Pilots Association, said ATA spokeswoman Julie Fletcher.

She said the pilot tested negative for alcohol. Results from drug testing were still pending.

The Boeing 757 overshot the landing zone on Midway's longest runway on the flight from Ft. Lauderdale, rolled to the end of the 6,522-foot airstrip and its nose penetrated one panel of the red-and-white checkered blast fence. No injuries were reported among the 107 passengers and seven crew members.

Some passengers aboard the plane said it appeared the plane was almost halfway down the runway before the wheels touched down. Depending on aircraft weight and wind conditions, a Boeing 757 should land within the first 25 percent of a 6,500-foot runway to ensure there is adequate room to stop in case the brakes or thrust-reversers malfunction.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/north/chi-0309110250sep11,1,2839747.story

[Tripower455]

As an aside, in all my visits to MDW I would say 80-90% landing A/C use 31 and the rest of the time 22 and very occasionally 4. How often does noise abatement or "runway rotation to please the locals" come into play, thanks.

I don't think that noise has much bearing on the runway use at MDW. I was based there for 4 years, and had a crash pad on S. Keating. I can say that no matter which way they were operating, it was noisy! I could ALWAYS tell when an ATA 727 took of (flaps 25, bleeds off!) by the way the house shook!

The main concern seems to be conflicting with ORD and secondly the wind direction. 31C is generally the preferred runway for takeoff, since, due to obstacle clearance considerations allows the most weight, even with a tailwind. 31C is also used most often for landing followed by 4R then the ILS 31C circle to 22L (the F.O.'s favorite!).


In my 8 years of flying 737s in and out of MDW, I've seen some interesting approaches and landings. There's not much room for error, and the fact that this sort of thing doesn't happen every day tells me that we are doing a pretty good job overall.

[OldAg84]

Tripower

Thanks for the info- it's pretty clear, even from my aviation buff standpoint, that MDW is a challenge. It's as if your not landing on a runway but in bowl sided by buildings. I love flying in there because it's always a treat. I just hope the pilot doesn't get shwacked too hard for the incident.

[veeks]

I fly into Midway's 31C every day...there are 4927 usable feet beyond the glide slope.

[Ignition Override]

Someone's comment about how seldom we read about any incident at Midway seems accurate. As to another person's comment that Midway is safe, maybe so, if all wind reports are accurate, it is dry and both pilots brief each other on the vital need to avoid any floating or bursts of throttle while in the flare-and they never make a serious error in judging which flair technique to use. I've told FOs in our 60's vintage twin-turbofan machines that if there is ever any doubt about stopping ability at Midway (and no option to circle in VMC to 22R...), i.e. winds, heavy plane, water or snow etc on the landing runway, then we are going around and/or diverting next door to O'Hare etc. If there is any similar question at DCA or LGA, you have much longer runways nearby at airports which definitely qualify as safe airports. The inside of Midway's terminal now has a nice selection of places to eat and find chocolate coffee etc, but what a hazardous, cramped, dump of an airport which is waiting for you outside.

There is the additional hazard of so many runways and almost identical parallel taxiways to cross, when certain runways are in use. You must constantly turn your head because of so many almost identical stretches of concrete. At that airport, you often must either stop your taxi, in order to safely do most checklists, or wait until in the hold-short area. Make sure the Captain tells you about his "plan" before you taxi out of Midway, Boston, etc.

In my opinion, there is no excuse for heavy transport operations into any of these three airports, (and we all know that the US, among other countries, has been in the "jet-age" for decades) under any and all weather conditions with the present physical limitations, except by rationalizing by using a "Third World" mentality, knowing that there has always been money available to lengthen at least one runway at any of these, but political expediency and convenience is sometimes much more important than "normal" safety in the good old USA. If you don't believe me, read about what Chicago Mayor Richard Daley JR did in the middle of the night to permanently shutdown/destroy Meigs Field by downtown Chicago. As for questionable info given to pilots at another very small airport, one major airline decided, due to unreliable reports on runway de-icing treatment resulting in an incident, to avoid Traverse City, Michigan in the winter, or at least not use "mainline" equipment.

Not long ago at SAT/San Antonio, on a STAR for runway 12R, we figured out that the tailwinds reported on the ATIS did not sound right. When we asked the tower controller about it, they said that something was wrong with the equipment and then immediately were vectored southeast, in order to now land on runway 30L. Wind reports can be in error anywhere, with our new-fangled high tech equipment used by the tower controllers.:hmm:

[expedite_climb]

Flychicaga,

Can I ask - have you ever flown a 757-200, let alone a -300??

[dudly]

FLYCHICAGA

"We takeoff and land with tailwinds about 50% of the time."

Do you work for Southwest by chance? That is a figure that I have never heard from anyone.

"What I believe came into the factors here was that they landed a bit long and did not have use of the thrust reversers. But I am not going to speculate."

You just did speculate. By the way, since when have thrust reversers ever been used to certify an aircrafts ability to stop? I am sure someone will correct me, but isn't stopping distance based on brakes and spoilers without the use of reverse thrust. At least Boeing and Douglas uses that criteria.

" People look at it as if it is dangerous, however nothing is farther from the truth."

I don't know if people consider it dangerous or not, however it is looked at as extremely critical by knowledgeable people. There is a reason that operations were shifted to O'hare many years ago. I don't know if MDW is the most critical airport to fly large aircraft out of, but it is certainly one of the top 3 in the USA. The newer transport aircraft handle MDW very easily on landing if it is a nice dry pleasant day. Landing in the winter on ice and snow with gusting winds is another story. Landing one of the older generation transports like the 727-200 or 707 is quite frankly not the same thing. I still consider the hot summer day takeoff at max gross the critical maneuver out of MDW, there is simply nowhere to go if everything does not work properly. MDW is an airport that is completely unforgiving unless everything is working perfectly. Fortunately for most of our newer pilots that have only flown the newer generation aircraft, they are extremely reliable.

[expedite_climb]

Dudly you are quite correct, even max auto / man on the 757 is a deceleration rate, so the effect of using reverse is to lessen the wear / heat generated on the brakes.

[A310GUY]

Note on anti-skid brakes:

Aircraft making a full performance stop with the use of anti-skid brake systems usually leave skid marks. The hydraulic pressure is rapidly cycled to prevent the wheels from 'locking up'. Braking Coefficient of a locked wheel is less than that of a turning one. A turning wheel will still leave rubber behind if it is turning at a rate which is less than that required by the forward movement of the aircraft. Anti-lock brakes would be a better name. Examine photos from most runway excursion incidents and you will see skid marks. You may see 'chattering' of the marks which is another indication of system operation. If you see long spans of nothing it is because the pilot may have started to pump the brakes in a futile attempt to stop - or there was a system malfunction.
Try not to armchair quarterback on incident or accident too much before the official report and remember: Accidents are usually the result of more than one thing/ system malfunction (brakes, spoilers, reversers)/ unexpected wx / poor briefing / unexpected distractions / fatigue / etc etc..

[alf5071h]

Accident investigation statistics for runway excursion / overrun are characterised by several similarities, some of which may apply to this accident. Tailwinds and (wet) concrete runways.
It appears that the landing at Midway was on a dry runway; however, how often have pilots been caught out by a change in braking coefficient? The difference between a good ‘black top’ runway and a concrete surface could be 0.2 mu. The larger differences occur at higher speeds – note ground speed – tailwind landings. Tailwinds always reduce the safety margins; 150% landing distance factors are applied. A small change (5 kts) in a reported light tail wind could easily cause an aircraft, heavier than usual, to rapidly approach the limiting landing performance, Then of course the crews performance has to be considered; do they always land at the assumed touchdown point or use max braking …. ?
Are crews now over-familiar with the standard black top runways or the more recent high friction course (HFC) surfaces that they forget that there are still some poor runway surfaces out there? I have no recent knowledge of Midway, but on a wet day even with grooving, the reduction in mu could approach 0.4; maybe similar to the difference between good HFC and un-grooved concrete on a dry day. Then there is rubber or dust to add to the equation.
The other hazard with concrete is that with aging the blocks sink / settle in the centre enabling puddles of water to form. Similarly with the bitumen edges they can dam water puddles to an extent that a runway described as ‘wet with water patches’ should be treated as flooded.
Safe landings – into wind.