737-700 for Rotorua??? Could it be DJ?

[Anti Skid On]

Just received the local council propoganda in the mailbox. For those outside the Bay of Plenty, there has been a bit of a war of words between NZRO (owners Rotorua City Council) and NZTG (ownerx - I believe - Western BOP council). Tauranga Airport is bigger, has more activity and is situated on prime development land. Rotorua by contrast is smaller, less active and for jets has a short pavement and awkward approach (lots of hills varying between 2000 and 3000, with the airport at nearly 1000). Environment BOP (the agency who look after the environment ;)) Have conducted a feasibility study into siting a new airport between both centres and calling it the BOP international airport - no problems with the short runway, frees up valuable land, etc.

Imagine my surprise today to read that the Rotorua council are claiming that an operator is going to be flying ROT - CHC and ROT - ZQN using a 737-700 and that there are in negotiations for a provider who will manage border control for Trans Tasman routes in the future. This got me thinking

a) Who operates 700's (I can only think of Virgin)
b) Who the hell will fly these routes (mainly tourists?)
c) Who would want to be a passenger on a 737-700 Trans-Tasman off a 1200m field (is this possible with a substantial passenger load - I think not)

Anyone heard anything, or is the council just trying to justify rates rises?:confused:

[pullock]

Do they already have a jazz festival?

If so it's time to promote a bigger airport for the place!!

When does the freight hub stard??

:ok: :ok:

[Eurocap]

Rotorua's runway has already suffered from numerous landings from Bae 146s and Boeing 737-200s. I can just imagine what it will be like after another heavier jet impacts with the marshy runway which was designed for F27s.

Lengthening the runway isn't going to solve the major problem at Rotorua, that is the low cloudbase, which occurs with the Northerly, so I guess Tauranga will get its fair share of Boeing arrivals and whoever is operating the aircraft will wonder why they didn't use Tauranga in the first place.

Also the prevailing crosswind could make for some interesting arrivals.

It seems that airlines will never learn. We keep reinventing the wheel and refusing to listen to historical advice. Say lar vee.

:sad: :{ :oh: :ouch:

[Suffering Sucataash]

Word is Qantas is definatly looking at 700's to replace the 300's.

You would probably expect Jet Connect to get them if they do come as their old clunkers should be retired sooner than later.

[CT7]

The option of an airport serving the 3 BOP areas (TG, RO & WK) is certainly not new. The two main centres have been tossing this one about since TG added to its runway and RO added to theirs.

The possibility of a 700 using them, who knows. There was talk of Qantas going into RO in Oct this year sometime.

TG has the runway (45m wide & NDB/DME) but possibly not the best terminal and the local port want the land for themselves, hence the idea of moving the airport...... whilst RO has the facilities and tourism but not the best runway (30m wide & VOR/DME).

What A/C type, remember you're dealing with non aviation folk and an 737 to them is the same as an Airbus!!!!!!

The opition of a regional airport at Paengaroa (?sp) could be a win/win. If there is such a thing???
Both cities are too small to throw massive amounts of $$$ each into a newer facility.

So if there was a new airport to be built, then expect to wait about a decade while the PC fraternity get things sorted!!

[nzer]

Quote -

"c) Who would want to be a passenger on a 737-700 Trans-Tasman off a 1200m field (is this possible with a substantial passenger load - I think not)"

I suggest you do a bit more study on that one!!!!! Sounds like a typical bugsmnasher pilot talking, with no knowledge of performance in general or the -700 in particular.

[Thump & Go]

Would be interested in hearing of those performance numbers nzer,-200s were tight &-300s didn't bother coming,I presume due to performance?RTOW?economics?

Rotovegas is out over 1500m these days isn't it?

Whilst paengaroa might be a great option for affected outside parties, the fact is each centre losing it's own airport would have significant economic effects on each region. TG Port authority would be a big winner,don't know that the other regions stand to gain too much?
WK-Paengaroa 40mins,RO 30mins,TG-25mins + job losses+vegas loses that direct link between tourist centres- ie Queenstown.
Anyway,it'll never happen 'cause as you say CT7 they'll have to get past the PC brigade first!

But,hey what would I know-I've got too much of that bugsmasher time in my book:( & my knowledge is lacking:p

[CT7]

Rotovegas could've extended their airport years ago but those who have flown in on R 19, will know the Marae there....
Well it was moved years ago from closer to the field.

Heaven (or maybe the Maori Mobster) only knows why it remained on the centre line......
(Maybe something to do with customary trout rights or swan shooting...????)

Also, in 1969 funds were put aside (1969!!!) to upgrade the airport to B737 standard!!! Way back then!!!

I think those funds went 50/50 to Govt and local council when the airports became privatised or something...???

So those in Rotovegas now have a nice library thanks to the flying frat!!!

[kiwilad]

b737-700 performance
got this from the boeing website. There graphs weren't that easy to read.
at 1000'amsl a 737-700 looks like it can carry about 122000lbs with the max around 154000 out of 1500m.
this could be wrong,
have heard that jetconnect might be going to take the 737-300 into rot later on in the year, will be interesting to see how they get on.

[Vmo248]

Just tried getting a Flight Sim 2004, 737-700 - endorsed by real 737-700 crews whatsmore - outta Rotorua. Even with the new scenery for the new extended runway, I ended up getting a big Maori welcome as I burst through the maraes front door! :{

Took my shoes off at least... :ok:

[Anti Skid On]

Thump and go - my point exactly, wouldn't want to be sat there as SLF, and I am only a bug smasher too.

A 737-700 would undoubtedly be able to get in and out, but with 150 punters and their kit (at a guess 17 tonnes +) and enough Jet A1 to get across the ditch, that would be pushing it.

The Jet Connect scenario of CHC and ZQN on less than full loads may be a goer (apparently the Japanese tourist don't like ATR's, or anything else with props).

CT7 - if it was Paengaroa (as was suggested) it gets foggy as hell too, especially late evening, still they could put a CAT 3 ILS in!! Would be a good gateway for Kiwi exports (the fruit, not people).

The plans for Vegas Airport are interesting to say the least. They intend to build a new terminal near the lake side, with this connected to the city via the proposed eastern motorway - except Transit has pulled the funding until 2010, by which time it may not be needed, especially if there is a new airport.

Eurocap - ah that crosswind - and that drizzle, and the updraft from the trees near the Marae (the one's that they won't allow to be chopped down) - all things to make life a little more interesting in a brown stain in the underpants sort of way.:D

[CT7]

Ah, those fogs, remember them well.
It wasn't the updrafts that used to get me, it was the tumbling winds off the eastern ridge in a S/Easterly....

Speaking of trees, are the local council still paying them $60,000 to "look after" them??? When the farmer on the ridge had his trees as firewood within 12 hrs of being made aware of the (flight path) problem.

[Eurocap]

As I said earlier the Airlines will try to reinvent the wheel, but alas, to their and ultimately the punters cost.
:sad: :sad: :sad:

[Lapsus linguae]

I did hear that NM were to get the 737. In fact training commenced some time ago. The -700 is more capable than the classic (oviously). See Aunty Trev. (alias the Soothsayer) you are getting jets. Over and out!!!

[Eurocap]

LL

What planet are you on.

Air NZ will never allow NM to have jets. Look at AirNZ's scope clause in their contract.

Maybe Freedom will do it.
:{ :{ :yuk:

[the maori mobster]

anti skins off

mate you are a far cry from making a splash with all of this.

try thinking up something that makes sense you knob......

i know who you are and will send the bro's from tg aerosexual club around to wax your arse.... cos i've heard it's bloody hairy...

[splatgothebugs]

Want more rumour????????

A very reliable source tells me that TG is upgrading it's RFS and with that will come the extra flights and also the councils approval for the upgrade of the terminal and apron.

;)

[Anti Skid On]

Read the first post (if you can manage that)

As a ratepayer of the fine metropolis that is Rotovegas the bit about 737-700's was straight out of the local free, in your mailbox, local council info., complete with the picture of Graeme Hall the mayor.

What exactly is it that you don't like? I asked the question who the hell was bringing a 737-700 into ROT, seeing as the council (in their newsletter) claimed that ZQN and CHC would be routes flown by jet from NZRO before Christmas. They (the council, not me) said they were in negotiations for someone to manage the border controls for trans-Tasman flights.

This is D & G rumours and news - you can call this a rumour but maybe if you read this (http://www.rdc.govt.nz/news+and+events/press+releases/$1.3m+upgrade+set+for+airport.asp) you'll see who is the one who sounds a knob.

Splatgothebugs - I've heard similar soundings, about TG getting ILS, partly due to all the high rise developments in and around TG. Also heard the beacon on top of the Mount is not going to be replaced as they think it is unlikely that CFIT will happen.

[Vmo248]

Who needs it? Its just a 900 foot bump! And no-one ever gets that low in the dark!

Believe drama is the cabling is old and "someone" won't allow it to be dug up to be replaced.

They cud simply replace it with a solar powered one a-la the lights in the harbour?! But then someone has to foot the bill!


And its not like anyone ever gets thaaat low at night!

:)

[Thump & Go]

Excuse my ignorance at the end of a long day bugsplattingman but what is RFS?:confused:

[CT7]

RFS = Rescue Fire Service
You know, those guys with the best Crew-Rooms!! (& Videos!)

One would expect that the Maori Mobster will be right behind the terminal upgrade & hopefully another 200m extension to the runway. (Yippee, I might get to fly into my home once again!!!)

It's his cuzzies that the tourists will be seeing (& paying) at Tamaki Tours. He might be able to afford that Harly now....... :p

Hills near airports, not lighted, hmmmmm
Like that solar idea. But far too practical and modern and PC to be of any use.... :D

[Vmo248]

'Tis a big PDF file to download...or be patient with if you wanna view online. But was found with google.

Graphs galore to pore over...

Graphs Galore! (http://www.boeing.com/assocproducts/aircompat/acaps/7376sec3.pdf)

Cudn't be beggared waiting for full DL yself so not sure if wringlet equipped -700 spec are here. Doc. from Dec 2001.

[Lapsus linguae]

Eurocap, thems the facts, it is true. I've seen the rating on the licence.

[the maori mobster]

Ah Bro....... caught me a Marlin with that one - didn't I anti smoke off!!!

If you read the article in the Vegas press then you would know who it was written by and his Actual knowledge behind it. It was the same article that came out about 4 months ago.

You then have to ask yourself why? Why have a bigger runway in RO? When all around the traps you hear about TG, WK and RO combining to give a regional one? ASk yourself that Smoke Anti sunscreen ON!!!

As for RFS in TG, about time, can you imagine the two old men of sunair trying to fight a fire. D would be saying "I wonder how much of the plane I could throw a bit of paint on and use again?"

[troppo]

think outside the square...
why dont they just bulldoze kawerau and extend the strip there...
its only claim to fame is being the drink drive capital of new zealand:}

[Thump & Go]

Thanks CT7,it all becomes clearer in the cold,hard light of morning:O

Ahh yes, troppo - Onepu International Airport - mind those smokestacks!!
Also the teenage pregnancy capital of NZ:ok:

Lapsus Language - do tell.What licence? You mean you,ve seen -700 on the ops specs or AOC? Where does this tie up with Qantarse/Air NZ deal/VB? What about Freedom, will NM compete with itself (after all Freedom is officially an subsiduary(sp) of NM) or are you saying Freedom will replace -300s with -700s?

[stillalbatross]

Thump and Go, not just the teenage pregnancy capital but, better still the Under 14 pregnancy capital too. Classy. Had a mate living there who got given ($1) the plot of land next door on the main street, owner couldn't be bothered paying rates and no-one wanted to buy it.

[troppo]

shheesh....i was born in kawerau...luckily i left...from all accounts id be a dad by now ;)

[the maori mobster]

hmmm

let me think (smoking away with my pipe)

doesn't an international runway to fly those big waka's have to be a certain width?

hmmm

does vegas qualify?

hmmm

could it support all these proposed idea's.

hmmm

does it still have problems getting the rights from the local bro's to dig up the northern end to lay the extension?

the answer to these very questions lies within each of us..... oh sh&t bin smoking too much w@@d

well - anti smelly on the answer is .....

thru the smoke signals....... (also a picture of a flying waka would be here but massey haven't shown me how to do that yet)

NO

go back to trying to fly and when you get a real life you'll understand that Massey trains people to think as well....

[troppo]

someone had a hard day at PD!

[splatgothebugs]

Anti skid

The ILS thing in TG is just a rumour, but the GPS approach is due shortly. As far as the port goes there is still talk going on about buying one of the VORs that airways are about to replace and putting it in TG.
Apparently it's around the $1mill mark to set one up which is spare change for a port which stands to make ten times that if it can put in another crane or two.

Will let all know when I hear :ok:

[CT7]

I didn't think Massey trained people. Just processed them!

And does anyone know how the 12 court cases against Massey Av turned out?

Oh, Uncle Koru will be flying into Rotovegas (full of tourists again) B4 Santa pays a visit.

[Colonel Blink]

Don't know about 700's, but Air NZ 300's supposedly flying CHC-ROT from December 1st (in todays NZ Herald)

[splatgothebugs]

Tauranga is about to upgrade it's RFS to grade 2 inside the next month.
As far as the RO 737, well I watch one do circuits there yesterday. I guess thats a start :)

[Vmo248]

Did it have a red tail with a big white rat? Word is they are starting a service out of a B.O.P airport around Xmas. :suspect:

[Steve76]

Where there is a will there will be a way.
The big issue is the demand for international flights to Rotovegas. Who wants to go to Tauranga??
Who knows where Tauranga is??
Vegas will eventually get the extension it needs and then the direct international flights. After 30 odd years of trying it is about time...

[splatgothebugs]

Na, it was zk NGA.

As far as RO goes they are going to need a little more than the extension they just put on to get 737-800 in and out of there with a good load.

I would be happy to put a bet on it that as soon as the rescue fire is upgraded you will see TG with an increased amount of traffic. Not to mention that the terminal will also be looking good by the end of the year, RO will not look good to anybody. Not that it even looks good at the moment. :D :E

[BCF Breath]

I think you'll find there is a huge re-vamp in store for Rotorua Airport. Just look at the surrounds... changed a bit in the last few years. The Local Council (whilst not super intelligent) know that the airport needs work and know that it's the gateway to the BoP for tourists.

TGA just stays with the turbo-props, or maybe the odd 737 that misses at Vegas.

And why would you want to fly directly into TGA from international destinations? What's there?
It's so close to AKL!

[Thump & Go]

It's so close to AKL!

Ummm, that would make Rotorua a great distance from AKL?:ok:

Stop inhaling BCF!!!;)

[BCF Breath]

Which is why you fly to Rotorua and by land to TGA.
Still, there is nothing to fly to TGA for....

And we're talking domestic flights here. Why fly international direct to TGA?

[splatgothebugs]

Sorry I must be mistaking RO for somewhere else. The last time I was there it stunk, it has one of the highest gang activity rates in NZ and the airport charges ypu $5 to get out the door. Most of which goes to the local iwi :)

Now TG one of the biggest property booms in NZ is happening, good fishing, swimming, diving, cafes (also NZ best resturant) and a very long runway.

HMMMMMMMMM wonder where I would like to go. ;)

[Anti Skid On]

Unlike AKL who charge you $24 (OK that is for long haul). The $5 is a bit of a joke. A local councillor told me that it cost i.r.o. $2 to collect each $5 - they asked Air NZ to add it to the fare and their response was that they were not the IRD (interestingly PN also charges a tax, and they are owned by the same company)

The smell - not where I live, and in town only in selected areas.

The gangs - no worse than AKL, Palmerston North, Gisborne or anywhere else.

True TG is experiencing a property boom (and the new subdivision from Pyes Pa to Welcome bay is 2500 HA, which equals about 5000 2 acre sections, 2 school, an 100 acre reserve and 25000 people). But (and it is a but) the RO thing is so long haul can come in (well trans Tasman) and direct jet ops from Queenstown (so that the Asian tourists don't have to put up with those scary turboprops). Lots of tourists arrive in TG by cruise liner, and what do they do - get on a coach and come to Vegas!

The whole Paengaroa International thing makes sense (it is fairly equidistant) and Paengaroa is estimated to have 25000 by 2050 (as opposed to about 1000 now), but it'll never happen.

Likewise I have heard it said that Taupo is more strategically positioned to develop. They have a smart council that is eroding Rotorua's tourism, developing their own. they are reasonably close to the snow (another selling point for trans Tasman tourists) and have no Iwi conditions to conted with (and no trees to chop down).

[Vmo248]

True story! (Which is cause to doubt it right away!)

When the TGA District Council "put to public consultation" extending the seal, one of the complaints that got far too much serious press/radio time, was from a group of residents who were kind of on the extended c/l of 25. They were concerned that jets trails and fuel trails(?!) would "damage their gardens"! :hmm:

There's one guy in the marina (just to left of finals for 07) who complained that the 1900D's - which do leave a definite trail behind them - was blackening his sail and boat deck!

Granted the marina is about 1/2nm from runway end, but when launchng off 25 the bloody 1900 is at about 1500 feet as it passes o/hd! :) Well okay 1400... :ok:

[FU24-950M]

Piddle,piddle,piddle.

What sh!t you dribble.
Small peas for small boys
Where do you piddle
In the house of small toys.

Your dribble is an embarrasment to all who hail from godzone.
:yuk:

[Thump & Go]

Ouch, bad day at the office?:ouch:

[splatgothebugs]

Ouch FU24, seems we can't even have a good debate these days without somebody getting snarky.

Unfortunatly the major problem with Paengaroa is that where they would like to put it is owned by a local cocky who will not sell. Apart from that the area around the proposed site has sloping terrain and also has a fog problem.

GOOOOOO TG INTERNATIONAL :D

[somyungi]

Vegas International sounds good with 737's an alll, but when traveling i cant help but notice dat the 19 seater has to go via Taupo to fill da damn fing up.

[Anti Skid On]

Try booking a seat online on Air NZ and see how you get on. The Taupo bit was done to appease Taupo council when they reduced the frequency when they chaged from the Banderiantes. The other day (Last Friday I think) I counted 17 SLF on the 3pm arrival, which is usually the quietest flight inbound. 90% occupancy is something most ops would be happy with.

[somyungi]

need more than 17 to fill a 737

[Colonel Blink]

You don't say - seeing as the the 737 won't be doing AKL-ROT that discussion is irrelevant! The 733 will be doing ZQN-CHC-ROT and will not do be full of Japanese and Korean tourists.

Also the issue is when will it (ROT) be able handle longer distances (e.g. have more seal put down!)

[BCF Breath]

Not too sure if the 737 is going to be doing the QN-CH trip. The ATR's pulled off the CH-RO sectors are doing that.

And the CH-RO-CH is till May only apparently....