TUI..but slightly off topic..flying to and from Cancun soon…anyone able to tell me if you have to pay arrival/departure taxes still at Cancun ?

No all of that now taken in the ticket. The old days of needing hard cash to pay at check-in thankfully now gone.

Might make sense to the bean counters!

You have to still pay a visitors tax prior to leaving the state of Quintana Roo. This is done via a website and is linked to your passport so they know when you arrive at the airport if you have paid or not.

If you don't pay it prior to departure you have to do it at the airport which I wouldn't recommend as the WiFi is terrible! You also can't pay it in cash as it can only be paid online.

Tourist Tax website

Thanks
Steven

I do wonder what the plan for next Summer is. I don't know the 767 routes but in recent years they had them both going MAN - PMI on the same day. That's equivalent to 4 737s. I guess the plan it to charter more old, tatty aircraft from third parties and not bother expanding their own fleet

Many thanks for replies on the Mexico tax!

Or potentially buy seats on other airlines like they have been doing on EZY out of certain airports

4x 737’s worth is a lot of seats to source on other carriers.
Interesting to know what their fleet thoughts are. Suppose their 737 max10’s should have been here by now. The usual of balancing cliff edge drops in dark winter months versus peaks mid summer. Maybe they could get in on Air Tanker action.
People keep paying despite ‘tatty’ 3rd party carriers so they’ll just keeping doing it…

I suppose there is an element of 'you get what you pay for' and seem to recall reading pretty positive comments about the likes of Plus Ultra and Wamos. I guess that the bean counters know the price of everything and the quality of nothing.

Pretty common these days.

What percentage of flying is done on 'tatty' third party aircraft - for example, the only sub the four a/c base at Newcastle has seen was Titan.

Does make me wonder why they still have a 789 sitting on the desert in US doing nothing, perhaps Boeing are still making compensation payments year round. If the Max10 is delayed beyond S24 they are going to have serious capacity issues once again.
Hopefully they are working on plan B already to get extra S24 capacity with a reliable leased in product.

A small percentage of course, but aggrieved passengers taking to social media can make that small percentage a nasty headache.

If you are a quality business you don't contract necessarily the cheapest suppliers as a good reputation is hard won and easily lost. To use another well worn addige its not making a mistake, but how you recover that counts.

TUI have rejected the B789 G-TUIP, beleive they have said they don't have demand for another widebody aircraft, so it won't happen, i'm sure they will be taking delivery of more 737 max 8's over the next 10 months, and maybe more second hand 738s? And they will be using leased in A320s again next summer from the likes of SmartLynx and Avion Express.

Maybe they could lease in 4 747’s from Global Airlines😀

Have they official rejected it and said they don’t want it?

I thought they were in desperate need of long haul aircraft. Not only have you had the complete axing of regional long-haul from next year (which I assumed was due to aircraft shortages) but the axing of several long haul routes:

AUA
LIR (now seasonal and I thought there was a MAN - LIR at one point too)
SJD
AUA
PQC
POP
CCC
MRU
MLE for a bit of an older one that was still post First Choice merger


And that’s recent TUI UK destinations. If you look at long haul from 15 years ago it’s worse.

Whilst some of its will be lack of bums on seat, I assumed a large part was due to aircraft shortages.

As people not privy to the inside details, we are not going to know for certain. But my take is that 'demand' has fallen which is why fewer aircraft are needed and routes have been chopped.

Demand has fallen for all the publicly obvious reasons; high fuel prices, cost of living, people who can afford a holiday going for cheaper, shorter, European breaks. The relative cost of the £ v other currencies hasn't helped either. That is not to say demand isn't there, but not enough demand to fill the routes and make a good profit (I assume). All the while European holidays are still holding up and in fact are still enjoying a post-covid boom, but it wouldn't take much of a leap of thought to think that with high interest rates out there and disposable income being constantly squeezed, that we may see a slowing of demand for European travel in 2024, 2025 and 2026.

I wouldn't be surprised if there was some scaling back of "timetables" v what is on sale today for 2024 once we get past Christmas (across all operators) as people become nervous about booking holidays as their fixed rate mortgages come to an end. Hope I'm wrong....

I would say that is a given. The bad old days of IT consolidations are likely just around the corner, even for quasi scheduled operators such as Jet2 and Easyjet.

There isn't a perennial fruiting magic money tree and difficult budgeting decisions are going to be coming down the tracks particularly for younger families with big mortgages.

Ahh the squeeze on the middle class is coming courtesy of the traitors in government, the PM who should be arrested for treason for working for Klaus and the WEF, and the incompetent and useless Bank of England governor. I hope that the industry is right in what it's saying in terms of people are booking much earlier and spreading the payments out.

Maybe they've decided that it makes sense to leave the flying to scheduled airlines which are large enough to have frames kept as hot spares (as I believe both Jet2 and Easyjet do) or are part of alliances with large fleets around the world. Stick to providing accommodation packages in tied hotels, and cruises.

You have AUA down twice.
TUI (the holiday operator) is the caller for what flying TUI Airways does and always has been. The tour operator has indicated that after Covid, the appetite for longhaul has decreased substantially so that's why the 787s are doing quite a bit of shorthaul.
So TUI the tour operator, has put AUA onto British Airways (via ANU) The airline only went there once a week anyway.
LIR sales just declined too much for the ,again, once a week flight.
The Airline left MLE years ago as the prices charged for the airport/islands was just too expensive, and MLE attracted Chinese/Korean and Russian tourists.
The Tour Operator tehn went to MRU after leaving MLE but the flights have not returned since Covid.
No idea why PQC hasn't restarted but agian, Covid had a huge impact on Vietnam tourist numbers.
POP use to remain a MAN departure but all Dom Rep flights are now to PUJ (Various factors incl RIU hotels/government subsidies etc).
SJD went for a 6 month season but sales for the UK were just not enough, though the US tourists love the place!

At the end of the day, its the customers who decide what TUI the tour operator offers, which is the ony dictate for what TUI Airwyas does. So if longhaul destinations are seemed as too expensive in today's Cost of Living crisis, then that's why TUI Airways does less and less. And that's possibly why TUIP was never taken over....

Covid has had a huge affect on a lot of the Longhaul destinations and I'm sure that one day, demand will come back

Summer 2024 BHX Timetable
 

All the talk of TUIs Summer 2024 flights, please see attached the current flight timetable for Birmingham, based on August 2024, fleet of 1x789, 1x788, 2x320s (SmartLynx), 8x737s, (mix of 738s and 7M8s)

Will be interesting to see if any routes are dropped between now and next summer, flight times are also bound to change once airport slots are firmed up, so please use this as a guide only.

all subject to change.

When it was still called Britannia Airways, the company would lease in 737s for the summer from the likes of Air Mali, Gulf Air, PLUNA, Quebecair and Aer Lingus. Can anyone say if these bygone arrangements were more satisfactory than the current shenanigans?

I think we probably can! Britannia had such high standards nothing would be allowed to diminish their brand! The thinking here is that TUI don’t care as much. While everyone will have different thoughts I always remember Thomson trying to use quality third parties and modern aircraft when they didn’t use Britannia. Intasun on the other hand wouldn’t be shy using Aviogenex tu134’s, Balkan tu 154’s and “new” Turkish carriers such as Talia and Toros Air (look them up!).

in defence of Intasun I seem to recall the Jugoslavian government required their airlines to be used at the beginning of IT holidays to the country. I can't recall whether Thomson / Skytours were so early into the Balkan resorts.

[QUOTE=ATNotts;11480111]in defence of Intasun I seem to recall the Jugoslavian government required their airlines to be used at the beginning of IT holidays to the country. I can't recall whether Thomson / Skytours were so early into the Balkan resorts.[/

you’re right Thomson didn’t touch Bulgaria.

But they did go to Yugoslavia and used Adria and Jat with modern western built aircraft rather than Aviogenex.

Even in the Uk, Thomson only started using BIA when they got MD83’s. Dan Air became a regular when they got 737-400’s but it’s well known that Intasun and Airtours used (in the early) days cheap and cheerful 1-11’s.

the Spanish government had a similar policy regarding using local carriers to the one you mentioned. Thomson favoured Hispiania who offered decent service compared to Aviaco for example who were renowned for poor service.

the overall (nostalgic) point was that Thomson of the 80’s and 90’s were careful in selecting airline partners!

Skytours (pre Thomsons name) and in-house airline Britannia Airways were going to Yugoslavia (Ljubljana and Pula) as far back as 1965/1966; in fact they sadly had the Britannia 102 accident at LJU in 1966, G-ANBB.
Horizon using BUA/BCAL, certainly were flying into Dubrovnik by 1971/1972 if not before.

Skytours (using Britannias) also began package holidays to Bulgaria's Black Sea beaches flying to Varna and Burgas not long after in the late 1960's - sold as an 'exotic new' resort, as a cheap alternative to the Spanish Costa's.
I think Clarksons and others also started up to Romania, flying in to Constanta with Dan Air Comets.
There was a specialist operator called Sunquest, and of course Balkan Holidays.
The resorts did not take on that well with Thomsons, and eventually got dropped.
The food in the hotels was dire IIRC and it was still 'too Soviet' and no one spoke English then.

However Sunny Beach today is a big hit again, with 1000's of young Brit's 'Go-To' for a cheap 4S type holiday; Sun Sea Sand (but today forget by Superjet, just add in Sex - and lots of it)

It was of course Yugotours that had the main holiday market in Yugoslavia, and UK charter airlines simply could not compete with the low seat rates of Aviogenex and Inex Adria.

Sadly Yugotours Gatwick pax were to suffer a nasty crash in May 1971 when flying out in a brand new Aviogenex TU-134A-3 YU-AHZ when it flipped over on fast and hard landing made in Heavy Rain at the Rijeka Airport on the Island of Krk.
YU-AHZ had accumulated a total of only 111 airframe hours at the time of the crash.
All pax and the 3 Stewardesses were trapped and succumbed to the smoke and fire. Seventy-two passengers were British tourists, while the others were Yugoslav.
Four flight crew members and one passenger survived the accident, a young lad sitting in the back row who got himself out of the rear baggage hold;
He was son the of the Ambassador to the UK and he was studying in London.
He had a ticket from Yugotours to go home for a holiday to the family's island home.
The other Yugoslavs on board was Josip Pupačić who was a very famous Croatian writer, Poet, literary critic and literary historian.
He was travelling together with his wife Benko and daughter Rašeljka, who a few days before had an operation in London due to a serious illness.
Josip Pupačić fell in love with Krk and especially Omišalj, and intended to buy a house there for his family - these plans were interrupted by this tragedy in which the entire family perished.
At first, he and his family were unable to buy tickets for the fateful flight. They got the tickets only after another UK family cancelled their trip.

The UK AIB assisted the Commission of Inquiry who pointed to the response and performance of ground emergency services, which could not save the people still alive from the burning aircraft. In addition, it was noted that the number and location of emergency hatches on the Tu-134A did not meet International requirements, and when elements of the interior of the passenger compartment burned, toxic products were released.
It became impossible to open the door from the Flight Deck to the passenger cabin due to the blockage of luggage and Galley equipment when turning over on its back.
External doors and all emergency exits were not open from inside the fuselage, and could not be opened from the outside due to:
- possible deformation of the fuselage; the right wing root had folded over blocking the exit windows, and the fire blocking the left side.
- the opening inside of doors was prevented by fallen luggage and galley items;
- there was a poor awareness of the crew and passengers about the actions and principles of opening hatches and doors;
- it is quite possible, due to the lock system for closing the main entrance door, which has a special latch;
- the lock preventing the opening, in the normal state, of the front door from the outside, was closed by mistake of the stewardess, which did not allow ground services to open the door;
- it was dark, night time; fire.
- lack of illumination of emergency hatches when the aircrafts on-board electrical network is completely de-energized;
- the position of the aircraft on its back, when all escape actions must be reversed;
- and the last: all passengers and stewardesses were left without a Commander, and without his leadership of the evacuation.
It is quite possible that with the correct actions of all of the crew it was possible to evacuate at least some of the passengers through the rear hold opening from where one passenger survived.
The cabin crew and passengers managed to pry open the service door, but by that time the smoke was too thick, and the passengers and cabin crew had succumbed to carbon monoxide poisoning. The situation was very difficult; The plane turned over to be doused with kerosene, which burned fiercely for over 2 hours after the accident.

Of course, this 1971 crash to UK passengers was the subject of much debate in the Westminster Parliament over the safety issues using Foreign charter airlines and with Russian built aircraft.


Britannia Airways, as mentioned, had summer 737 leases with mostly decent airlines, such as Transavia etc.
They obviously subbed in AdHocs when the program was all going Pete Tong, and they would go with whatever they could get - Pan Am 727's for instance and many other exotic sub charters.
One of the not so good series of summer flights that Britannia subbed out was using CTA Canafrica DC-8's (I think from EDI and GLA to Spain)
We would love to fly on one of those DC-8's today of course for the pure nostalgia, but perhaps not for the delays LOL.

Intasun flying from the Regionals used Aviaco,Transeuropa, and of course Dan Air - with night departures, often at unearthly hours.



​​​​​​​

Good job putting all that together and based upon this it looks like BHX is having quite a considerable capacity reduction for 2024 as this year there are two flights a day being operated on the high capacity 325 seat 787-8 aircraft however in 2024 these are being replaced with 189 seats 738 and Max aircraft .

So potentially that’s 544 less seats a day x 7 3,808 seats a week less than this year I can’t see they have added more flights with PFO losing 2 787 flights and DLM the same

Yes less dreamliner flights, but TUI's spin on it, is that they are basing an extra aircraft at Birmingham for 2024! - I guess at least with most aircraft being 180 seaters, it will be easier to manage when aircraft go tech!

Is there a similar timetable for MAN & LGW? Very interesting to read, I guess with 767s going, MAN will also face a capacity reduction.

BHX
 

In a word no, a small capacity cut and if Almeria is added back then it will be up slightly although have based my figures and 189 seats due laziness :) rather than the 320's showing.

What you have to remember it is 12 based 7 days a week, this summer is 11 based but only 5 days a week with a 788 disappearing on Wednesday and Thursday leaving 10 based. Therefore two days a week has two extra aircraft but I concede I am shocked at the amount of times aircraft number 12 operates to other UK airports during the day - it was 5 times no less but seems to be 4 now as Enfidha on Sunday returns straight back to BHX which hopefully means Almeria will be released shortly.

Another change which are not included in my estimates is the flight only to Antalya and Dalaman show the Sun Express flights which are massively increased on this summer taking up some of the deficit caused by the reduction from the 789 to 738. I still make it over 60000 seats next August and it was only just over that this August.

Almeria is a bit odd as it goes out full most weeks but often isn't in the first release or it is and gets removed for it to reappear, there is space for it on Thursday and Sunday.

Pete

Not quite certain where you are getting the information from Pete, re Enfidha on Sundays for BHX Summer 2024? Still showing that the aircraft operates on a W pattern (to BFS) from late May to the end of September. - Almeria won't be added back, as their is no current spare aircraft slots for it on Thursdays or Sundays

Sorry Samj, only done BHX, don't have time to work our MAN & LGW at present.

Sunwing causing issues again, this time at GLA.

Yesterdays Dalaman flight was cancelled and the Sunwing aircraft flew back to Aberdeen. Flight has been rescheduled for this afternoon using Sunwing inbound from Palma.

As a result this afternoons Palma flight will be operated by a TUI 737-800 (G-TAWJ) which will then fly to Aberdeen before returning empty to Manchester.

TUI
 

[QUOTE=Matt995;11480945]Not quite certain where you are getting the information from Pete, re Enfidha on Sundays for BHX Summer 2024? Still showing that the aircraft operates on a W pattern (to BFS) from late May to the end of September. - Almeria won't be added back, as their is no current spare aircraft slots for it on Thursdays or Sundays

It was in the holidays section and not the timetable section and it was when I put in specific dates but I didn't realise TUI prefer you to fly the days they want you to go not the days you want to go. It does this without an option to select +/- 3 days option. I put in Tunisia the Sunday option appeared so I selected it without adding filters for price or resort and I strangely had this notion that the Sunday flight would appear but I hadn't noticed the first 15 holidays displayed were the Monday flight. I trust they are trying to sell Monday over Sunday and don't give two hoots what the customer actually wants.

Perfectly understandable if you select Sunday and the only flight is Monday.The same happened with Dubrovnik, I selected Thursday and the first 10 holidays were Sunday - what an infuriating piece of software. The Jet2 website strangely shows you the day you have asked for, what a unique concept that is. In the results page you can filter your options is the left hand panel in TUI if you notice but my word :confused:.

I still half expect a Sunday & Thursday slot to appear for Almeria by changing possibly the NBE and DBV and the spare Thursday slot was an easy error to spot, it was the P&O Malta which I hadn't noted as I was using TUI and naturally isn't displayed

The TUI timetable is very easy to use but doesn't automatically show the return landing time which is a pain but at least there is an option which is more than Jet2 does now.

Pete

I flew on one of those! to IBZ in 1987. All female crew for cockpit visit… im sure they might even have been smoking! Mixed surly Spanish crew and some BY cabin crew. Meals were Britannia branded. Noisy, smokey, long stretched DC8. Departed and returned on time. I even have a grainy kodak instapic of said- DC8 on tarmac. Had no idea in those days that wasn’t the actual carrier we were supposed to be on. GLA also had a TransAer A320 for a summer in partial lease tail colours.

BHX SUMMER 24
 

With Matt's help, August 2024 is around 800-1000 seats per week down (depends if it is a mix of the 300/325 seat 788) on August 23 but TUI could counter that by saying they have taken a significant amount of seats on the Sun Express Dalaman and Antalya and it would be difficult to dispute as DLM appears to have increased from 3 to 10 per week and AYT from 8 o 12 per week.

Do we really think the BHX aircraft is going to operate BHX-NBE-BFS-NBE-BHX? That will take some convoluted crew sorting.

Pete

The BHX - NBE - BFS w pattern is plausible; there was a MAN - PMI - BFS w pattern when operations restarted in 2021. The lucky crew would position with EasyJet on a Friday, night stop in Belfast and then do BFS - PMI - MAN the following afternoon. The unlucky crew would do the earlier MAN - PMI - BFS, wait in Belfast airport and then position home with EasyJet back to MAN.

Vivid memories of Britannia subbing in Transavia B737-200s especially on Saturdays at Luton using call sign Transavia 097 if my memory is correct to operate four sectors then returning back to Amsterdam late evening. Messrs Davidson, etc were very particular in what they subbed in.

PH-TVP was leased to Britannia in 1983. She turned up at Leeds Bradford every summer Saturday in 1983, from and to Pula. Never knew if this was a Thomson or Yugotours job. Maybe both.

Does anyone know the percentage of short-haul work being done by the 787 fleet. I wonder if this will increase next year with 767s being retired. Thanks

Seems to be more on short haul out of MAN and BHX, with a handful out of LGW. I am also intrigued as to what they do with 787s on short haul next year. Are the 767s really that unreliable they need to go?