KLM 747

[downfourgreen]

Hello everyone,
Tell me folks, I saw this picture http://www.airliners.net/open.file/408706/L/ and I'm curious because this 747 is described as a -200 model. Does anybody know if KLM modified some 747-200 and stretched its upper deck?
Many thanks.

[BAe 146-100]

Hi,

downfourgreen, all KLM 747-200's are SUD - Streched Upper Deck variants.

http://www.xs4all.nl/~rooza/Dutch/KLM%20B747-200.jpg

BAe 146-100

[Notso Fantastic]

Isn't it a 747-300 model? Superficially looks like a 400, but without the winglets, enlarged span and wing root fairings. Still has the old flight deck and Flight Engineers position of the 100/200 versions.

[BAe 146-100]

Hi,

Notso Fantastic, KLM states them as 747-300's but they were originally 747-200 variants. They don't have the normal 747-100/200/300 flight deck. KLM upgraded the flight deck on all of their 747 classic models a few years ago. As seen on this (http://www.airliners.net/open.file/254155/M/) picture.

BAe 146-100

[gas path]

Notice also the lack of a door 3 over the wing. Wasn't there a thread around here recently about locked out overwing doors?
BTW that looks like a standard 'classic' flt. deck to me.
Except maybe for the ADI that maybe an CRT/LCD??

[BAe 146-100]

Hi,

So 747 classic non-upgraded flight deck's have FMC's and EADI's? Even if you look at the engine gauges they are not the traditional 747-200/300 style.

BTW you have just edited your post ;)

BAe 146-100 :)

[Notso Fantastic]

Right....let's get this sorted. The F/D picture is probably a 300, which is virtually a standard 200 F/D. Carousel INSs were replaced with FMS sets on the vast majority of 100/200 variants- in our case roundabout early 80s. The 300 had slightly upgraded avionics, more superficial than anything else, over the 200. The 300 still had a Flight Engineer position and panel- in all respects it was a 100/200 slightly upgraded. The picture is a standard Classic Jumbo fit with strip instruments which were an option from the early 70s. The 400 was the first version to have 6' winglets, a slightly increased wingspan (I think 6' a side) and the attractive blended wingroot fairing. This is not a 400, it's a 300 with a F/E position and no winglets or wing root fairing.
If it looks like a duck, and it quacks like a duck.....it's a duck. This is a 300!

[Golf Charlie Charlie]

I always thought the 747-200SUD was an original 747-200 airframe converted with a stretched upper deck like that of the 747-300. It is not a new-build 747-300 airframe. Don't know about flightdecks. KLM had/have the most -200SUDs, but some are also operated by Japan Air Lines and by Air France (inherited from UTA).

[BAe 146-100]

Hi,

Golf Charlie Charlie, you are totally right :ok:.

BAe 146-100

[seat 0A]

Hi guys,

I have to be careful here, since I never flew the classic, but I do work for KLM. KLM used to own some -200`s and converted them all to SUD`s. However all the old -200 have been sold some years ago already. Since this picture is rather new (taxiing to the new rwy 18L) I have to assume this is a "real" -300.
The flightdecks were rebuild about 2years ago (smart move, eh?, they`ve phased them out now!). I believe KLM had an avionics upgrade done at Boeing, including GPS etc.etc. Makes them very hard to sell now, since we`re the only ones having done this particular upgrade. Isn`t politics a beautiful thing?

[ATN]

Hi gents,

Are the winglets the only way to tell a -400 from the previous versions ? I read somewhere that JAL or ANA operate -400s without winglets on high density/short legs.

ATN

[Flap Sup]

ATN,

744s are operated in Japan as 744Dmodels, as far as I remember, its not just without the winglets, but with the -200 wing. Due to the short legs the are operated on, the do not need the extra wing/weight, as its apparantly even more fuelconsuming on short sectors.

FS

[BAe 146-100]

Hi,

This is the picture of the 747-400D.

http://www.asahi-net.or.jp/~HK8Y-TKUC/JA8956.JPG

BAe 146-100

[evolante]

KLM in fact have 747-200, -300 and -400. The registrations of the -200 & -300 are as follows:-

B747-200 PH - BUK, -BUM, BUN, BUL, BUT

B747-300 PH- BUU, BUV & BUW

:ok:

[BAe 146-100]

Hi,

What routes do KLM operate the 747-200/300 on (except from America)?

BAe 146-100

[Otterman]

Flew this wonderful aircraft for KLM for fifteen years, now on the Boeing 767-300ER. Evolante is right in his breakdown of the different versions. We also had the first stretched upper-deck freighters, the PH-BUH, and PH-BUI. The “H” was sold to Martinair Holland back in May, 2003, and the “I” was just sold to Southern Air Transport, along with PH-BUL for spare parts. All the Boeing 747-200SUD/300 will have left the KLM fleet at the end of November. They will be replaced by Boeing 777-200ER, and one more Boeing 747-400 freighters at least (we have two so far).

Only three Boeing 747-200SUD/300 that we operated were full pax configured the rest were Combi’s.

The cockpit upgrade actually was done in concert with Canadian Marconi (I believe BAE now owns them). The project was started to replace the maintenance intensive engine tape instruments, and the Delco INS’s. It took a lot of time to get the Supplemental Type Certificate (two years longer than planned), and for the last three years of the aircrafts time we flew with the upgrade. I am sure that the long certification period had nothing to do with the fact that we choose the Canadian solution rather than the Boeing solution (at twice the price).

After the upgrade, our primary navigation was triple GPS, we also had triple IRS, as backup and to power the ADI’s and some additional systems. It also contained three FMC computers and three full color CDU’s. The HSI and ADI were replaced by EFIS LCD displays. It was a solid line-up giving us incredible accuracy and reliability.

In my years there wasn’t a continent we didn’t fly to with the Classics. The last few years we concentrated on North America, India, Carribean. And the freighters did a lot of work to Asia and the middle east.

These aircraft were incredible workhorses and my close to 10,000 hours on them will always be a cherished memory. The 767 isn’t bad though.

Regards, O.
:ok:

[BAe 146-100]

Hi,

Otterman, do the 747-200SUD/300 operate to any destinations in Africa?

BAe 146-100

[Otterman]

There are only two set destinations left for the remaining Boeing 747-200SUD/300's. I believe there are only three of four still in the rotation. Two for the daily flights and one or two reserve for the remaining ICA fleet. Chicago, Delhi are those destinations. It does a few flights a week to the odd place like New York, or Toronto to replace other equipment. Last flight end of November a return from Chicago, and 32 years of Classic flying will end at KLM.

West and East Africa flying is split between the Boeing 767-300ER and the Boeing MD-11. South Africa is done by the Boeing 747-400 and beginning late October the Boeing 777-200ER will start up to Cape town.

[BAe 146-100]

Hi,

Thanks Otterman :ok:.

BAe 146-100