EasyBlair

[newswatcher]

No 10 has announced that family Blair will be travelling to Nice on Easyjet next month, for a holiday.

Too much to hope that they will have to book-in with the rest of the pax!

[brabazon]

Is his personal (sorry the Queen's Flight) 146 not available?

I wonder if he booked on the Internet to get his £5 saving? Will the Airline TV crew be there to witness the Blair family checking in, being handed their numbered boarding passes (numbers 10, 11 etc?) and then joining the general public in waiting for their aircraft to leave on time? Will the Blairs come with pre-packed sandwiches and drinks to save paying the high prices on-board?

I once was on the same flight as Neil Kinnock (while he was EC Transport Commissioner) going from LHR to BRU - he and his wife had been delayed on the M4 and had missed their booked flight so instead they were down the back of a Virgin Express 737 (operating for Sabenaa). He seemed to take the experience quite well, but you could tell he wished that they were in front of the curtain.

[ 19 July 2001: Message edited by: brabazon ]

[KERDUNKER]

Followed the Royal 146 into Florence last year where the Blairs had been invited for a free two week holiday. Read in paper same day that Royal household had recieved a lecture re cutting back on personel junkets.(146 came back two weeks later to take the new royal family to Paris for a long weekend)

[t'aint natural]

This is peevish and pathetic. The British Prime Minister, whomever he or she is, represents the country whether on official business or not. IMHO this carping about minuscule savings is childish, bumptious nonsense. How many of you complainants raised a peep when Alan Clarke, as a junior defence minister, demanded and got a VC10 for jollies to the Gulf?

[Unwell_Raptor]

I couldn't agree more. It is only the carping of the Press that has prompted this kind of meaningless gesture. How many editors fly economy? Every major paper's editor gets a better car, more money, and better perks than the PM.

Our PM, from whichever party, should fly in a style that reflects well on the world's fourth-largest economy.

And, since we are also a nuclear power, what about the command-and-control while he is a guest of Stelios?

[jumpseater]

Raptor, I think command and control would go to 2 jags!, bet that makes you feel nice and safe then!

[mainfrog2]

t'aint natural, Britain is still a monarchy, the Queen represents the country, Tony represents the countries Government (I think?)

[Aaron G. Stryngge]

If command and control passes to Johnny 2Jags if anything happens to Blair, then I think the PM ought to have a 146 with doctor on board, and a full fighter escort...

[foghorn]

So are we saying that Blair should travel Easyjet on all official business like the upcoming G8 summit at Genoa?

Why stop there? Why not let the Prime Ministerial travel contract go to the lowest bidder? We could hire that old Aztec that's on its last legs at the back of the flying club. After all Tone's only Prime Minister so he's not really representing the country.

I can just see the ramp at Genoa... the aircraft of the leaders of the World's largest economies lined up in order of size...

Number 1, Air Force One, Boeing 747-400
Number 2, Japan One, Boeing 747
Number 3, Germany One, Airbus A330
Number 4, G-ABCD, Piper PA23-250 "sorry Prime Minister, you can only bring 30lbs of baggage or we can't go full tanks...."

A great flag-flying exercise that would be.

Methinks some people in the press are letting their political views override rational thought here. Yes, we are a constitutional monarchy. That makes Blair, as Prime Minister our senior politicial decision-maker (however couched in the terms of 'advising the Monarch' that his job definition is). This means that he represents the country all the time, whether he is on official business or not, and therefore should travel in a style that befits his role and the size and importance of Britain on the world stage.

[ 20 July 2001: Message edited by: foghorn ]

[CR2]

Think AirForce 1 is a -200.
I've seen the Japanese -400s a couple of times. Don't they always bring both of them, "just to make sure"?

[Kerosene Kraut]

Foghorn, just a minor remark: "Germany One" is an Airbus A310-300, recycled from former east German "Interflug." No A330s with Luftwaffe yet.
Similar debate in Germany about the Luftwaffe's "Flugbereitschaft" and its high cost. Most of the time the chancellor uses a "personal" challenger. Might be his choice for Genova as well.

[TimS]

I'll think you will find that 'Air Force One' is any aircraft that the President of the United States of America is travelling on rather than a specific airframe.

i.e If he used their Aztec it would become 'Air Force One' for the day.

I hope so, otherwise I have been setting my favourite pub quizz question wrong for the last few years !!

I am also pretty certain that the fleet took at least one 400 a few years back.

[ 20 July 2001: Message edited by: TimS ]

[TimS]

Well according to this I was part right (but no sign of the 400) ....

Mission
The mission of the VC-25A aircraft -- Air Force One -- is to provide air transport for the president of the United States.

Features
The presidential air transport fleet consists of two specially configured Boeing 747-200B's -- tail numbers 28000 and 29000 -- with the Air Force designation VC-25A. When the president is aboard either aircraft, or any Air Force aircraft, the radio call sign is "Air Force One."

Principal differences between the VC-25A and the standard Boeing 747, other than the number of passengers carried, are the electronic and communications equipment aboard Air Force One, its interior configuration and furnishings, self-contained baggage loader, front and aft air-stairs, and the capability for in-flight refueling.

Accommodations for the president include an executive suite consisting of a stateroom (with dressing room, lavatory and shower) and the president's office. A conference/dining room is also available for the president, his family and staff. Other separate accommodations are provided for guests, senior staff, Secret Service and security personnel, and the news media.

Two galleys provide up to 100 meals at one sitting. Six passenger lavatories, including disabled access facilities, are provided as well as a rest area and mini-galley for the aircrew. The VC-25A also has a compartment outfitted with medical equipment and supplies for minor medical emergencies.

These aircraft are flown by the presidential aircrew, maintained by the Presidential Maintenance Branch, and are assigned to Air Mobility Command's 89th Airlift Wing, Andrews Air Force Base, Md.

Background
Presidential air transport began in 1944 when a C-54 -- the "Sacred Cow" -- was put into service for President Franklin D. Roosevelt. Then came the "Independence," a DC-6 (Liftmaster), which transported President Harry S. Truman during the period 1947 to 1953. President Dwight D. Eisenhower traveled aboard the "Columbine II" and "Columbine III" from 1953 to 1961. While the call sign "Air Force One" was first used in the 50s, President Kennedy's VC-137 (Boeing 737) was the first aircraft to be popularly known as "Air Force One."

In 1962, a C-137C specifically purchased for use as Air Force One, entered into service with the tail number 26000. It is perhaps the most widely known and most historically significant presidential aircraft. Tail number 26000 is the aircraft that carried President Kennedy to Dallas, Nov. 22, 1963, and returned the body to Washington, D.C., following his assassination. Lyndon B. Johnson was sworn into office as the 36th president on board the aircraft at Love Field in Dallas. This fateful aircraft also was used to return President Johnson's body to Texas following his state funeral Jan. 24, 1973.

In 1972 President Richard M. Nixon made historic visits aboard 26000 to the People's Republic of China in February and to the former Union of Soviet Socialist Republics in May. Tail number 27000 replaced 26000 and carved its own history when it was used to fly Presidents Nixon, Ford and Carter to Cairo, Egypt, Oct. 19, 1981, to represent the United States at the funeral of Egyptian President Anwar Sadat.

Tail number 26000 was retired May 1998, and is on display at the U.S. Air Force Museum, Wright-Patterson AFB, Ohio.

The first VC-25A -- tail number 28000 -- flew as "Air Force One" on Sept. 6, 1990, when it transported President George Bush to Kansas, Florida and back to Washington, D.C. A second VC-25A, tail number 29000 transported Presidents Clinton, Carter and Bush to Israel for the funeral of Prime Minister Yitzhak Rabin. The VC-25A will usher presidential travel into the 21st century, upholding the proud tradition and distinction of being known as "Air Force One."

General Characteristics
Primary Function: Presidential air transport
Contractor: Boeing Airplane Co.
Power Plant: Four General Electric CF6-80C2B1 jet engines
Thrust: 56,700 pounds, each engine
Length: 231 feet, 10 inches (70.7 meters)
Height: 63 feet, 5 inches (19.3 meters)
Wingspan: 195 feet, 8 inches (59.6 meters)
Speed: 630 miles per hour (Mach 0.92)
Ceiling: 45,100 feet (13,746 meters)
Maximum Takeoff Weight: 833,000 pounds (374,850 kilograms)
Range: 7,800 statute miles (6,800 nautical miles) (12,550 kilometers)
Crew: 26 (passenger/crew capacity: 102)
Introduction Date: Dec. 8, 1990 (No. 28000); Dec. 23, 1990 (No. 29000)
Date Deployed: Sept. 6, 1990 (No. 28000); Mar. 26, 1991 (No. 29000)
Inventory: Active force, 2; ANG, 0; Reserve, 0

Point of Contact
Air Mobility Command, Public Affairs Office; 503 J Street, Suite 214; Scott AFB, IL 62225-5335; DSN 576-5003 or (618) 256-5003.

[foghorn]

Thanks for the corrections guys... I also think that the US have had a -400 in their fleet for a while now. Unfortunately I don't know the registration numbers of the foreign VIP transports so had to give the callsigns instead :o

KK - I was trying to remember what flavour of 'bus Germany used... thanks. Interestingly enough for us Brits, the German Chancellor is the equivalent of Blair in their non-excutive republic (ie. senior politician rather than head of state). Germany is slightly larger in population and economy to Britain, but not too dissimilar - they're the world's #3 economoy, we're #4. So why do our papers moan about Blair using a 146 when the Chancellor of Germany also has a large Bizjet based on an RJ at his disposal?

[Wycombe]

TimS,

Yes, AirForce 1 could also be a Gulfstream, or a C9, but on international trips is normally one of the (heavily modified) 2 747-200's.

Yes, the Japanese have 2 -400's (nearly always to be seen together). The Sultan of Brunei also has one (recently seen gracing the concrete at that famous Oxon airbase where everything seems to be happening at the moment!)

For the trip to Genoa today, what is Tony using?

1. A small 4 engined jet from Northolt?
2. A larger (and much more noisy!) 4 engined jet from the above-mentioned Base ("Beags" finest)?
3. A loaner from BA?
4. Or is he hitching a ride in AF1?

What he should be doing is taking G-BOAF for another test run, as a statement of confidence in the Conc!!

[RVR800]

Blair Cant Win

Queens Flight => Scandalous waste of public money

Easy jet => Parlous state of our public services (RAF)

Tabloid Press is responsible with their
reactionary irresponsible thoughtless
cr@p

Of course he should go by the Queens
Flight not least because of the
security implications.

Good PR for Stelios though !!...

[stagger]

I had a nose around on the web and found out this…

Apparently the USAF has 7 Boeing 747s. There are four E-4B airborne command posts which are "militarized versions" of the 200. Two more 200s are designated as "Presidential Aircraft".

The only 400 is being converted into an experimental YAL-1A "Attack Laser" which you might think sounds a bit far fetched. Apparently it's going to have a powerful laser mounted on a nose turret. A fleet of seven aircraft are planned to be operational by 2008 and they will form part of the anti ballistic missile system – supposedly able to “detect and destroy theatre ballistic missiles in the powered boost phase of flight immediately after missile launch.”

Whatever your feelings about the ABM programme (personally I think it’s an extremely dangerous direction to move in) it is rather worrying that a civilian airframe is going to be used to carry a critical component of the system. Will a “rogue state” interested in clearing the local skies of US ABM capable aircraft be able to tell the difference between a civilian 747 and a YAL-1A?

[Wycombe]

One more thing,

Foghorn, thinking about it, I think that the -400 you mention is the one being modified to carry a f**k off big lasergun on the nose (part of "Son of Star Wars", I think)

Drat, stagger, you beat me to it with the answer!!

[ 20 July 2001: Message edited by: Wycombe ]

[Fly-by-night]

If this report is correct, the Prime Minister is travelling on private family business and thus is free, as all of us are, to make his own travel arrangements.

Good on you Mr Blair for supporting local airlines. I wish you a very pleasant trip :)

[foghorn]

Cool. Sounds like a fun aircraft. Does the fire button come next to the PTT button :D :D :D

[spud]

President Blah will do almost anything if he thinks it will make him popular. Unfortunately too many people fall for it.

[Self Loading Freight]

What's the betting that the Blair flight is mysteriously free of the various ills that often befall the EasyRyan Flying Circus? Can't see him and the family mooching around the departure lounge for an hour because the a/c's gone tech, or hasn't got back from Nice yet -- and as for the traditional scrum for seats...

And the modifications to Air Force One don't seem to include ECM, flares, chaff and so on. Or did I miss that bit?

R

[Kerosene Kraut]

Fog, heard the Luftwaffe is trying to sell all but two of their Challengers (Chancellor and SecDef) to save cost. But it seems to be very tricky to get their equipment certified for civilian buyers. Cockpits are made up for military standards only. If you can't use it you end up with a VFR-Jet. Who should by that? :D
Is the British PM entitled to use 146s whenever he wants it, I mean even on "private" occasions?

[dallas dude]

Just wondering if Tony and tribe will be ferried to the airport in a fleet of Reliant Robins too?

Poor bloke can't win either way one looks at it.

Oh, to be a newspaper editor for a day!

dd

newspapers are only good for one thing-wrapping chips.

[foghorn]

KK,

The press moaned last year about Blair twice using the 146's to go on holiday - if you count that as private business. This year he has announced that he is flying Easyjet instead.

The 146s are actually a part of the Queen's flight which are kept at RAF Northolt for flying Royals as well as some senior Government members. I don't think that the aircraft are allocated to any particular person but are kept as a pool (There are 3 146s, 5 HS125s and 3 helos). I also think that the whole flight is supposed to have a dual role as air ambulances and military VIP transport during times of war.

Of course what is not reported in the press is the extra cost to the taxpayer of the additional security required for taking the PM on a scheduled flight and how that compares to just taking the 146 anyway (which will possibly be flying less than its optimum hours from a maintenance viewpoint).

This on top of the military and nuclear command/control issues and the horrifying thought of 'Two Jags' Prescott the deputy PM having his protestor-thumping hands on the Trident missile launch button!

foggy.

[ 20 July 2001: Message edited by: foghorn ]

[1/2pv2s]

well if Mr Blair and his families easyjet flight is like the majority of easyjet flights, there will be no easyryan circus, it will be tech free and run on time.

enjoy.

[PAXboy]

Time for another cynical comment.

The decision to use a commercial line is unlikely to have been taken by Mr Blair. His PR people know what he should do.

Far be it from me to suggest that the family Blair are too far removed from every day life and a round trip on EZY is going to bring them no closer .... :rolleyes:

[Bally Heck]

If our Tone or any of his ministerial colleagues are on company business then it is right and proper that they should use company transport in line with international standards.

If they are of on a private jolly, well opinion may divided on that one.

What is not in doubt is that such use would be defined by the Inland Revenue as a "benefit in kind" and as such would (or should) be subject to income tax.

Now, the tax on a couple of these flights should take care of the fat cat rises these crooks awarded themselves without notice the day after the general election. :mad:

[Crepello]

Agree that the TB PR machine is probably the driving force. I can imagine this noble gesture will inconvenience the ordinary punter, e.g. full aircraft sniffer/xray sweep before departure, police vetting of all other pax and crew, restricted selection of onboard lagers if Euan gets there first ;) , etc.

Meandering slightly off-topic, I have to take the bait over the Cabinet pay rise. The timing was perhaps unfortunate, but I still believe that the taxpayer's getting a bargain in comparison to private sector remunerations. Interesting that Bally Heck should bemoan this at a time when his own profession is pushing for similar increases. NOTE that I'm not against this; I'm merely raising an eyebrow...

[Sharjah Night Shift]

The only delays I have experienced on EZY have been due to ATC, can we assume that this particular flight will not be delayed?

And what's wrong with our Prime Minister flying on an airline run by the future President of Greece.

[BTB]

Hello. 18 mths ago worked on contract for Braathens Malmo Aviation. Flew Swedish prime minister from Bromma to Malmo. He walked into the flight deck after well dodgy swedish winter approach and congratulated me on the landing. The Chief pilot cleared me for line ops on the spot citing "if it was good enough for the prime minister, it`s good enough for me!" Would this happen here? I wish!

[brockenspectre]

OK just a few questions on Mr Clean's alleged decision to fly his family on EasyJet.

1) will he pay for the flights?
2) will Stelios be shortlisted for MBE or something equivalent in next NY honours list?
3) will the property to be occupied by la famille Blair be owned by friends of Stelios
4) will the family have their own private row on board? with special attention?
5) why the Brit PM should NOT use RAF aircraft and be treated as special (like his European counterparts) is beyond me - this fake attempt to be "one of the people" when he and his wife together get paid more than a 7 figure salary is nonsense!!! This nation has a Prime Minister, he/she and their family are to be safeguarded at all costs and to get in bed with more "champagne socialist" cronies does no-one any service least of all the British people!

:cool:

[longarm]

Bally Heck,
Sorry off topic but...
The "pay rise" that TB and chums awarded themselves was not a pay rise. They had just chosen not to take their full salary for the previous years. The decision to take full salary was not TB's either put the recommendation of the independent salary review body. Purely as a sideline a certain balding chap from Richmond had taken his full salary (same as govt ministers) during his whole tenure.

[Kerosene Kraut]

Slightly off-topic: I wonder why the Queen's Flight hasn't upgraded to RJX's for official travel yet? Looks pretty much improved now, especially in terms of range.

[The flying gunman]

And did you know that the flight crew of Air force one are on 100% oxygen on the quick donning mask from take off to touch down...just in case

[JPJ]

If this thread proves anything, it is that Tony Blair is damned if he does, and damned if he doesn't.