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Originally Posted by inOban
(Post 11592503)
Actually the North Sea, being shallower, can generate very steep and confused seas while the open Atlantic has gives a more regular motion.
But anyway we'd best not totally derail ourselves from the actual thread. |
Back on track indeed, all seems very quiet at the airport presently with no news apparent, not sure if that’s good or bad?
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Originally Posted by rog747
(Post 11592250)
Many thanks for all of your comments and suggestions - I have now done a complete swerve in getting from SOU to NCL LOL !
Two Night Mini-Cruise to Newcastle from Southampton 28 Feb 2024 (2 nights on the ship) Fred. Olsen Cruises - MV Balmoral How much --- £99 for a nice outside cabin, 2 nights on the ship, and all food. The ship Booked! Coming back to LHR on my BA Avios. https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....44362f9a3.jpeg |
Credit to @SeanM1997 on X
Eastern shifting from Orly to Paris CDG from 31st March |
Sensible move and will hopefully attract onward worldwide connections. Would also expect AF to take on this route in time
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Originally Posted by SKOJB
(Post 11597314)
Sensible move and will hopefully attract onward worldwide connections. Would also expect AF to take on this route in time
Hopefully Air France will resume this route at some point in the future 😉 |
I'm intrigued by the suggestion this will attract onboard worldwide connections.
I've just had a look at several worldwide routes on several dates after the 31st March and the best option, each and everytime in terms of cost and time, is to go via Amsterdam with KLM. Unless Air France start operating it with their own equipment, and / or put it on their website and price accordingly, with decent connections, I can't see this route attracting much in terms of worldwide connections? Certainly most would either drive to Heathrow or go via Amsterdam rather than buying a separate Eastern ticket and then onward travel from CDG. |
Originally Posted by cavokblues
(Post 11597336)
I'm intrigued by the suggestion this will attract onboard worldwide connections.
I've just had a look at several worldwide routes on several dates after the 31st March and the best option, each and everytime in terms of cost and time, is to go via Amsterdam with KLM. Unless Air France start operating it with their own equipment, and / or put it on their website and price accordingly, with decent connections, I can't see this route attracting much in terms of worldwide connections? Certainly most would either drive to Heathrow or go via Amsterdam rather than buying a separate Eastern ticket and then onward travel from CDG. |
Then hopefully they get it in their booking system pronto.
Weird one though, as considering they're effectively the same airline, why would Air France / KLM potential look to potentially cannibalise the Amsterdam connection and dilute those yields and returns from connecting traffic? |
Originally Posted by cavokblues
(Post 11597346)
Then hopefully they get it in their booking system pronto.
Weird one though, as considering they're effectively the same airline, why would Air France / KLM potential look to potentially canabolise the Amsterdam connection and dilute those yields and returns from connecting traffic? That being said, the route needs to operate reliably, else it won't work for anyone. |
Originally Posted by cavokblues
(Post 11597346)
Then hopefully they get it in their booking system pronto.
Weird one though, as considering they're effectively the same airline, why would Air France / KLM potential look to potentially canabolise the Amsterdam connection and dilute those yields and returns from connecting traffic? Air France via CDG could offer another hub connection from SOU plus destinations that are unserved by KLM via AMS. Although SOU-CDG will have a certain amount of point to point traffic I'm certain that there's some demand for connecting with Air France at CDG. On a plus side it would be great for SOU to have service from both Air France and KLM, just like in the past. |
Originally Posted by Sotonsean
(Post 11597353)
I totally agree with you on all counts but regarding your last paragraph.
Air France via CDG could offer another hub connection from SOU plus destinations that are unserved by KLM via AMS. Although SOU-CDG will have a certain amount of point to point traffic I'm certain that there's some demand for connecting with Air France at CDG. On a plus side it would be great for SOU to have service from both Air France and KLM, just like in the past. |
Originally Posted by davidjohnson6
(Post 11597354)
Why would AF open a CDG-SOU route with their own metal when they are not operating CDG-BRS ? I know Easyjet is a formidable competitor, but there's presumably a lot more potential for Air France in Bristol than Southampton.
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In December 2023, CAA data says:
Bristol - Orly - 11,250 pax Bristol - CDG - 27,159 pax Southampton - Orly - 1,871 pax Yes, Easyjet is a strong competitor... but there's a very big market for AF to tap in Bristol. Cardiff-Paris seems to be ending in late March and Lufthansa recently dropped Bristol, making Bristol a lot more appealing for AF-KL |
Well, KLM service, as you know has now got up to 3 daily flights from SOU to AMS, and I just saw your post on our Bristol thread too re the ''No AF to CDG'' still.
I too am surprised that AF are not picking up again from flying the UK Regionals to CDG, so are the Alliance concentrating on the AMS Interline traffic rather than via Paris? I do not know the answer to the one sorry. I do use the SOU-AMS KLM connection as my ''go to'' choice if I can get a good connection (I have done NBO ATH and VCE this way in the recent past) Plus, I can use, or earn Virgin Atlantic Flying Club Miles on both KLM and AF. |
Pax Comparisons
Now that December 2023 data is available from the CAA it's interesting to compare Southampton passenger numbers to similar sized airports
https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....7cb37490e6.png Total pax. Note Sept 2017 is missing from CAA data Pre-pandemic we see the summer peak was trending down for Southampton but up for Cardiff. Southampton has the most passengers during the winter. Bournemouth is doing better now than it was pre-pandemic, leading the pack for 2023: https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....a6c2984107.png Total pax Filtering to just charter traffic shows how Southampton & Inverness differ from Cardiff & Bournemouth https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....cd4d5590a9.png Charter pax Which is illustrated better here: https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....33680e1c86.png Pax by type - Southampton and Inverness are mostly scheduled UK with little or no charter flights 2024 will be very interesting... |
Remember that AF/KL do their planning in conjunction and would be loathe to dilute connecting traffic through AMS in favour of CDG unless there was a good reason to do so that would benefit the group.
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Airport Consultative Committee Minutes
Minutes from the February Eastleigh Airport Consultative Committee are available.
The Head of Planning and Development for AGS Airports Ltd gave his report (appended to minutes), and reported that: · There had been no safety issues or incidents reported in the past four months. · Passenger numbers were forecast to be 1,026k for 2024. · EasyJet commenced Glasgow and Belfast routes, in addition to continuing Geneva (up to 24 flights per week). · BA operated a limited service to Bergerac over the Christmas period. · EasyJet announced Palma, Alicante, and Faro for summer 2024. · KLM would introduce a third daily rotation to Amsterdam at the end of March 2024. John Lauwerys asked if, as per the evidence submitted through the planning stage for the runway extension, the airport would continue to run at a loss until passenger numbers reached 1.2 million. The Head of Planning and Development for AGS Airports Ltd confirmed this continued to be the case. |
Originally Posted by Ascupart
(Post 11598491)
Minutes from the February Eastleigh Airport Consultative Committee are available.
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Originally Posted by Ascupart
(Post 11597587)
[SNIP] lots of really interesting data [/SNIP]
The charter traffic dichotomy is really interesting, as is the difference in seasonality . Superficially it's surprising that neither has attracted inbound charters for highlands tourism / cruises. I started to look up Southampton cruise numbers thinking that they must be lower than I was expecting. In fact 2022 was a very respectable 1.76m, which is amost very almost immediate pre covid levels (2019 was a small fall on 2018 anyway) and the third highest in the last 20 years. It appears to be confirmed that either cruise traffic is a very insignificant contributor to SOU numbers generally (or that everything else has fallen off a cliff, which is less likely). |
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