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-   -   NORWEGIAN 787s (https://www.pprune.org/airlines-airports-routes/624394-norwegian-787s.html)

PIK3141 11th Sep 2019 19:11

Nine at Prestwick today, some rotating through, at least 5 now in storage.

Vokes55 11th Sep 2019 19:16

That’s why they’ve significantly reduced the winter flying program this year. No point operating routes with no winter demand like Seattle and Chicago in January using wet leased aircraft.


brian_dromey 11th Sep 2019 19:25

Norwegian have 5 787s parked up for the winter, am I interpreting this correctly?

Its one one thing for Jet2 to park used 733 & 757s, but sparking new 787s with large capital/leases to pay.

Vokes55 12th Sep 2019 03:53


Originally Posted by brian_dromey (Post 10567690)
Norwegian have 5 787s parked up for the winter, am I interpreting this correctly?

Its one one thing for Jet2 to park used 733 & 757s, but sparking new 787s with large capital/leases to pay.

Like BA, Virgin and every other RR-powered 787 operator have been doing for the last 3 years?

I don’t think 5 is an official number, the inspection program is being ramped up this winter by all accounts. Shedding seasonal routes for the Winter to get the bulk of the work done during a period when there is no money to be made is sensible.

Also worth noting that Norwegian do the majority of their maintenance in Prestwick, so aircraft will be passing through for other reasons than RR-related ones. This may of course change when the new Boeing hangar at LGW comes on-line.

JonEMA 18th Sep 2019 14:02


Originally Posted by Vokes55 (Post 10567938)


Like BA, Virgin and every other RR-powered 787 operator have been doing for the last 3 years?

I don’t think 5 is an official number, the inspection program is being ramped up this winter by all accounts. Shedding seasonal routes for the Winter to get the bulk of the work done during a period when there is no money to be made is sensible.

Also worth noting that Norwegian do the majority of their maintenance in Prestwick, so aircraft will be passing through for other reasons than RR-related ones. This may of course change when the new Boeing hangar at LGW comes on-line.

The 'park or fly ' decision is an interesting one......
Out of interest...how many BA and VS 787 aircraft were parked up last winter...?

Vokes55 19th Sep 2019 12:24


Originally Posted by JonEMA (Post 10572929)
The 'park or fly ' decision is an interesting one......
Out of interest...how many BA and VS 787 aircraft were parked up last winter...?

I’m not sure about last Winter, but currently at least three BA and two VS 787s are engineless at LHR. This farcical situation shows no signs of ending.

JonEMA 21st Sep 2019 14:17

Thanks Vokes.........looks like Norwegian's RR powered 787s will be mostly grounded this winter........

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/r...gine-nb6svvcst

inOban 21st Sep 2019 15:27

Surely the cost of all this is being borne by RR?

back to Boeing 21st Sep 2019 16:00


Originally Posted by inOban (Post 10575410)
Surely the cost of all this is being borne by RR?

eventually when the 2 legal departments can thrash out the details.

JonEMA 23rd Sep 2019 09:31


Originally Posted by back to Boeing (Post 10575425)


eventually when the 2 legal departments can thrash out the details.

Meanwhile, what will their winter transatlantic schedule look like..?.....same but with more wet leases or a cull similar to their European?

racedo 23rd Sep 2019 10:48


Originally Posted by back to Boeing (Post 10575425)
eventually when the 2 legal departments can thrash out the details.

From a Norwegian perspective the cash from Boeing and RR is what will keep the company going for an extra year or two.

back to Boeing 23rd Sep 2019 11:50


Originally Posted by racedo (Post 10577132)
From a Norwegian perspective the cash from Boeing and RR is what will keep the company going for an extra year or two.

Depends on when they get the cash.

racedo 23rd Sep 2019 15:03


Originally Posted by back to Boeing (Post 10577183)
Depends on when they get the cash.

Not really. Banks and Lenders will happily lend money now against future income. The whole Invoicing Discount industry is based on it. Assume would get 100 million in 1 yrs time then lender would lend you 80% now and 10% when rest of it comes in with 10% being their cut.

JonEMA 27th Sep 2019 11:47


Originally Posted by racedo (Post 10577366)
Not really. Banks and Lenders will happily lend money now against future income. The whole Invoicing Discount industry is based on it. Assume would get 100 million in 1 yrs time then lender would lend you 80% now and 10% when rest of it comes in with 10% being their cut.

I'm not sure anyone would be prepared to lend DY anything given their perilous position. The prospect of RR compensation might play well in another rights issue though......

racedo 27th Sep 2019 12:09


Originally Posted by JonEMA (Post 10580771)
I'm not sure anyone would be prepared to lend DY anything given their perilous position. The prospect of RR compensation might play well in another rights issue though......

People will always lend money of there is a return on it. IF insurance assessors say that at a minimum RR was going to pay £10M (ignore the real figures) then basically you would find a lender who would lend 60% of this now with 30% later when it is actually paid and their fee is 10%. If RR only pay £8M then lender still gets their £1M. Always a risk nothing is paid but they will account for that anyway.

It may seem crazy risk but when a bank charges you to hold money then it is not.

INKJET 29th Sep 2019 14:24

There are 50 engines that need replacing to get them all back up to scratch, they have deferred their bond repayments due December and August by two years and almost all of the unprofitable flying has been dropped, the loads out of London have been full despite wet lease thanks to BA pilots strike action.

Next months results will make interesting reading.

JonEMA 30th Sep 2019 21:26


Originally Posted by INKJET (Post 10582283)
There are 50 engines that need replacing to get them all back up to scratch, they have deferred their bond repayments due December and August by two years and almost all of the unprofitable flying has been dropped, the loads out of London have been full despite wet lease thanks to BA pilots strike action.

Next months results will make interesting reading.

Indeed.......Ink

How quickly can the 50 engines be fixed..?... Rolls are reporting that it will take until the end of 2nd qtr to get through the backlog. Presumably, there is a priority list to work through based on cycles but we've heard nothing from Norwegian about how there's are phased and the effect it may have on the already depleted winter schedule (down 20% YOY)

Bond defaults give them enough cash until just past Christmas by my reckoning so expect another rights issue at some point.

Pulling unprofitable flights out of the schedule is quite easy and relatively instant I imagine. Getting the costs to follow will be more tricky I think.

BA strikes certainly helped I'm sure and I bet Norwegian wished they had more seats available for those high yielding, late bookers.:0



clipstone1 2nd Oct 2019 08:56

The bigger issue, is Norwegian are having to ground aircraft that are costing them anywhere around $1m a month in lease payments, then wet lease in Wamos and Hifly etc to cover, costhing them lets say another $1m per aircraft per month. SO already $1m an aircraft down every month.

Its all well saying RR wiull cough some compensation at some point, but a) it may not over the additional costs and b) may take years to come in, causing a cash flow issue in between.

Trinity 09L 2nd Oct 2019 12:10

Winter cruises
 
Out of interest, who will replace the T Cook long haul flights for the forthcoming UK-Caribbean winter schedule, DY aircraft?

clipstone1 3rd Oct 2019 14:34

Norwegian don't have enough of their own LH aircraft, hence the various wet leases in they have. Winter longhaul will be a challenge, perhaps a non European operator?


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