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-   -   Manston-4 (https://www.pprune.org/airlines-airports-routes/607615-manston-4-a.html)

SWBKCB 11th May 2018 08:25


Originally Posted by Prophead (Post 10143835)
Where in the North of England would you find, or be able to build a port and a large runway in close proximity? .

Teesside? Humberside? Outside of England, Prestwick.

Plane.Silly 11th May 2018 09:03

I'm not suggesting EVERYONE moves away from the M20 Freight channel and straight into Manston, that would economic suicide all round.

Have you any idea how much it costs to put a 13.6m artic on Eurotunnel versus the cost of flying 23 tonnes?
Again, not disputing this, but focusing more on the 'time save' and company-specific hub you could install

Maybe 1 or 2 operators could have made use of it initially. Wasn't expecting this level of backlash to be honest,

paully 11th May 2018 09:12

I wonder if we will hear from the good Doctor again, now that River Oak appear to have pulled the rug from under his feet?

Prophead 11th May 2018 09:26


Teesside? Humberside? Outside of England, Prestwick.
Teeside would require running any traffic to the port through built up areas as well as major construction. I have been involved in the potash tunnel up there and it was a nightmare getting it through planning & the campaigners Humberside is a better option but it isn't exactly surrounded by potential employees and so would still be less attractive than Manston with is close proximity to London and the channel.

As for Prestwick, that's too far away to be viable under the same plan.

Again, it was merely me musing about what a waste of ready made infrastructure it is in a prime position for Euro access. I have no specific idea of it's use and maybe there isn't one. It just seems such a shame to let it go when we struggle so much to build anything similar.

In a post Brexit world I can't help but think it is an asset we should try to preserve.

ATNotts 11th May 2018 09:49


Originally Posted by Plane.Silly (Post 10143875)
I'm not suggesting EVERYONE moves away from the M20 Freight channel and straight into Manston, that would economic suicide all round.

Again, not disputing this, but focusing more on the 'time save' and company-specific hub you could install

Maybe 1 or 2 operators could have made use of it initially. Wasn't expecting this level of backlash to be honest,

Sorry, it was my rather poor attempt as humour - they say that sarcasm is the lowest form of wit, but with your handle I couldn't resist it.:O

The really time sensitive stuff that get delayed tends to be flown anyway, hence the AN12 and AN26 charters that are frequent visitors to BHX, along with Metroliners and SF340 equipment. However, if the UK doesn't stay in the customs union, and doesn't get another frictionless electronic or other fancy system in place, even cargo being flown in to airports closer to where the cargo is required are potentially subject to delays. Presently an aircraft arrives, the cargo taken straight off, transferred to a van and rushed to the line stop. With HMRC getting in way that quick transit just won't be guaranteed.

It's all (if you'll pardon the pun) "up in the air" at the moment, and the clock is ticking, as we are constantly being told.

SWBKCB 11th May 2018 09:53


Originally Posted by ATNotts (Post 10143920)
Sorry, it was my rather poor attempt as humour - they say that sarcasm is the lowest form of wit, but with your handle I couldn't resist it.:O

The really time sensitive stuff that get delayed tends to be flown anyway, hence the AN12 and AN26 charters that are frequent visitors to BHX, along with Metroliners and SF340 equipment. However, if the UK doesn't stay in the customs union, and doesn't get another frictionless electronic or other fancy system in place, even cargo being flown in to airports closer to where the cargo is required are potentially subject to delays. Presently an aircraft arrives, the cargo taken straight off, transferred to a van and rushed to the line stop. With HMRC getting in way that quick transit just won't be guaranteed.

It's all (if you'll pardon the pun) "up in the air" at the moment, and the clock is ticking, as we are constantly being told.

And HMRC will likely prioritise the volume traffic at the ports - doesn't take much to jam up Dover.

Plane.Silly 11th May 2018 10:45

Points taken, and thanks for the complement ATNotts :)

racedo 11th May 2018 21:35


Originally Posted by ScotsSLF (Post 10143769)
18265 people were claiming unemployment benefits in Kent.This has increased since last month. Thanet has the highest unemployment rate at 4.6%. Sevenoaks has the lowest unemployment rate at 0.8%. The 18‐24 year old unemployment rate in Kent is 3%.18 Oct 2017

That is in effect FULL employment.

racedo 11th May 2018 21:49


Originally Posted by Prophead (Post 10143835)
Where in the North of England would you find, or be able to build a port and a large runway in close proximity? Not to mention access to a motorway, high speed rail and the tunnel. And why would you when you have Manston/Ramsgate available? To build this kind of facility would cost a fortune and take years just to get through planning.

Nope as there already are those facilties around.


If there are jobs then people will move, jobs are always welcome. I was however merely referring to the infrastructure available and the fact it must be useful to someone. Seems a shame to have both a large runway and a nearby port going to no use in an area that would welcome any growth and actually wants the aircraft to return.
You are being unrealistic I am afraid.
People will move for High tech, High Paying jobs but no company is going to build in invest where there is in effect full employment, low skills level, high housing costs becasue there is a disused airport beside it.

As for being beside Tunnel well seems like the Rail Freight depots around Rugby don't have an issue with it because stuff comes direct on a train to there.
As there is the retail distribution triangle where everyong has major RDCs then when locate where you can't get the staff in a high cost area where housing is expensive.

Reason why RDCs are in Rugby area rather than Manston is get to all the UK from Rugby area quickly and back, in Manston its an additional day.

Sadly Manston doesn't offer anything than is not offered elsewhere.

EESDL 2nd Jul 2018 22:03

So how much does the runway need to be extended to permit the big freighters to come and go?
Is there still the real estate available to extend?

flying phil 2007 3rd Jul 2018 06:53


Originally Posted by EESDL (Post 10186884)
So how much does the runway need to be extended to permit the big freighters to come and go?
Is there still the real estate available to extend?

The runway was long enough to take a 747.. it was also exceptionally wide I recall..

Remember seeing a Virgin 747 doing training circuits at Manston.. maybe it will reopen.. it must be the closest runway to Europe.

”Planet Thanet” was a bit run down in the 1980’s but seems to have recovered.


compton3bravo 3rd Jul 2018 07:00

The last time I looked at a map the UK was in Europe, I suppose you mean continental Europe.

EESDL 3rd Jul 2018 17:04

Even if a big bag of cash was found and the road/rail links improved, there looks little room to slide the runway Westward on extension to increase overflight heights of Ramsgate residents.
Either locals are 'for' it or 'against' it so little point Thanet CC and locals having an appetite to keep it an airport (or do they mean a large area of nothingness?) if night flights not acceptable.
I know a company that are looking for such a facility in SE UK but couldn't be expected to make it work with such a restriction.

flying phil 2007 3rd Jul 2018 22:35

Yup.. I think Manston is doomed unfortunately.. its a shame as it has so much history

I have been in Ramsgate when old DC-8’s and 707’s have thundered low overhead.. dont think the locals will be in favour of it being reactivated.. Gatwick is not too far away for most of Kent.. and the transport connections to Manston are not very good .. shame ;(

Heathrow Harry 4th Jul 2018 17:57

Wonderful!!! Just when I needed cheering up this thread is back!!!!

01475 4th Jul 2018 20:29


Originally Posted by Heathrow Harry (Post 10188517)
Wonderful!!! Just when I needed cheering up this thread is back!!!!

Manston however isn't. And won't be.

Planespeaking 5th Jul 2018 07:21


Originally Posted by 01475 (Post 10188653)
Manston however isn't. And won't be.


It's dead but it won't lie down!!

Jetscream 32 5th Jul 2018 08:07


Originally Posted by EESDL (Post 10186884)
So how much does the runway need to be extended to permit the big freighters to come and go?
Is there still the real estate available to extend?

Getting back to the question asked.....just for keyboard sake... it will never happen... Manston needed another 300mtr extension on the western end - it would have meant re-routing the minor road to the industrial estate off of the main roundabout to Monkton - for the width and PCN strength required - it was about 1 million a metre for the job to be done and Wiggins at the time whilst good at rattling the pot in the City - was living in cookoo land in their expectation.

We had done a deal with KLM on the back Pfizer at the time and got an agreement with Sean Coyle from Ryanair to launch routes..... but then the McGoldricks rocked up with the grand plan for the old Debis F100's on a lease by hour proposal and that was it - Oliver Iny was skipping around the city promoting Gatwick mk 2 - at that board meeting in Mayfair to approve of the plan for EUjet - one of us got up mid-pitch and walked out resigning on the spot - making a statement that it was financial suicide and impossible to achieve or deliver as per the expectations of the proposed plan... the rest, as they say, is history!!

Manston could have been:
  • A good little regional turboprop airport for a few routes like AMS / EDI / MAN / FRA in the 30-78 seat market
  • Max 250,000 pax per annum
  • A good little seasonal 738 route for a 16-week single rotation to the Algarve
  • A good freight airport for perishable and livestock
  • An excellent Biz airport if they had laid a few acres of more concrete and popped up a load of sheds to keep them in - the heli route shuttle to town is very quick and easy from there, and it would have been a damn sight cheaper than any of the London airports.
Ce la vie!

flying phil 2007 5th Jul 2018 09:10

Oh well .. there is always Lydd just down the road.. and over a few hedges, roundabouts, etc..


Prophead 5th Jul 2018 10:05

Speaking of which, when will the runway extension at Lydd go ahead?


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