Phonetic Alphabet Question

[GT3]

Whilst trying to improve on perfection i was wondering how the letter P is pronounced?

is it pa - pa as it is spelt or par - par as a national airline pronounces it?

[Flap Speed]

.. probably depends on whether you went to Oxford or Cambrigde... Glass/Glarss... Class/Clarss... etc :rolleyes:

I use the phonetics in my professional capacity and have always used Pa Pa... though on an entirely different frequency to most of you chaps :)

Is there a definitive list/pronunciation table ???

[bagpuss lives]

Being an northern chappy it's definitely pA pA for me :)

[126,7]

I allways use:
Sahara
and
Unicorn
and have never been corrected by anybody??!!? :}

[Point Seven]

GT3

How many Rs are there in Papa? Ergo....


P7:ok:

[karrank]

I heard a station calling Singapore on HF one morning for a preflight check. After a suitable wait I intercepted him, and the conversation went something like this:

"Singapore Radio, Poppa Kilo Poppa Echo Poppa, plefright check 6556."

"Station calling Singapore this is Perth, readability 4, confirm callsign Pa-pah Kilo Pa-pah Echo Pa-pah."

"Negative Perth, this is Poppa Kilo Poppa Echo Poppa..."

[1261]

My [admittedly old] ITU book says:

P - PAPA - "pah-pah"

... but then it also says:

Q - QUEBEC - "keh-beck"

and how many folk say that?

[ModernDinosaur]

1261 has a copy of the ITU book! I wonder what it says for the pronunciation of 'F'... I hear "Fox" with no "trot" almost all the time these days, so much so that I now do it myself except on the initial call...

"So-and-so radar, Golf Charlie Delta Echo Foxtrot"

"Golf Echo Fox, so-and-so radar, pass your message"

"Golf Echo Fox is an aeroplane with two wings, currently flying through the sky, somewhere over England, quite low, routing directly in front of as many other aeroplanes as possible, request radar vectors towards other aircraft."

Since "Fox" is so common, and I certainly find it easier to say (does everybody?), how long before the Big Book gets updated. My guess is never :(

Cheers,

MD.

[Onan the Clumsy]

Q - QUEBEC - "keh-beck"

and how many folk say that?

Erm...:O

[DrSyn]

ModernDinosaur, I am sure your abbreviation of Foxtrot is in fairly common useage amongst most of us in the right situations. However, the book was already updated a few decades ago when the old Fox (with Able, Baker, Charlie, etc) was changed to its present form, back in the mid-'50s.

It works well on a clear VHF channel but the addition of the extra syllable was to distinguish it from (eg) Golf on a poor and barely intelligible HF freq. As the latter gives way to Sat-Data Com in the coming years, perhaps the phonetic will revert officially to just Fox, on the odd occasion that anyone actually performs air-ground verbal comms!

Meanwhile, one or two of us may continue to tease well-known senior members of the ATCO community with the occasional request for a confirmation the Queen Nan How, on first contact ;)

[av8boy]

... but then it also says:Q - QUEBEC - "keh-beck" and how many folk say that?

Me too. 27 years now if the math is right... :O

Dave

[Ayr_Man]

How infinitely BORING!!!!!!!!

[Zarg]

Is that a B for Bravo Boring? Or should it be B for Brah-voh Boring? :O :p

[Bern Oulli]

DrSyn. Not to mention the Fox Easy, assuming anyone still uses it.

[nz_phoenix]

I've always said PaPa because thats how I was taught (here in New Zealand).

Foxtrot is definitly better than just plain old Fox

[cossack]

Where you are nz_phoenix, E is Icko :D

[AirNoServicesAustralia]

Have to admit I say "Keh-Bec" and also was taught to say "Pa-Pa". As far as the "Fox" vs "Foxtrot" argument, I usually use Foxtrot as thats the way I was taught in Australia, but when I have FC201, FC301, FC501, and FC701 all on frequency at the same time, I do get lazy and call them Fox-Charlie. Shoot me!

[priscilla]

I learned to say only "fox " in French ATC school (year 1994!)
I think everybody say it like that here!
(yesterday I had a "Hector Lima " callsign :) )

[remedial boy]

Do those who attended Oxbridge use Michael instead of Mike?

:O :O

[WelshFlyer]

I always use "kwebeck" and I think that foxtrot is infinately better that "fox"

And i think that verbal communications will not be phased out - also that they won't use satilite comms, I belive they will use microwave digital transmissions in the 4-5 GHz band.

WF.

[pulse1]

Heard someone crossing the channel recently calling himself - golf pah pah per pah per pah. Reminded me of Ronnie Barker in Open All Hours.

[bookworm]

The UK RT Manual CAP 413 says pah-pah (i.e. emphasis on the second syllable). I imagine that is derived from the appropriate ICAO Annex but I don't know for sure.

[055166k]

From an ATC point of view I normally use the callsign phraseology used by the pilot .....it is the one he/she is most likely to respond to. Manuals are for guidance rather than blind obedience in every single case.

[iainpoll]

Off topic a bit, but do you know anyone who actually uses, 'tree' , or 'fife'? Let alone niner.;)

Me neither:p

[WelshFlyer]

Yes I do; I know quite a few who use "phonetic numbers" and use 'em myself.

WF.

[MadsDad]

Also off topic but... Local pub quiz, table round was to write out the phonetic alphabet.

One entry came in with 'M - Mayday'. :\

[WelshFlyer]

Good God!!!

In that case, I'd call mayday almost every time I go flying.:\
WF.

[1261]

Ah, but for purists "phonetic numbers" are unaone, bisotwo, terratree, etc......

[av8boy]

Manuals are for guidance rather than blind obedience in every single case. Except, of course, for the case in whch the manual says that manuals are for guidance only. THAT manual you'd follow with blind obedience, even though your blind obedience would indicate that you're only using that particular manual for guidance (which makes it OK I guess...), no? :hmm:

Dave:D

[DrSyn]

WelshFlyer, I too believe that verbal comms will remain in the future, but I can't see how on Earth (sic) ground-based microwave could replace satellites. They are both line-of-sight, but satellites hold the advantage of having a somewhat broader horizon. Two-thirds of our planet is covered by water and then quite some more by deserts of both hot and cold variety. The sats have a distinct advantage there.

The relatively small high-density population regions, TMAs and towers will most likely end up on microwave, but the vast majority of global airspace will need spacecraft for communication, be it verbal or datalink. These systems are already well advanced in development, used operationally by many, and have already been defined. It is now just a matter of when, rather than if, they become globally adopted, with economics and politics controlling the rate of adoption.

There is still plenty of time remaining, however, to hone those skills on NDBs, VORs and Tacans, and of course HF, V/UHF and the phonetic alphabet ;)

Just to keep it vaguely on topic, I tend to say Pa-Pah, Ke-bek ----- and Nine-er whenever comms or "local conditions" may be in doubt.

Sadly, Bern Oulli, Fox Easy is but a fond and distant memory for many of us, but also still surviving!

[WelshFlyer]

I didn't think of line - of -sight:( and I suoopse satelites are advanced - how many of us use GPS? (except me, I prefer MDR)

WF.

[LateLandingClearance]

do you know anyone who actually uses, 'tree'

We've got one!

Only to save him declaring everything to be free though :)

He has us rolling around whenever anyone is cleared to Ibifa :E

:) :) :)

[I'm not joking sir]

Late,

To be fair though, it could all go garretty if he didn't! ;) :D

[Blastoid]

AIP Australia lists "P" as pah - PAH, indicating a stress on the second syllable. That's how most of us pronounce it over here.

Personally tend to stick to the books on the use of language - mainly to be standard especially when it comes to international pilots. Nin-er, Fife, keh-beck etc. I think most who choose to deviate (e.g. Fox for Foxtrot) probably do it because they think it sounds cooler ... not really a time issue here!

But I stop short at "tree" - frequency transfers in our neck of the woods become more of a toungue twister if you do that. But like LateLandingClearance, we have the one who uses "tree".

[Scott Voigt]

Iainpol'

In the US there are quite a few controllers who use the fife and tree....

regards

Scott