PPRuNe Forums

PPRuNe Forums (https://www.pprune.org/)
-   Airlines, Airports & Routes (https://www.pprune.org/airlines-airports-routes-85/)
-   -   easyJet cancelling scheduled flights to put on extra football flights to Paris (https://www.pprune.org/airlines-airports-routes/646551-easyjet-cancelling-scheduled-flights-put-extra-football-flights-paris.html)

Former easyjet pax 7th May 2022 13:19

easyJet cancelling scheduled flights to put on extra football flights to Paris
 
I was due to fly from Manchester to Munich on Friday 27 May, returning Sunday 29 May however, easyJet has now cancelled this flight at a great inconvenience to myself and everyone else booked to travel, simply so they can cash in on the Champions League Final.

Using the easyJet website it is very easy to see that on a normal Friday easyJet operate 3 flights from Manchester to Paris however, on Friday 27 May easyJet have added an extra 3 flights, so will operate 6 flights from Manchester to Paris on this date. We all know airlines do not leave aircraft sitting around on the ground doing nothing so other flights will have had to be cut to make way for these three additional flights. My flight to Munich and likely other destinations on this date has been cancelled so the aircraft can instead be used to fly to Paris.

We paid about £180 each for this flight. easyJet are selling the additional Paris flights at around £1200 return, so they're raking it in even after they refund everyone on the cancelled Munich flight.

I have reported this to the press (who will be running a story), the CAA and MP Grant Shapps. I would like the forums advise on who else can I report this behaviour to, to ensure easyJet are held to account by regulators as simply, this is unacceptable.

DaveReidUK 7th May 2022 17:44


Originally Posted by Former easyjet pax (Post 11226558)
We all know airlines do not leave aircraft sitting around on the ground doing nothing so other flights will have had to be cut to make way for these three additional flights.

In the current climate, we don't know that at all.

planedrive 7th May 2022 17:53

At least one of those 3 flights is operating via a W pattern from another UK base... they could also be using foreign based aircraft to operate? Seems like you've jumped to some pretty large conclusions.

pabely 7th May 2022 19:49

They normally run LPL FAO but that not bookable that weekend, don't know if they were on sale before footie team got to final?

reac 7th May 2022 20:28

Former easyjet pax,

I understand your frustration as it affects you, however it is a commercial decision made by Easyjet. They are in business to make money, if that annoys some customers then so be it. As long as they have followed proper procedure regarding refunds / alternatives and notifying customers then they haven't done anything wrong. Complaining to the press and MP Grant Shapps (both entities are a waste of space) is wasting your time. Book with another carrier and learn your lesson not to trust easyJet as I am assuming from your user name you have done.

Safe Travels
REAC

ATNotts 7th May 2022 20:44

REAC

I agree with your sentiments, but cancelling previously scheduled services to cash in on a one off opportunity isn't really 'cricket'.

If I had suffered personally from such corporate behaviour I would vote with my wallet and avoid them in the future as the OP seems to have done. I would also probably have gone to the media.

Denti 7th May 2022 20:50

The cancellation could be to cash in on the game, or just simply because they have to cancel, same as other carriers, quite a few flights as they are unable to recruit enough personnel, especially cabin crew. Happens now all the time, both on short notice and longer term. Someone forgot that Covid is actually still an issue, as well as having not enough crew to start with being negatively affected by said shortages leading to severe fatigue and additional sickness issues leading to a vicious circle.

Anyway, there are others out there, competition is good for the consumer after all.

AirportPlanner1 7th May 2022 21:40


Originally Posted by pabely (Post 11226678)
They normally run LPL FAO but that not bookable that weekend, don't know if they were on sale before footie team got to final?

Not bookable or sold out? It’s the start of the half term I think

Flyhighfirst 7th May 2022 21:57


Originally Posted by Former easyjet pax (Post 11226558)
I was due to fly from Manchester to Munich on Friday 27 May, returning Sunday 29 May however, easyJet has now cancelled this flight at a great inconvenience to myself and everyone else booked to travel, simply so they can cash in on the Champions League Final.

Using the easyJet website it is very easy to see that on a normal Friday easyJet operate 3 flights from Manchester to Paris however, on Friday 27 May easyJet have added an extra 3 flights, so will operate 6 flights from Manchester to Paris on this date. We all know airlines do not leave aircraft sitting around on the ground doing nothing so other flights will have had to be cut to make way for these three additional flights. My flight to Munich and likely other destinations on this date has been cancelled so the aircraft can instead be used to fly to Paris.

We paid about £180 each for this flight. easyJet are selling the additional Paris flights at around £1200 return, so they're raking it in even after they refund everyone on the cancelled Munich flight.

I have reported this to the press (who will be running a story), the CAA and MP Grant Shapps. I would like the forums advise on who else can I report this behaviour to, to ensure easyJet are held to account by regulators as simply, this is unacceptable.

They are a company required to
make profit where they can. I can’t see they have done anything wrong. They will of course offer a full refund and depending on circumstances EU261 compensation. If they can make more money out of a different utilisation of equipment you would be silly not to.

Former easyjet pax 7th May 2022 21:57

Thanks for the replies.

I understand fully that easyJet are in business to make money, that goes without saying. However, that does not make this sort of behaviour acceptable. Cashing in on a quick buck for a one-off sporting event while screwing over existing, loyal customers is no way to run a business. After cancelling my flight easyJet offered me a cash refund or a voucher. Neither of these options get me to Munich. Lufthansa do have a flight on the same dates but over £200 in fare difference. Will easyJet pay the difference? I suspect not. Why should I be out of pocket while easyJet cashes in, at my expense?

Upon further investigation I can see easyJet do not normally fly between Liverpool and Paris however they do have flights out on 27 and 28 May, returning 29 May for a whopping £1,037.28 return. To make way for these flights, on Friday 27 May easyJet has cancelled flight EZY7253 from Liverpool to Krakow and flight EZY7195 from Liverpool to Faro.

Really disgusting behaviour from easyJet.

zambonidriver 7th May 2022 22:24

I will have to agree with previous comments. This is just sensible business practice and done reasonably well in advance for you to arrange alternative plans.

ICEHOUSES 7th May 2022 23:04

This is normal EasyJet practice to change flights with complete disregard to customers convenience. Recently booked flights Manchester to jersey for a long weekend, leaving around 0800, received an email four weeks prior to trip saying the flights would depart 3 hours later to 1100, therefore ruining the first day holiday of a 3 day trip, apparently the airline in the small print is allowed to change the flight times in advance. Myself and rest of family would never use this airline ever again.

edi_local 7th May 2022 23:05

It is perfectly acceptable for a private company to cancel your service and give you your money back with 3weeks notice They are not a public service, they can and do make commercial decisions as every company does. You can't even prove they have done what you are accusing them of. Even if they have canceled your plane specifically to provide extra capacity for the football fans that is their business and their business only. They exist to make money. The press will run any old story bashing airlines, so that's not an achievement in itself and I strongly suspect no one will investigate anything as no laws have been broken whatsoever. If you're that unhappy, simply take your business elsewhere, easyJet will make much more from these charters than you were going to give them anyway and they will have opened themselves up to many more future customers too. It's simply good business from a company that has suffered greatly for the last 2 years.

WHBM 8th May 2022 01:07


Originally Posted by edi_local (Post 11226749)
It is perfectly acceptable for a private company to cancel your service and give you your money back with 3weeks notice They are not a public service, they can and do make commercial decisions as every company does. You can't even prove they have done what you are accusing them of. Even if they have canceled your plane specifically to provide extra capacity for the football fans that is their business and their business only.

Not so. This is a regulated industry. The CAA were always very hard on carriers who cancelled scheduled flights for other than good reasons (pretending it was a tech issue when it was a commercial one was spotted in a flash), to the extent that it would be necessary to subcharter in, specifically to cover any shortfall. Once you schedule it, you run it. The only exception was "No commercial load". At all.

As I don't remember legislation going through removing this aspect, I presume it's still on the statute books.

Expressflight 8th May 2022 06:38


Originally Posted by reac (Post 11226687)
Former easyjet pax,

I understand your frustration as it affects you, however it is a commercial decision made by Easyjet. They are in business to make money, if that annoys some customers then so be it. As long as they have followed proper procedure regarding refunds / alternatives and notifying customers then they haven't done anything wrong.
Safe Travels
REAC

Oh no, that isn't acceptable at all.
It is totally unethical to cancel flights simply because something more lucrative has turned up. If EZY, or any other 'reputable' airline really has reached the stage where they think "if it annoys some passengers then so be it" we are all in a sad place. Of course, if you don't think ethics count for anything that defines you and society as a whole perhaps.

zambonidriver 8th May 2022 07:34


Originally Posted by WHBM (Post 11226768)
As I don't remember legislation going through removing this aspect, I presume it's still on the statute books.

I would be interested learning about such legislation - assuming it exists.


If EZY, or any other 'reputable' airline really has reached the stage where they think "if it annoys some passengers then so be it" we are all in a sad place.
I'm afraid you did not pay attention over the past 30 years or so... These airlines are here to make money. They don't provide a public service (in which case your remarks might be justified).

kghjfg 8th May 2022 07:47


Originally Posted by Former easyjet pax (Post 11226729)
Lufthansa do have a flight on the same dates but over £200 in fare difference. Will easyJet pay the difference? I suspect not. Why should I be out of pocket while easyJet cashes in, at my expense?

I don’t understand your complaint, you booked some cheap tickets with a disreputable company, who keep fares low by cancelling flights/screwing passengers when it suits them to chase lucrative opportunities.

That was all fine, and you didn’t mind / supported that, until it affected you.

Then you complain that another airline is more expensive (and you’ll be out of pocket???), when the reason they are more expensive is because they don’t do the thing you are complaining about!


You can’t have it both ways.

Do you think it’s ok they do this to other people, to keep your fare low, as long as they don’t do it to you?

Stop whining, support reputable companies in future, explain the easyJet business model to people if you like, but don’t pretend they are costing you extra money that you should have paid in the first place if you wanted some guarantees you would get there.

You booked a cheap flight, with a disreputable company, that might be cancelled for a better opportunity, and then complained when they cancelled it.

Like I say, makes no sense.


Flyhighfirst 8th May 2022 08:22


Originally Posted by WHBM (Post 11226768)
Not so. This is a regulated industry. The CAA were always very hard on carriers who cancelled scheduled flights for other than good reasons (pretending it was a tech issue when it was a commercial one was spotted in a flash), to the extent that it would be necessary to subcharter in, specifically to cover any shortfall. Once you schedule it, you run it. The only exception was "No commercial load". At all.

As I don't remember legislation going through removing this aspect, I presume it's still on the statute books.

The regulation - EU261 only come into effect if the cancellation was made inside 2 weeks. Outside of 2 weeks the airline can do what it likes.

Rutan16 8th May 2022 08:56


Originally Posted by Former easyjet pax (Post 11226558)
I was due to fly from Manchester to Munich on Friday 27 May, returning Sunday 29 May however, easyJet has now cancelled this flight at a great inconvenience to myself and everyone else booked to travel, simply so they can cash in on the Champions League Final.

Using the easyJet website it is very easy to see that on a normal Friday easyJet operate 3 flights from Manchester to Paris however, on Friday 27 May easyJet have added an extra 3 flights, so will operate 6 flights from Manchester to Paris on this date. We all know airlines do not leave aircraft sitting around on the ground doing nothing so other flights will have had to be cut to make way for these three additional flights. My flight to Munich and likely other destinations on this date has been cancelled so the aircraft can instead be used to fly to Paris.

We paid about £180 each for this flight. easyJet are selling the additional Paris flights at around £1200 return, so they're raking it in even after they refund everyone on the cancelled Munich flight.

I have reported this to the press (who will be running a story), the CAA and MP Grant Shapps. I would like the forums advise on who else can I report this behaviour to, to ensure easyJet are held to account by regulators as simply, this is unacceptable.

Capitalism 101 afraid to say mate !

They will have made a consideration that paying a level of compensation and a few (no more than two hundred and sixty) people disappointed in a business that moves millions sort of worth it !

Oh and it happens almost every year . Do you remember the dozens of aircraft some years back that flew into Manchester for a football cup event and the masses of Alitalia cancellations on their schedules network 😉

As others have said the airlines can cancel any flight with sufficient notice and compensation where due . They are under no obligation of carriage unless it’s a PSO service .



Brian Pern 8th May 2022 09:53


Originally Posted by Former easyjet pax (Post 11226558)
I was due to fly from Manchester to Munich on Friday 27 May, returning Sunday 29 May however, easyJet has now cancelled this flight at a great inconvenience to myself and everyone else booked to travel, simply so they can cash in on the Champions League Final.
.

Yet they have not canceled the flights from gatwick on the 27 or 29 to Munich, 4 flights in total, a choice of morning and evening departures.

ahwalk01 8th May 2022 09:56

I've heard of this on trains also e.g. QPR to Sheffield United a few months back on East Mids Rail (booking out 1st).

Similarly last time I flew EZY, I got a subcontracted to SmartLynx Latvia return leg. A couple of hours late but better service.

Alex.

zambonidriver 8th May 2022 10:37

Interesting

I've flown at least a thousand legs with EasyJet and never been subcontracted.

As for trains they usually fulfil a public mandate, although UK might be an outlier to that respect.

Uplinker 8th May 2022 11:06


Originally Posted by kghjfg (Post 11226855)
I don’t understand your complaint, you booked some cheap tickets with a ......company, who keep fares low....

That was all fine, and you didn’t mind / supported that, until it affected you.

Then you complain that another airline is more expensive (and you’ll be out of pocket???), when the reason they are more expensive is because they don’t do the thing you are complaining about!

You can’t have it both ways.

+1

Very annoying and inconvenient, I am sure, but remember that low cost airlines are LOCO because they cut corners and do not necessarily provide the depth of service and back-up of a non LOCO. But they do provide an opportunity for millions of people to fly, who would not otherwise be able to afford to do so.

Rutan16 8th May 2022 11:17


Originally Posted by zambonidriver (Post 11226926)
Interesting

I've flown at least a thousand legs with EasyJet and never been subcontracted.

As for trains they usually fulfil a public mandate, although UK might be an outlier to that respect.

Several SMARTLYNX aircraft are currently on operating leases to Easyjet UK flying from Gatwick at the moment

Albert Hall 8th May 2022 12:30

It’s not quite as simple as saying that outside two weeks, they can do what they want. If they cancel a flight then they are required to offer re-routing to destination including rebooking you onto another carrier if that is the only realistic option.

If the rebooking options on easyJet are not same day / same route and there is an equivalent available with another airline, they are required to offer it if that’s what you want.

stuart8181 8th May 2022 13:26

cancelled flight
 
No more ethical corporations seem to exist. It's all about the money.

zambonidriver 8th May 2022 14:21


Originally Posted by Albert Hall (Post 11226977)
It’s not quite as simple as saying that outside two weeks, they can do what they want. If they cancel a flight then they are required to offer re-routing to destination including rebooking you onto another carrier if that is the only realistic option.

On what basis / regulation?

Albert Hall 8th May 2022 14:52

EU261/2004. Articles 5 and 8. The only difference that a cancellation inside two weeks of departure (instead of earlier) makes is to the right to compensation. The other rights for re-routing etc exist at any time.

Rutan16 8th May 2022 15:21


Originally Posted by Albert Hall (Post 11226977)
It’s not quite as simple as saying that outside two weeks, they can do what they want. If they cancel a flight then they are required to offer re-routing to destination including rebooking you onto another carrier if that is the only realistic option.

If the rebooking options on easyJet are not same day / same route and there is an equivalent available with another airline, they are required to offer it if that’s what you want.

Only applied to IATA/ICAO registered carriers, they can offer a different day and routing within their own network, however they are NOT obligated the buy you a ticket on another carrier.
They can terminate a flight at anytime and as said before compensation other than refund / vouchers only applicable within the timeframe of Eu261 rules


Albert Hall 8th May 2022 15:23

Nope - it applies to every carrier including LCCs. There's no "out" from the regulation on that basis.

BA318 8th May 2022 15:29


Originally Posted by Albert Hall (Post 11227046)
Nope - it applies to every carrier including LCCs. There's no "out" from the regulation on that basis.

Indeed and this is what I commented on in the BA thread that Which Magazine had wrote to the CAA to investigate BA because they were denying passengers alternative flights and failing in their duty of care.

willy wombat 8th May 2022 15:39

I used to be a fan of easyJet but seeing how they treated my sister and her husband recently has changed my opinion. They were due to fly from EDI to Europe on a Sunday evening to an important event on the Monday. EZY cancelled the flight, notifying them by email exactly 4 hours prior to departure. It was impossible to contact EZY by phone, even on the “special” Flight Club number (I am a member) and their website was clearly overwhelmed as it was impossible to use the manage my booking function. Therefore they rerouted themselves via LGW entirely on EZY and incurred an overnight stay cost at the Gatwick Hilton. You would think that’s a pretty straightforward claim for EZY to handle but you’d be wrong. They are making a major meal of it and also trying to duck out off eu261 compensation claiming weather delays elsewhere meant the flight would be affected by curfew at destination (even if that’s true what about an aircraft swap?). Those of us in the Industry know that problems happen and that we are judged on how well we deal with them. I’m afraid it’s easyJet null points

Rutan16 8th May 2022 16:01

It not in their terms of trading and I don’t believe that they have ever complied with this !
Even the major carriers play lip service these days
Long gone the days BA might put you on a Pan Am 727 to Berlin 😉
Indeed the LCC terms and conditions and indeed many of the legacies budget fare options explicitly state the ticket is NOT an obligation of carriage. The fully flexible economy and business fares only provide that obligation.
And it’s not new Apex fares of old also excluded the obligation of carriage and cover !
Now a legal case might indeed be necessary to test the cases however that’s not going to change thing on the ground right now so to speak
We also need clarity on the full UK rules post B do we not

Albert Hall 8th May 2022 16:23

You cannot write T&Cs of carriage to exclude the need to comply with the law. If you could, then every airline would certainly have ruled out the right to compensation under EU261 by virtue of its T&Cs.

Rutan16 8th May 2022 16:56

Article 8 – Right to reimbursement or re-routing
“1. Where reference is made to this Article, passengers shall be offered the choice between:
(a) — reimbursement within seven days, by the means provided for in Article 7(3), of the full cost of the ticket at the price at which it was bought, for the part or parts of the journey not made, and for the part or parts already made if the flight is no longer serving any purpose in relation to the passenger's original travel plan, together with, when relevant,
— a return flight to the first point of departure, at the earliest opportunity;
(b) re-routing, under comparable transport conditions, to their final destination at the earliest opportunity; or
(c) re-routing, under comparable transport conditions, to their final destination at a later date at the passenger's convenience, subject to availability of seats.
2. Paragraph 1(a) shall also apply to passengers whose flights form part of a package, except for the right to reimbursement where such right arises under Directive 90/314/EEC.
3. When, in the case where a town, city or region is served by several airports, an operating air carrier offers a passenger a flight to an airport alternative to that for which the booking was made, the operating air carrier shall bear the cost of transferring the passenger from that alternative airport either to that for which the booking was made, or to another close-by destination agreed with the passenger.”

By offering a rerouting on a differing day or time within their network or the full refund and compensation within the time frame they comply !

They are not and again I state obligated to buy you a ticket on a competitor!

Rutan16 8th May 2022 17:11

BTW the only routing that would work for the above person is via Milan as that’s the only point where someone Manchester could connect onto Munich within the Easy network, short of a coach to the Surrey/Sussex county lines!

Albert Hall 8th May 2022 17:15

I'm beginning to think you must be one of the easyJet customer relations or commercial people.

That interpretation is not sustainable. It says that you are entitled to re-routing at the earliest reasonable opportunity. A reasonable opportunity is a flight with another airline and the CAA as the National Enforcement Body for EU261 takes that view. In the guidance covering cancelled flights, the CAA state:

2. Choose an alternative flight

If you still want to travel, your airline must find you an alternative flight. It’s up to you whether to fly as soon as possible after the cancelled flight, or at a later date that suits you.
Although most airlines will book you onto another of their flights to the same destination, if an alternative airline is flying there significantly sooner or other suitable modes of transport are available then you may have the right to be booked onto that alternative transport instead. You can discuss this with your airline.


easyJet, just like any other airline, has an obligation to re-route you which may extend to re-booking you on another airline if that enables you to reach your destination on the day of travel that you have booked.

zambonidriver 8th May 2022 17:22

This is getting interresting.
I think the operatinve word is "you may have the right to be booked onto that alternative transport instead".

Does anyone know of a case where an airline has been condamed under EU261 for not rebooking you on another airline ?

I don't get me started on the very lenient enforcement of EU261 in general and especially for UK carriers in UK post Brexit...

Albert Hall 8th May 2022 17:58

CAA has repeatedly reminded and warned airlines that they have to consider and offer re-booking onto other airlines where they have cancelled flights.

etrang 8th May 2022 18:02

Well, just imagine how much worse it would be if Manchester City were actually playing in the final.


All times are GMT. The time now is 10:07.


Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.