Security
 

Manchester airport have just issused notice that inbound crews must use the pax channel and not cross over with outbound pax to get back to arrivals quicker ???
Why ?

Crews mix with inbound and outbound pax all the time and are the most security checked and trusted people at any airport.

Given that :

a temporary dispathcher who lived in Romania untill last year can go through inbound/outbound pax anytime unyet 'dislosure scotland' will not pick up anything on criminal history.

This is typical of jobsworth uk,

'the department of stupid ideas' justifying their jobs.

Longstay Manchester is a class act all on its own, its hatred of crews is legendary. With no success on the terrorist threat they have decided to go for the next best thing in their small minded way....aircrew.

Now ID cards don't get me started!!!!

Richard Littlejohn where are you when we need you ....

"You really couldn't make it up"

Really, says who?

!!! says it all !!!

It seems that if you are any form of aircrew, you have the ultimate knowledge in prevention of terrorism and how to organise security, I am sure that the regulatory authorities would be so grateful for your advice.

If you can spare the time from being god's gift to aviation and the ultimate prima donna's, spend a day with airport security and get some appreciation of how difficult it is to assess if someone or the items which they are carrying are a risk to aviation security and follow the regulations laid down.

I expect that none of you would be able to do this, but I would very, very happy to be proved wrong.

I'll do it if you can get the security people to explain why my shoes are considered a lethal weapon which must be x-rayed. And don't tell me it's because of the shoe-bomber because he wasn't on his way to operate a flight.

Niknac use your head, crews mix with inbound/outbound pax all the time - on the aeroplane.
Outbound crews (who have mixed with outbound pax) need to be able to talk to inbound crews (who have mixed with inbound pax) on the a/c to hand it over etc etc.

Crews are trusted with millions of pounds worth of equipment, duty free bars, yes, even the crash axe etc etc etc.

To suggest this is anything other than empire building by jobsworths is nonsense.

@ Mike

Be sure, it is the same all over the world. It makes a good show on TV, that's all. No one wants an airport to be secure.

Regards, Bernhard

Admittedly I don't know the setup at Manchester, but have you considered that this might be a requirement from a Control Authority, such as Customs, rather than Security?

At certain airports, Customs require all staff to exit through the Green Channel (NOT Blue) so that they can be examined as they pass to landside. That's not giving any secrets away - there are notices about which are/can be read by millions of passengers.

Cheers,
The Odd One

The reason we are so sceptical is that there are different rules at different airports within the UK - and they are all operating to the same act of Parliament. We therefore raise an arched eyebrow each time we pass through Manchester.

Utter rubbish, the airport is a joke.

Some total muppet has decided that we are now no longer allowed to use any of the inter-connecting doors within the pier system to get to the aircraft as we are not allowed to mix outbound crew with inbound passengers or crew.

Fanbloodytastic.

What a brilliantly well thought out rule.

So anyone care to let me know how I am supposed to hand over an aircraft to the next crew without contaminating them?
Sign language through the partition window?

I'm relieved in the fact that obviously this doesn't apply to cleaners at the airport who always use these doors...(must have been super-dooper security checked...)
...wheel chair guys meeting an inbound aircraft (couldn't have them lugging wheelies up and down stairs and getting a bad back and then taking the airport authority to court....(forget about all the cabin crew, their bags weigh tons, jammed full of paper work and bar takings.....etc
...or indeed ramp agents, the large proportion of which are young, college aged guys & girls who probably do a summer season and then leave.

Us....been here for years...and have been using this facility FOR YEARS......No...we are a ******* customs risk.


Total and utter rubbish.

what happened to the days that when a crewmember was employed by a company he had to do a security check, was then issued with an I.D. and that allowed him to go airside. What are the I.D's purposes ...to obtain meal allowance or parking?

quote
1) there is an axe in the flightdeck.
unquote

What a fu...ng idiot posting something like this
R u out of yr mind.....bang yr stupid head against the wall idiot
any idea what kind of nutheads r reading these posts........
I hope yr not working in the airline industry and if so they shud fire u on the spot

Even better....Moderator...can U plse lock all items ref security items....because any person discussing these kind of things shud be shot.....becuase they r idiots

Suppie

Do think before you post. Your vitriol is not necessary, counter productive, rude and unnecessary.

There is an Axe on the flight deck. So what? It’s behind a security door, what about the carving knife in the 1st class galley, that heavy fire extinguisher and 02 bottle to batter people with etc etc? Oh :mad: I have given the game away!

Get real and get some sense of proportion.

Always makes me laugh that as an engineer I can go through security with a leatherman complete with 3in knife blade (and assorted other lovely items on it), yet they stop me when I take a fork to eat my dinner with :ugh:

I do agree with the guy's comments on posting abot stuff like the flightdeck axe, and other items onboard that could be misused, not exactly clever is it!

Not only are there fire axes, crowbars, and sundry other things
a terrorist could use behind the flight deck doors but the cockpit
also contains SHOCK HORROR the actual controls of the aircraft.
Yes, pilots control all of this stuff.
So to the simple minded security professionals and airport authorites out there, BACK OFF your ridiculous screening, patting
down, and idiotic interpretations of checking pilots, we will still
get control of all the world's aircraft no matter what you do.
FOOLS

You will see that MAN security is a bug bear of mine:

http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthr...hreadid=169816

Suppie, you sound like one of these left wing morons who is employed by the department of stupid idea's having studied the

"how to p*ss crews off and build an empire in one easy step book !"

Boofta, oh no, you let the cat out of the bag !, perhaps you shouldn't have said the "actual controls are in the flightdeck" - oh no, thoses security boffins will have to think of something to deny us access to the flightdeck, pehaps redesign the flightdeck so it's all soft and rubbery !

Suppie, get real fool.

>>Boofta, oh no, you let the cat out of the bag !, perhaps you shouldn't have said the "actual controls are in the flightdeck" - oh no, thoses security boffins will have to think of something to deny us access to the flightdeck !

********************************

Might the answer not be to have the automatic control system protected by a password system, so that even if wannabes gained access to the flight deck they'd need to know the security code before they could over-ride the autopilot and take manual control? Likewise, under manual control the pilot could be required to input a sequence of codes to the keypad at random intervals otherwise the system would revert to automatic control.
That would stop any hi-jacker taking over control!
To obviate threats to the crew to divert from the planned route the code sequence could include a hidden lock code which would render further manual input impossible.
There! Problem solved . . .

System could be unlocked by a transmission from ATC (again against a pass-word sequence).

As has been discussed before, the reason flight crew are searched is to make it more difficult for flight crew to be made to act under duress by terrorists. Need I say more?

Well, lets not get too distracted with searching the flightdeck, the original topic was using the security doors to get to arrivals.

The other day I mixed with the wheelchair bods who had just come through the outbound pax at the departure gate, they then pushed the wheelchair with inbound pax cargo, through the outbound pax at the departure gate, me and my crew then had to wave ta tar to the wheelchair and proceed through Manchester's ridiculous inbound routing up and down stairwells and walking next to non-working travelators in order to overtake the wheelchair and it's occupant.

complete security drivel.

Of course, the big issue is that for all the hassles/cost/worry we go through to keep our jobs and airside passes, would all of the July 7th bombers have passed Disclosure Scotland's checks and got full airside passes, jobs as aircrew etc etc?

And they take my coffee off me as I go through security. Heheheheheheh

This idea had me in stitches..

Typical scenario

F/O...

"Ok Captain we've had an engine failure in a critical flight phase with the AP connected, we'd better disconnect the AP and hand fly this sucker"

Captain...

"Great idea, now whats the F**** pass code ?"


Password protected Autopilots, I think not.

Not to mention the numerous glass bottles full of flammable liquid on sale to the passengers...................

Avman, I've been in and out of DUS quite a bit recently (writing a security policy for a company there, as it happens), but I haven't experienced any unnecessarily intrusive 'pat-downs' - maybe you were just unlucky! I must admit that I can't imagine that going through (virtually) identical scans twice over really adds significantly to my security.

For anyone who thinks that mentioning the presence of an ax(e) in the cockpit is giving away secrets to potential terrorists, try typing "cockpit crash-axe" into Google and see how many hits you get. Security by obscurity never works - a secret known to three people, is a secret no longer.

As usual, the military approach to security involves refighting the war before last. Whatever Osama is planning next, it won't involve hijacking aircraft and flying them into buildings - as was sadly demonstrated in London.

We should really applaud the Department of Aviation Prevention in their ability to have ever increasing activity and budget with a never improving achievement. Confiscating knitting needles from "little old dears" is not a result. Whatever they do is always "for security reasons" and aircrew are considered part of the problem. I do have a vested interest in their achievement: my passengers' and my crew's life. But, (niknak listen hard mate, you appear to be one of the problems!) aircrew are NEVER listened to. We "don't understand" I have been told. We have no security training (I can touch up another bloke as well as they can with no training - but I'd prefer to give it is miss thank you!) and don't have a full appreciation of the facts. And they do I suppose! In my experience, the only thing that makes these people special is that they are the only people who are únable to pass GCSE's. And in the 15 years that I have doing battle with these wenkers, not one has every worked out whether or not I'm actually meant to be there! And in my books, that's scandalous!

Right this is the gods honest truth, bear with me it's so mad as to be unbelievable.
At work at MAN last night, I'm ground staff and was airside last night, one of my collegues went to boots landside to purchase some tea for herself, this was at about 8pm and there was no food left in the airside boots. It being a sunday you see. So she brings her meal deal back through security and is publicly reprimanded for carrying food through security! She has been told that staff cannot now carry any food on them at all be it brought from home or bought at one of the airport shops! She wasn't carrying any cutlery or opened drinks, just a sealed boots meal deal!

I wish I was joking, but it's all true!

Does anyone out there know where this latest madness comes from?

Could somebody explain why the police and customs are exempt from security searches?

... .and why the Old Bill don't have to wear yellow tabbards ?! :rolleyes:

Lex- would'nt go down too well if they try that at NEMA, the tower is airside, we have no canteen and work shifts-with no acess to sustenance!
be interesting to see SRG's take on any incident when the ATCO concerned had not eaten for say 10 hours

Yes please, could somebody tell us why police and customs are not searched. And what about security staff?

Right, lets stop this stupidity once and for all ! let's have a

'take food to work day' :suspect: :suspect: :suspect:

Has anyone seen the child's plastic King Aurther sword (circa woolworths 2004) in the perspex box in terminal 1,

looks like they foiled that attempt !

It's pointless searching someone who is carrying a firearm already. They still have to have their IDs swiped to establish their bona-fides, though.

You will find that all Control Authority staff are now searched.

Security staff moving from Landside to Airside are also searched, even if they are relieving their colleagues on the post where they are searched.

I, like everyone else who works airside, gets searched as part & parcel of our employment. The rules don't always make sense to us, but remember they're not set by the airport, but by the Department for Transport.

Interesting point about lack of food airside for us 'out of hours' workers. We used to have a 'greasy spoon' airside in a portakabin but the rent knocked it on the head. Most people now bring stuff in - a 12 hour night shift's a long time without proper food. We're lobbying for a replacement airside facility but not holding our breath. I often use Boots landside for a 'midnight snack', sealed drinks etc and haven't had a problem carrying it through. What is required is clarity of rule interpretation with properly made out notices for all to see, with changes anounced in advance. We've had notices up about unsealed drinks being not allowed for ages.

The Odd One

And yet I can jump in my little Piper 152 here at Little Piddlington airstrip and fly myself to MAN and get out there on the ramp and swan about airside. And NOBODY has made me walk through any scanner, taken my Aunts knitting needles off me or confiscated my open can of Cola.

If I donned a fluroescent tabard I bet I could swan around for hours and mingle with Pax.

Perhaps the security searches are unaware and believe everyone airside has been through them or is a Copper. Sadly not.

Cheers

WWW

There is no real problem getting food at Man just ask security they all have mates who are still serving Big Macs, I'm sure you can even get a discount.