Lakenheath working too hard?

[tmmorris]

I'm a PPL/IMC holder with around 110 hours total experience - so still definitely a rookie. Last Wednesday I flew from Old Buckenham in Norfolk (EGSV) to Oxford/Kidlington (EGTK) around 1300Z, planning to route via Wyton and DTY. There's a danger area (D208) on this track, so after departure from Old Buckenham I called up Lakenheath, who are listed in the AIP as the DAAIS provider. Conversation went something like this:

Me: Lakenheath Approach, G-XXXX
Lakenheath: endless instructions to military aircraft inbound, not even pausing for breath
Me: ditto (circling over a disused airfield while I wait)
L: ditto
Me: ditto
L, at last: G-XXXX, stand by.

The controller was working absolutely flat out. She didn't pause for breath (I couldn't hear the replies because I was only listening on VHF) and never called me back. As I didn't know whether D208 was active I routed to the south of it, over the top of the MATZ at 3200 on the Old Buckenham QNH (actual height above Lakenheath unknown as I couldn't get a QFE from her...), squawking 7000 but no Mode C, so she won't have known my altitude. When I got to the far edge of the MATZ I gave up on her:

Me: G-XXXX, request change to Wyton approach on xxx.xx.
L: station calling, FIS terminated, squawk 7000, good day.

Two questions:

(1) did I do the right thing, or should I have called London Info for the DAAIS?
(2) was she as overloaded as she sounded? For example, she didn't seem to know about my existence so was not in a position to offer an alerting service, which she surely is bound to do by law?
(3) would it be helpful to raise an MOR? I don't in any way blame the controller: but someone should have forseen that her workload would be too great.

Tim Morris

[whowhenwhy]

LKH do not actually form part of the LARS unit chain, although they are happy to work anything that is coming their way! If you were unable to get through to them then your best bet is to either a) do what everyone else does in East Anglia and call Norwich on 119x35 or b) call the guys with the LARS commitment ie Coltishall or further south Wattisham (sorry don't know there VHF freqs) they'd even be able to hand you over to LKH. They would also be able to tell you if STANTA was hot above 2500' (which it wasn't).

I wouldn't MOR LKH it's not really their fault that they were busy. They do have a LOT of aircraft in and out of MLD (which they provide radar services for) and LKH and it sounds like the controller may have had VHF and UHF freqs bandboxed maybe??

Personally as a mil controller I wouldn't have expected you to orbit and wait for me to talk to you, but if you wanted to win serious brownie points it would have been an idea to give their CMATZ a wider berth, especially if they were that busy with inbounds and outbounds. Yes I know that civ pilots only have to recognize the ATZ and avoid that, however, if you try and stop a C17 with a PA-31 (or whatever) then ....Besides our American cousins will only suspect you of being an Al Qaeda terrorist!:ok:

[niknak]

TM - Calling Lakenheath was the right thing to do, even though, as has been pointed out, they are not a LARS provder.
A quick call to us at Norwich on departure though, just to check the height status of D208 would have been the right thing to do, it occassionally goes from the permanant 2500ft to 7500ft without too much notice, and we always know when the changes occur.
We would have provided you with an FIS, but not not much more due to our own traffic levels, I doubt that Coltishall would have be able to proffer much more, and realistcally I don't think Wattisham would have been able to give you a service.

As for the service from Lakenheath, yes they are busy with their own aircraft - which take priority when it comes to providing a service - but their current staffing levels aren't as high as they should be, which is why it's very rare for them to reply on VHF at the weekends.
Personally, I wouldn't have expected you to orbit, just continue on your intended track using common sense and good airmanship.

My advice would be if the circumstances are repeated, to do as suggested and call Lakenheath every 5 miles or so, until you either get a service or it's obvious they can't offer you one.

I dont think an MOR would help, from an atco's viewpoint traffic levels can go from nothing to full capacity very quickly, and in that event, we use a priority system to provide the most efficiant and expeditious service according to the facilities and type of services which we are offering to other aircraft at the time.

[tmmorris]

Thanks both - I think I was taking too literal an interpretation of the fact that LKH were listed as DAAIS providers, and obviously should have asked someone else. Didn't want to go higher than 3200 as I didn't want to go into IMC (see below)...

I'm a bit concerned if both LARS units would have been too busy, though, as I made most of the journey to Old Buck. IFR in IMC - only going visual as I passed overhead Cranfield. As it was I got a radar service from Brize until QSYing to Cranfield, so was OK, but would have been hoping for a radar service from Wattisham or Coltishall after that... Do LARS units prioritize aircraft in IMC outside CAS?

Tim

[vintage ATCO]

Do LARS units prioritize aircraft in IMC outside CAS?
No, individual controllers may.

Do remember that LARS and even radar services from non-LARS units is usually a secondary task to a controllers primary one which is providing a radar service to aircraft inbound and outbound to that particular airfield. Even though they are 'there' they may be too busy to do it.

Lakenheath is not a designated LARS unit and you heard yourself that the controller was busy providing a service to LKH/MLD ins and outs.

VA

[SirToppamHat]

At least one of the LK Sqns (and I suspect more than one of them) has been having 'Surge Days' recently. This seems to means that they attempt to launch as many of their ac as posible (up to 60 I was told!) at the same time, or at least close together.

This is a great trick, but the local ATC must be working like one-armed paper hangers (I take my hat off to 'em), especially when they all come back together.

When you take into acount the Mildenhall traffic, I can see how they wouldn't have the capacity to deal with (no offence) lower-priority traffic.

Good to see you're at least trying to participate!

Why no Mode C?

:confused:

[tmmorris]

I do know LKH isn't a LARS unit, before anyone else points that out! I called them because I wanted DAAIS for D208, rather than LARS.

Yes, that kind of 'surge day' fits what I was hearing, which did indeed sound like an entire squadron or two trying to come in at the same time.

Mode C doesn't work in the plane I usually fly (placarded 'NO ALT INFO' and Brize confirmed no readout when I asked), like 90% of the rented planes I've come across. The only recent exception was the one I did my IMC rating training in. I guess what happens is that when it fails, it's not a priority for cash-strapped flying schools to get fixed, since it's not mandatory. I agree that's daft: I think we should have a system like they have in the US, with a Mode C 'veil' around major hubs to help prevent airspace busts. Needless to say the standard of avionics in rented planes in the US seems much higher.

Tim

[RodgerF]

tm

Its not that 'its not fixed', its just not there. If the aircraft doesn't have an encoding altimeter installed, then mode A is all you get. The placard is there to tell you that.

[desked atco]

Tim,

Why didnt you try to call Marham for LARS? I havent finished my PPL yet but there is no way that I would fly directly overhead a military base just above the MATZ without talking to the unit. I know that it is Class G airspace but I wouldnt fancy an F15 climbing in full burner across my nose!

Good to see some PPLs asking for advice on the forum

[Spitoon]

Roger, in my experience it's quite common for non-mandatory equipment in light aircraft to be left broken to save a bit of money. In practice not fixing it or taking it out and putting in a placard has much the same effect!!

[tmmorris]

Two issues have got confused here.

I didn't call Marham for LARS because I was transitting above Lakenheath, not Marham. I wanted (a) DAAIS for D208; (b) FIS from Lakenheath, and failing that at least a listening watch on Lakenheath, so I was aware of traffic. A RIS from Marham would have given me so many conflicts, especially as I had no Mode C, that it would not have made life any easier.

The bit about LARS was a reply to a comment that LARS units are often too busy to provide a radar service - and I don't like flying in IMC without, so am a bit concerned if that is often the case. I find Brize generally brilliant, but for longer trips I obviously need to use other LARS units...

Tim

[whowhenwhy]

Tim some questions for you. If you were flying IFR in solid IMC why would you want a FIS from LKH? All they would do is give you their QNH and ask you to report going en-route. No traffic info would have been past. Why would you have got a RIS from Marham, if you only wanted a FIS from LKH? If you wanted a FIS from Marham that's what you'd have got. They'd have supplied you with details on STANTA and as I said earlier could have handed you to LKH, especially if you'd said that you were IMC. Besides, yes if you were in receipt of a RIS or RAS in that area then you would expect to receive a lot of traffic calls. However, you as captain are responsible for your own separation, even under RAS, and all avoiding action turns provided are advisory. You don't have to take them, you just have to tell air traffic if you're not taking the turn. For me as an ATCO though one thing worries me. The idea of you flying under a FIS (if you'd got one), in solid IMC, over LKH/MLDs radar pattern with lots of whizzy things going past without you knowing about it. Sorry, just sounds a tad dangereux to moi!

[tmmorris]

As I said, there are two confused issues here; they should have been two threads.

I was not IMC over LKH, though I did have to stay as low over the MATZ as I did in order to stay VMC. Hence I wouldn't have wanted a RIS from Marham, only a FIS, and as you rightly say, but I didn't think about at the time, they would have known what was going on at STANTA.

However, it was Niknak's comment that 'We would have provided you with an FIS, but not not much more due to our own traffic levels, I doubt that Coltishall would have be able to proffer much more, and realistcally I don't think Wattisham would have been able to give you a service' that led to a dubiously related diversion about the level of service available from LARS units to aircraft in IMC but outside CAS. Red herring as far as LKH was concerned.

Hope that's all clearer now...

Tim

[whowhenwhy]

Completely cloudy beer! One thing of future use for you though Tim. Nch would probably only have offered you a FIS (traffic dependent) because with the greatest of respect to the short-trousered one and the rest of the guys and gals they've got better things to do than talk to transit traffic when they're not the 'official' LARS provider. Colt would have been able to give you any kind of service you wanted, zone only sees a couple of north sea heli's an hour!
Regards

[niknak]

On the other hand Tim, you could have squawked 7000, talked to no one until within the cover of Brize Radar and no one would have been any the wiser. ;)

Perhaps I could amplify my earlier remarks (none of which are a critisim of you and what you did);

1) We (NWI) would probably have provided you with a RIS if you'd called and explained the situation, at least if Lakenheath had seen an aircraft on one of our squawks they would have either coordinated with us or avoided it completely.
2) At the southern edge of D208 you're on the edge of the LARS coverage of Coltishall, and despite WWW's inane comments, the zone is combined with a UHF commitment, and this makes them busy little soldiers.
3) Although you would have been within the notified LARS coverage of Wattisham, you wouldn't have been for very long, hence my comments.

Your flight path was in one of the many of the UK's "grey areas" - surrounded by airfields with no one to get a proper service from, you had difficult choices to make not being familiar and all that, but I hope this helps if we haven't put you off from ever coming back to Norfolk.

[tmmorris]

Hasn't at all put me off, thanks Niknak - next time I'll know to give you a try. Obviously I was trying to avoid the Squawk 7000 (if at all!) and creep past unobtrusively option...

Maybe next time I'll actually come to Norwich.

Tim

[Vlax]

Cambridge would have talked to you!
FIS only, but on some days u may get a RIS!!!
:ok:

I think I would have re-routed round.
If you had done the same thing on one of the last 2 days I believe you would have been looked at by a pair of F15's.:ugh:

When I've ever talked to Lakenheath I always had a very good service:D

Try them agian next time!

MOR not a good thing:uhoh:

[LXGB]

Hiya Niknak,
Wattisham isn't a LARS unit, but they'll give a service to anyone who calls on 125.8 though. :ok:

Cheers,
LXGB