UK pandemic government aviation policy
 

Are the U.K. government trying to wipe out the U.K’s airlines? This airbridge policy could hardly be implemented in a more damaging way.

The way changes are being implemented at short notice will undermine people’s confidence in booking anything.

The way they lump geographically (and epidemiologically) distant places in together is illogical. Even a week of “x country is now under increased monitoring due to infection rates” would give people more confidence.

I think this government are lacking in ability and their behaviour is bordering on reckless when it comes to the aviation sector.

Another random COVID thread, when there's plenty already. Anyway, could just as easily argue that the aviation industry's approach to the pandemic has been reckless.

Boris has totally lost the plot on Quarantine
The cases in the U.K. are verging on the same level as the resent entries eg France.
We are now restricting entry to all from Holland France Spain Portugal.
Most of our food is imported by sea from these countries.
If these countries retaliate and require our lorry drivers to take a test or Q for 14 days a crisis could develop.
In Nelsons time the Royal Navy blockaded Europe might the reverse happen to the U.K?

You're wasting your time as the majority on here are covid sympathisers. Whether it be the European posters or the Aussie posters, they all seem to be in fear of it. To think this is an aviation forum too, then there are those that point you towards all the science in order to beat you down.

We in the industry will have to live with this decimation because there's not going to be much left when this all blows over.

If you think their approach to Covid and the aviation sector is reckless you’ll be livid when you find out what they’ve got planned for January 1st....

Such policies actually do a wonderful job on discouraging travel to the extent when most people will no longer need any blanket ban to stay put. The sole thought that your destination might get onto the wrong list while you are there, sending you into the Mickey Mouse uncontrolled "self-isolation with exceptions" upon arrival, will make you think more than twice before booking. Whether the potential public health benefits of that outweigh the tremendous economic damage is quite arguable. I would instead be looking into something similar to the German setup - large-scale testing of those returning from high-risk REGIONS (not countries - regions!) instead of blanket restrictions on whole big chunks of the world, a huge part of which isn't any more dangerous than the UK in terms of contagion risk. But probably in a year or two we'll know more about who was right and who was wrong.

My belief - and I don’t care if anyone agrees or not - is that Boris wants everyone to holiday in the U.K. so that we are not dependant on any other country for tourism. This is part of his Brexit strategy and he has already openly said there will be no summer holidays abroad this year pre airbridge so the latter was just a half hearted approach at pacifying those that questioned why it wasn’t doing anything to support the travel industry. Boris is deluded and wants to make “Britain great again” but fails to recognise the importance of inbound tourism and economic benefit.

This winter will see casualties - they are already hard
months and with very little summer funding to help airlines through, plus the lack of confidence others have alluded to, we are in very dangerous waters.

The virus isn’t going away. However we as a country are failing to adjust our ways of living to accommodate the virus and instead we are trying to fight it. Labour were spot on in that the government need to up their game on the track and trace system and adequate testing measures rather than blanket quarantines.

Cloud 1
Tend to agree with you re BJ and unspoken policy. I think he would like it if all holiday money was spent by the UK population in the UK, and if not on holidays on doing up houses replacing cars etc , preferably UK manufactured if at all possible. I am not sure its a plan, as BJ does not do that ,more of a gut feeling of his, which he acts on all too frequently, for those surrounding him and the recipients of his "gut" effect. I do not see any light yet at the end of the tunnel in this, so I think it will be tough winter for this sector.
Kind regards
Mr Mac

Autarchy in UK...great plan

It is impossible to run any business on the basis the government will allow you to operate this week but might ban you next week and penalise your customers for doing business with you. Then, to rub salt into the wound, they say the consequences of their decisions are your problem.

Does the UK have an aviation policy; let lone one to get through the pandemic?

At a stroke the decimation of airlines & with it the airports removes too any personal confliction for the Prime Minister in regard to RW3 at LHR.No more waiting around in wellies & the show boating hard hat photo op waiting for those `dozers anymore.So conflicted was he... did he not "disappear" to Europe on an "urgent" or "prearranged" visit when in charge at the F/O so not to be present at a pertinent vote in the Commons back in the day....
C19 handling ineptitude helps to remove what were the many looming expansion projects from virtually every UK airport & therefore relief from decision making resulting in avoidance of any Minister/Government confrontation with what though before C19 was clearly fast becoming deference to the Green lobby juggernaut.
Very harshly for the industry but for politicos only concerned with their own personal short-termism doing nothing strategically now only meddling & muddling produces clearly a win for themselves unfortunately...
Aviation decisions & strategy not just kicked into the long grass but into the long grass many meadows away appears the scenario with these opportunistic muddle heads...
The only hope could be in the Autumn with a Chancellor with clear sights on the top job setting out strategic No 11 policy inc reducing or abolishing say APD to start...or specific & targeted support for industry sectors...

Either way we cant carry on like this, there is literally going to be nothing left of the Aviation industry and a lot of others come to mention it!

I don't see the point in a Lockdown (let alone another) unless you lock everyone down until there is no trace of the virus left. What's the point in having a lockdown and then ending in at the start of the summer as humans will just be humans therefore, infection rates are bound to creep up again. Its almost like part of the plan was to have a 'second waive!'

The only alternative I can see is just to carry on as old normal (i.e as if it was 2019) and just learn to live with the thing as we do other viruses. Sorry if that may sound selfish but I'm afraid the path we are on at the moment is leading to nothing short of disaster.

N79

Well that's a new one on me.

Isn't sympathy a bit wasted on a virus ?

For what it's worth, with the country in such a mess (whose fault? - discuss) how is flying on an Irish Airline, using Arab fuel to a Spanish resort and spending British currency in a Costa Brava bar going to help? Sorry but Boris hasn't got much right but he is OK on this one.

Because ciderman we need airlines and an aviation industry along with the multiple thousands of jobs it secures. Please wake up and realise the bigger impact here. Boris most certainly has not got it right at all. The U.K. are behind many other countries and it’s all well and good saying their cases are rising but that’s the case everywhere and will be the case here in the U.K. regardless. Feel free to sit in isolation if you wish but we need to keep planes flying.

Spending holiday money in the UK wouldn't necessarily reduce casualties across the board. While it's true that a part of your money will thus go to a hotel/restaurant owner in Penzance instead of a hotel/restaurant owner in Costa Adeje, the failure of airlines, travel agencies and all other British businesses relying on international travel is likely to far outweigh this in terms of overall impact.

This is a crisis. We face a pressing need for a testing kit to check for the presence of a brain within the human body.

650 kits required at Westminster with utmost urgency. Please advise immediately if any sign of a brain is found.

Boris isnt bothered about the UK population just his scumbag crooked friends who will still holiday abroad and dodge isolation by private jets and citizenship in tax havens.

Lets face it he and his friends , Gove and Cummins and Hancock have had their hands in the till over PPE kits and testing aps allegedly giving contracts to companies owned by friends and family.

An awful state of affairs exemplified by having aircraft carriers when e need patrol boats and using A400s where a Cessna 150 would do the job.
The Ameircan's have a word for what they are doing to us-Gaslighting and we are just watching it happen

This is now the third Covid 19 thread or should I call it a government bashing thread. It doesn’t matter what the government does the usual suspects will see it as an opportunity for political points scoring.

Travelling abroad for a jolly during a pandemic has never struck me as being bright particularly when the virus has propagated through mass travel. The virus can quickly get out of control so the government reacts to countries with problems and people here don’t like it.

Coronavirus in Europe: Infections surge in France, Germany and Spain. Germany blames returning holidaymakers https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-53747852

This is going well, isn't it? Personal insults and conspiracy theories, who'd have guessed.

So, how about a few facts - how does the UK's "aviation policy" compare to our neighbours in terms of quarantine, support for airlines, etc?

The policy is simple, not sure how you missed the recent announcement: "**ck business" - Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson, UK PM.

The UK gave the Hungarian holding company of Wizz £300m who didn’t need the money so allowing them to pay off £300m of loans with cheap UK loans.

LTNman...

Semantics or no this thread title appeals more...certainly to myself & is quite specific if you care to read or re read the heading...

I count two different threads & like me you have posted across both but your good self has continued discussion thru at least two airport threads as well may I point out...

You mention mass travel but airbridges were/are contrived rightly or wrongly from political & Governmental desire too though yes/no? & all modes of travel basically encouraged by the Government in recent times...

If the majority of posts may appear "government bashing" to you perhaps that may indicate others view & express certain issues differently but are no less valid in these trying & difficult times for the industry..

Isn’t this factually incorrect? It was in fact a U.K. based subsidiary?

There is a long list of people exempt from the regulations and it includes lorry drivers and those traveling weekly for business. I assume such exemptions would be reciprocal. Lots of EU nations were quarantining brits and many still do so we are by no means alone in this. Ireland is still advising against travel to almost everywhere.

As for the conspiracy theories in other posts, it’s good to see everyone believes everything they read on social media...

That's a good question and maybe someone has easy access to that data. I don't unfortunately but have found that Germany has, effective today, imposed some form of self-isolation at home for those returning from Spain and the Balearic Islands. They seem to define 'risk areas' as those having a 14 day cumulative infection rate of 50 per 100,000 population. Spain is 111, Malta 84, Belgium 59, Netherlands 42, France 34, while the UK is currently 17 per 100,00. It seems that the UK applies a lower infection rate to its quarantine policy than does Germany at this time.

A previous poster stated that the UK's infection rate is "verging on the same level as .... France". That's hardly accurate as it is only 50% of the current French infection rate.

The money went to the holding company which is Hungarian. Not saying that is wrong but on the face of it seemed a little strange except Wizz Air Holdings LTD is listed on the U.K. stock exchange despite not being a U.K. company

Like many I have lost foreign holidays this year when both Gibraltar and Spain imposed their own travel bans. In my case they were holidays booked last year but it was something I had to take on the chin and just accept. I now watch winging holidaymakers returning from France saying the decision was disgusting when it has been hinted about for a good week as French numbers rise.

Seems to me like most people coming back from France aren't "winging" at all but just fairly accepting albeit disappointed. At the same time theyre trying to avoid being put in lockdown again. Maybe the Daily Mail/Express/Sun have put a spin on it for some. I haven't booked a holiday this year but I don't begrudge other people taking the gamble, especially if it helps to keep some sort of revenue stream coming into the aviation industry. I guess some people are quite happy for airports and airlines to fail and for employees and investors to take a hit, or maybe they don't understand basic business.

Nice edit LTNman...but still contradictory yes/no...

The question you require to answer for yourself is WHO did nothing to discourage & even encourage all modes of & including mass travel (airbridges) in recent times that as you point out is causing the increase in outbreaks if not the Government itself?...Contrarily you choose to castigate others here instead for "government bashing "in pointing out reality (albeit in their own way perhaps)

Reality & answer is simples keeping to the theme of the thread...This Government does not have a strategic approach for airports with the current pandemic & everyone is feeling or will feel consequences...
Mass travel is/was obviously too soon especially with an inadequate test/trace & mitigation system & clear lack of focused virus education on their own media for younger people who as travelers too are the main spreaders now.

I don't think that the government encouraged mass travel. It always said that it would not hesitate to reinstate restrictions and that any travel was at your own risk. It merely listed those destinations which at that time were lower risk.

Correct wouldn`t really disagree with the headline/strap announcements/advice from Government but after many weeks of lockdown it could be thought the resulting rebounding scale of holiday travel was inevitable/predictable & therefore condoned (of course at own risk) Certainly the PM turned volte face & sought to encourage a large return to public transport right out of the box...

This policy also continues to poll well with voters hence why it’s continuing. In polling, bailouts and support for airlines also gets very little support. Few people think airlines look out for anyone other than themselves hence when airlines then want help few are willing to support them. Especially with BA being shown in the media as firing their staff to rehire on lower wages despite profits and VS being shown as the toy of a tax dodging billionaire.

The government made clear that any destination on the list could easily be removed and at short notice. Ministers also said in interviews that they wouldn’t recommend booking holidays abroad.

Lorry drivers have never been subject of quarantine or travel restrictions at anytime throughout the whole pandemic. A lot of foreigners refused to deliver but we were still getting about 10 artic loads a day from Poland and Italy.

BA318

"Ministers also said in interviews that they wouldn`t recommend booking holidays abroad"....

Ahhh that explains the Secretary of State for Transport red faced & expedited back to the UK from holiday in Spain to serve his 14 days Q forthwith then...

Doesn't mean they all followed the advice... I know several MPs are in France and Holland now and will also be affected.

At the end of the day it is obvious that a global pandemic is still underway and any trips will be at risk. Surely we don’t need the Government to tell us everything constantly? The media have been reporting for a week that France was likely to be added back to the list and they did give a day and a half notice which was more than Spain and Belgium got.

While the government have not covered themselves in glory (yet again) with their decision the airline industry didn't exactly help themselves by suddenly putting up prices for those people wanting to fly back before the deadline. One flight (didn't catch which airline) was mentioned on the news yesterday evening with the price going from £100 to £300. Profiteering? Surely not.

I think we should be very concerned about the U.K. virus case position, in the last 3 days it has risen by about 40%
2days ago 1009 yesterday 1129 today 1440 We are heading the same way as France.
Even if there is no further increase that’s circa 10000 cases on a rolling 7 day measure.
I should be very interested to know how the experts calculate the 17.4 per 100000 level that they report
notwithstanding this rise the deaths are falling so is all this lockdown being overplayed

I’ve got a lot of legitimate criticisms of the Government and I’m glad to see some of those issues being picked up fairly widely by others. You don’t have to be a Remoaner to see giving a £150m contract to a £100 company run by a friend for PPE that turns out to be inadequate is wrong.

This is something we can’t prove, but the cynic in me thinks the strategy IS to harm the aviation sector. Amongst the very many electoral problems for the Tories to see off is airport expansion, and to a lesser extent the climate change lobby. Well, decimating the sector very much puts Heathrow and others very much back into the long grass. And possibly gives scope to reduce APD without upsetting environmentalists.