Manston-4
 

River Oak appear to be persevering with their attempt to reopen Manston.

https://www.aircargoweek.com/riveroa...irfreight-hub/

The previous thread appears closed so this new thread offers the opportunity to watch how the situation develops .

There have been more reports of Manston being raised from the dead than resurrection stories in the bible. It would be great to see the airfield re open, but surely to be an efficient cargo hub it needs to be more central with good road and rail links Sited 70 miles from London on an eastern peninsular and closer to Europe than most of the mainland UK it is hardly conducive to being a cost effective distribution centre.
But don't knock it until you've tried it. Go Manston!!

For the right company it is actually a fairly good location. It is next to a motorway and with the new Lower Thames crossing could have fairly good road access to a large chunk of the UK.
It also has a ready made freight port just down the road and is near the tunnel and HS rail network.

For a freight operator coming into the UK and Europe there are much worse places to be.

From the cargo perspective, you have to look at the alternative (Dover/Folkstone), which for a freight operator using lorries, constantly being stacked on the M20, it's a credible alternative.
Instead of having lorries stuck for hours/days on end, fly in/out of Manston and transfer goods on to lorries from there?

Would very much depend on the overall cost, but the time save could more than make up for it, especially with Brexit/ Enhanced border checks coming in soon...

Also for a large manufacturer. There is room to build a large facility with your own runway and port. Would be great for an Airbus type setup but not sure how many of those types there are around.

When was the last time lorries were stacked on the M20 ? Do you know the cost difference between air freight and sea freight ? Costs are night and day.
Its not going to be a great business move to have an airport open ready on standby in case operation stack.

Anyway RSP or what ever they are calling themselves today have withdrawn their DCO application to reopen Manston as an air freight hub.

https://infrastructure.planninginspe...ction=overview

But only temporarily.

And boom...there goes my suggestion

@TopTrumps. Yes there are additional costs to apply, i'm not disputing that. And yes it's been a while since the stack was in place. But thinking Longer term, when that dreaded B word happens, checks will take a lot longer, regardless of whatever deal is made. that will inevitably make the backlogs longer and the stack 'may' become a more common / daily occurance
It was merely the idea of having a freight airport nearby, which would bypass that time inconvenience that i was emphasising

And compared to the ports, what priority would the airport be for checks??

I think some of the recent posters have been on the sauce and/or to much sun. The capacity of a B747 freighter is over 110-120 tons that is equal to four 32 ton lorry loads. Over two million lorries use the tunnel or the ferry between Dover and Calais each year - get real people!

Great to see this thread back... it really cheers me up

C3b

pprune is full of threads from well meaning folk who really really believe their WW2 airfield will be the next Schipol if only people see the light

Where in the letter issued by RSP's legal team BDB does it state temporarily ?

Maybe this bit?

I see it as the application is withdrawn and they may make a new application, the previous application has not been temporarily withdrawn, its been permanently withdrawn. A new application will have to be made.

Get real.

There is in effect zero unemployment in Kent hence why would any manufacturer site there when it could do so easier in North of England plus get the land cheaper.

There are no inherent skills base that would persuade someone to site there.

That's a "plain silly" suggestion!

Have you any idea how much it costs to put a 13.6m artic on Eurotunnel versus the cost of flying 23 tonnes? The best thing to do with Manston would be to turn it into the enormous truck park that may, perhaps will be needed if things go wrong with the Brexit negotiation.

Where in the North of England would you find, or be able to build a port and a large runway in close proximity? Not to mention access to a motorway, high speed rail and the tunnel. And why would you when you have Manston/Ramsgate available? To build this kind of facility would cost a fortune and take years just to get through planning.

If there are jobs then people will move, jobs are always welcome. I was however merely referring to the infrastructure available and the fact it must be useful to someone. Seems a shame to have both a large runway and a nearby port going to no use in an area that would welcome any growth and actually wants the aircraft to return.

Teesside? Humberside? Outside of England, Prestwick.

I'm not suggesting EVERYONE moves away from the M20 Freight channel and straight into Manston, that would economic suicide all round.
Again, not disputing this, but focusing more on the 'time save' and company-specific hub you could install

Maybe 1 or 2 operators could have made use of it initially. Wasn't expecting this level of backlash to be honest,

I wonder if we will hear from the good Doctor again, now that River Oak appear to have pulled the rug from under his feet?

Teeside would require running any traffic to the port through built up areas as well as major construction. I have been involved in the potash tunnel up there and it was a nightmare getting it through planning & the campaigners Humberside is a better option but it isn't exactly surrounded by potential employees and so would still be less attractive than Manston with is close proximity to London and the channel.

As for Prestwick, that's too far away to be viable under the same plan.

Again, it was merely me musing about what a waste of ready made infrastructure it is in a prime position for Euro access. I have no specific idea of it's use and maybe there isn't one. It just seems such a shame to let it go when we struggle so much to build anything similar.

In a post Brexit world I can't help but think it is an asset we should try to preserve.

Sorry, it was my rather poor attempt as humour - they say that sarcasm is the lowest form of wit, but with your handle I couldn't resist it.:O

The really time sensitive stuff that get delayed tends to be flown anyway, hence the AN12 and AN26 charters that are frequent visitors to BHX, along with Metroliners and SF340 equipment. However, if the UK doesn't stay in the customs union, and doesn't get another frictionless electronic or other fancy system in place, even cargo being flown in to airports closer to where the cargo is required are potentially subject to delays. Presently an aircraft arrives, the cargo taken straight off, transferred to a van and rushed to the line stop. With HMRC getting in way that quick transit just won't be guaranteed.

It's all (if you'll pardon the pun) "up in the air" at the moment, and the clock is ticking, as we are constantly being told.

And HMRC will likely prioritise the volume traffic at the ports - doesn't take much to jam up Dover.

Points taken, and thanks for the complement ATNotts :)

That is in effect FULL employment.

Nope as there already are those facilties around.

You are being unrealistic I am afraid.
People will move for High tech, High Paying jobs but no company is going to build in invest where there is in effect full employment, low skills level, high housing costs becasue there is a disused airport beside it.

As for being beside Tunnel well seems like the Rail Freight depots around Rugby don't have an issue with it because stuff comes direct on a train to there.
As there is the retail distribution triangle where everyong has major RDCs then when locate where you can't get the staff in a high cost area where housing is expensive.

Reason why RDCs are in Rugby area rather than Manston is get to all the UK from Rugby area quickly and back, in Manston its an additional day.

Sadly Manston doesn't offer anything than is not offered elsewhere.

The last time I looked at a map the UK was in Europe, I suppose you mean continental Europe.

Even if a big bag of cash was found and the road/rail links improved, there looks little room to slide the runway Westward on extension to increase overflight heights of Ramsgate residents.
Either locals are 'for' it or 'against' it so little point Thanet CC and locals having an appetite to keep it an airport (or do they mean a large area of nothingness?) if night flights not acceptable.
I know a company that are looking for such a facility in SE UK but couldn't be expected to make it work with such a restriction.

Wonderful!!! Just when I needed cheering up this thread is back!!!!

Manston however isn't. And won't be.

Getting back to the question asked.....just for keyboard sake... it will never happen... Manston needed another 300mtr extension on the western end - it would have meant re-routing the minor road to the industrial estate off of the main roundabout to Monkton - for the width and PCN strength required - it was about 1 million a metre for the job to be done and Wiggins at the time whilst good at rattling the pot in the City - was living in cookoo land in their expectation.

We had done a deal with KLM on the back Pfizer at the time and got an agreement with Sean Coyle from Ryanair to launch routes..... but then the McGoldricks rocked up with the grand plan for the old Debis F100's on a lease by hour proposal and that was it - Oliver Iny was skipping around the city promoting Gatwick mk 2 - at that board meeting in Mayfair to approve of the plan for EUjet - one of us got up mid-pitch and walked out resigning on the spot - making a statement that it was financial suicide and impossible to achieve or deliver as per the expectations of the proposed plan... the rest, as they say, is history!!

Manston could have been:

• A good little regional turboprop airport for a few routes like AMS / EDI / MAN / FRA in the 30-78 seat market
• Max 250,000 pax per annum
• A good little seasonal 738 route for a 16-week single rotation to the Algarve
• A good freight airport for perishable and livestock
• An excellent Biz airport if they had laid a few acres of more concrete and popped up a load of sheds to keep them in - the heli route shuttle to town is very quick and easy from there, and it would have been a damn sight cheaper than any of the London airports.

Ce la vie!

Speaking of which, when will the runway extension at Lydd go ahead?