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Thread 365
[QUOTE=highwideandugly;10131098] Amazing..tell me again where these hypothetical passengers are going to come from? have these hypothetical passengers arrived? interesting few months ahead! |
So are you saying they built CAX a terminal and now they are going to cancel all flights? I don’t think so. in my opinion it’s one of the following but definitely not pulling CAX- SEN route it just wouldn’t make sense. 1. Extremely high demand and not enough capacity. 2. Delay in aircraft delivery. 3. Schedule restructuring. 4. Runway, terminal or infrastructure not ready. |
Originally Posted by TartinTon
(Post 10157439)
Daz211....every day between now and Dec? Don't be so ridiculous. Either the route is under review or whoever is doing their revenue management needs sacking.
take September for instance Sunday to Sunday CAX-SEN-CAX showing on skyscanner at £103 ish. |
Anything's possible except 1. Tickets have been on sale for some time - they would have seen the tidal wave coming and dealt with it with relish.
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And 04th to 11th June on the same route showing £146 rtn. Not high enough to put people off booking in my opinion, maybe if it was £346 them maybe. |
Originally Posted by daz211
(Post 10157618)
And 04th to 11th June on the same route showing £146 rtn. Not high enough to put people off booking in my opinion, maybe if it was £346 them maybe. . Look, there's clearly a problem here - even if it's just website issues |
I wouldn't attach much weight to the Skyscanner results as they would send you to the Loganair website to complete the booking So it's what's on the latter that counts and the prices it's showing have been mentioned already in this thread.
If it was unprecedented demand causing this apparent sell-out of cheaper flights there'd presumably have been a) a press release to that effect given it's a new operation and the airport operator would want to trumpet that fact b) some additional flights at peak times or c) some flights upgraded to the S2000. There is no evidence of any of that happening. I don't think it's a delay in aircraft deliveries as I don't think Loganair have any more on order and hence they were doing these flights from their current fleet. |
£146 return? Try and book it Daz....
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Loganair have advised someone on another forum that they have a problem with their website. Not that that means much.
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Is the government subsidy paid per passenger, per flight or per route. While subsidies are fine for Island routes there is something fundamentally unsettling here. |
Originally Posted by LTNman
(Post 10157867)
Is the government subsidy paid per passenger, per flight or per route. While subsidies are fine for Island routes there is something fundamentally unsettling here. |
What subsidy are we talking about? I thought Carlisle was a straightforward commercial operation?
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Originally Posted by Albert Hall
(Post 10157966)
What subsidy are we talking about? I thought Carlisle was a straightforward commercial operation?
CAX has also received funding for some of the airfield improvements. |
Why, what's the difference? |
Originally Posted by LTNman
(Post 10158008)
Carlisle is one of the best connected towns in the country via motorway and the railway and has a half hourly services to London. By the time minimum check-in times are considered and then the hour train ride to and from Southend there is next to no saving. Looking the other way there are also direct train services to both Edinburgh and Glasgow. Island communities are isolated and Carlisle isn't. If Stobart wants to run a service that is fine but not at taxpayers expense.
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Carlisle is one of the best connected towns in the country via motorway and the railway and has a half hourly services to London Drive south down the M6 for an hour and you'll reach Lancaster... Manchester and Glasgow airports are two hours away, Newcastle over an hour on a poor single carriageway road. Anyway, if Stobart meet the criteria for funding, why shouldn't they benefit? |
Although it must be said that it would be quite bizarre if Loganair was preparing to exit the CAX operation by selling tickets only from the highest fare basket, but at the same time the new CAX operation is advertised prominently on the landing page of Loganair's website. I would expect them to yank all advertising for the routes at the same as they yank all cheap fares with a view to axing the route.
Who knows? Maybe some sort of power game between Stobart and Loganair? I am sure Loganair gets massive "marketing support" from Stobart for the route launch and maybe there are some hiccups regarding those and Loganair is demonstrating the leverage it has. As for the official "subsidies", my understanding regarding the Regional Air Connectivity Fund is that is not really about straightforward subsidies, but more about discounted fees etc. |
As for the official "subsidies", my understanding regarding the Regional Air Connectivity Fund is that is not really about straightforward subsidies, but more about discounted fees etc |
All the doomers and gloomers can now be rest assured that from Loganair there message is " we are experiencing some technical issues but unfortunately due to the bank holiday this may not be rectified immediately"
Lets move on...………………….. |
Originally Posted by fjencl
(Post 10158088)
All the doomers and gloomers can now be rest assured that from Loganair there message is " we are experiencing some technical issues but unfortunately due to the bank holiday this may not be rectified immediately"
Lets move on...………………….. |
When routes like Leeds-Newquay and Southampton-Lyon were other Regional Connectivity Fund beneficiaries, it is pretty hard to argue that Carlisle is thereafter a waste of taxpayers' money, surely? RCF existed to encourage airlines to start new routes and improve regional connectivity, as the name implies. There can't be many more glaringly obvious examples of improved connectivity to or from a region than this....
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Originally Posted by LTNman
(Post 10158008)
Carlisle is one of the best connected towns in the country via motorway and the railway and has a half hourly services to London. By the time minimum check-in times are considered and then the hour train ride to and from Southend there is next to no saving. Looking the other way there are also direct train services to both Edinburgh and Glasgow. Island communities are isolated and Carlisle isn't. If Stobart wants to run a service that is fine but not at taxpayers expense.
Not only that, but if CAX can get a new terminal, and become a functioning airport again, then it opens up other possibilities down the line. Perhaps in time the flight offerings may be expanded - a couple of additional routes from Loganair, FlyBE have hinted they'd run a LHR service if a 3rd runway was approved, and KLM like to offer flights from the regions. There's also a strong possibility of cargo movements, using the airport for aircraft storage was mooted in the past, and perhaps even an expanded flight training program, scenic flight tours, charters etc. There's a whole range of possibilities now that the airport has a certified runway again, and a basic passenger terminal. Who knows what may happen in future, but without funding, nothing would ever happen. Lets not forget the funding that has been granted is only startup funding - it's not a lifetime subsidy like flights to the Islands receive. It's only good for a few years to get the routes up and running, after that they have to prove their viability. |
Well said and I agree. At the very least they will have tried.
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".It's only good for a few years to get the routes up and running, after that they have to prove their viability. "
at which point 95% of them stop................ |
Originally Posted by Heathrow Harry
(Post 10158912)
".It's only good for a few years to get the routes up and running, after that they have to prove their viability. "
at which point 95% of them stop................ |
Exeter - Norwich and Newquay - Leeds are two (of very few routes to receive RCF monies) that have stayed the course. |
If it really is an IT issue that's causing SEN-CAX to show only high prices then with everyone back at work it should have been fixed by now
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Originally Posted by davidjohnson6
(Post 10159724)
If it really is an IT issue that's causing SEN-CAX to show only high prices then with everyone back at work it should have been fixed by now
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Hi David,
This is a technical issue that is being investigated at the moment. Best regards Mignon Reply to my email last few minutes from Loganair |
All flights from CAX from 04 June to 02 September are now showing as unbookable. Flights are available from 03 Sep, but again only at the highest fare class.
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In the Loganair operations system there are now no longer any flights scheduled from CAX and no aircraft scheduled to be based there until Monday 3rd September. Previously an aircraft and crew for CAX had been scheduled on there but its now disappeared. I suspect there won't be any flights until September.
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I booked a CAX>SEN flight for mid-June and have just received the following email:
It’s with sincere regret that we must advise you that the opening of Carlisle Lake District Airport has been delayed by unforeseen circumstances. A major project to launch air services from a new airport relies not only on the airport’s infrastructure being complete but also a full complement of essential operating staff being in place. Regrettably, changing circumstances around the airport’s staffing means that this cannot be completed in time to receive scheduled flights as planned on 4 June, despite every effort made by the airport and the Stobart Group. Stobart Group will continue to work with all stakeholders, including the Civil Aviation Authority. All parties are confident that the revised 3 September commencement date is both practical and achievable.
Your understanding is appreciated. |
***STATEMENT*** The commencement of scheduled air services from Carlisle Lake District Airport, planned for Monday 4 June, has been postponed until Monday 3 September 2018. The growing global shortage of qualified air traffic control staff available to meet training and regulatory deadlines has resulted in the airport being unable to open for commercial air services in time to proceed with the planned 4 June launch date. Kate Willard, Head of Corporate Projects for Stobart Group, said: “It is with enormous regret that we must advise that the launch of scheduled services from Carlisle Lake District Airport has been delayed. “This major project to launch air services from a new airport relies not only on the airport’s infrastructure being complete but also on a full complement of essential operational staff being in place. “Regrettably, changing circumstances around staffing means that this cannot be completed in time for the airport to receive scheduled flights as planned on 4 June, despite every possible human effort being made. “We know just how much this airport means to the people of Cumbria, South Scotland and the wider North West region and remain fully and wholeheartedly committed to working with all of our partners towards the new September launch date.” Stobart Group continues to work with all stakeholders, including the Civil Aviation Authority, and Loganair is today informing affected passengers. We are confident that the revised 3 September launch date is practical and achievable. In the meantime, Carlisle Lake District Airport will still open for general aviation traffic, requiring a lesser level of air traffic control provision than that required to support scheduled services. Loganair’s Managing Director Jonathan Hinkles said: “Together with our partners, Stobart Aviation, we reluctantly had to take the decision to delay the launch of flights to London Southend, Dublin and Belfast City. “This is hugely disappointing for everyone, especially our customers. We remain fully committed to our partnership with Stobart Aviation to commence regular commercial services from Carlisle Lake District in September. “We’re working hard to inform all passengers and we completely appreciate the frustration which disruption to travel plans can cause. We have taken the decision to delay to September to provide the greatest level of certainty that the new target date for the introduction of services will be met, allowing the travelling public to book with confidence.” All passengers are being contacted by the airline and provided with the option of a full refund or assistance with alternative flights from Manchester or Glasgow as the customer may choose. For those planning to attend the inaugural celebrations at Carlisle Lake District Airport on 4 June, these will now take place on Monday 3 September. |
Originally Posted by daz211
(Post 10157604)
So are you saying they built CAX a terminal and now they are going to cancel all flights? I don’t think so. in my opinion it’s one of the following but definitely not pulling CAX- SEN route it just wouldn’t make sense. 1. Extremely high demand and not enough capacity. 2. Delay in aircraft delivery. 3. Schedule restructuring. 4. Runway, terminal or infrastructure not ready. and not routes being dropped, as others on this site speculated. its unfortunate but understandable with such a large construction project but at least it’s just a delay and not a total loss of air services at Carlisle. |
its unfortunate but understandable with such a large construction project but at least it’s just a delay and not a total loss of air services at Carlisle Meet the woman who has spearheaded the opening of Carlisle's Lake District Airport Now, with the countdown ticking hard to June 4, Kate describes herself as “a woman possessed”. So will she be on that first inaugural flight to London? “No, I will be running around the airport like a mad woman that day. But I know I will watch the first flight take off with a small tear in my eye. It will be a day of celebration and the first flight from London will be a party of journalists who will help to put the destination on the map. |
Could be worse - like the Berlin fiasco!
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SWBKCB
The current ATCO shortage has been known about for at least 25 years. |
Oh dear...now that all comes as a massive surprise..not! i refer you honourable gentlemen to all the (negative)previous posts. If us amateurs could foresee this shambles..why couldn’t the highly paid..and in some cases very highly paid see it? Remember...this is Carlisle never did ,never will..what a waste of money. At least a certain haulage company might not be shedding too many tears..result!!! |
Cock-up, disappointing, PR disaster, take your pick |
The airport must have employed a reasonable number of staff. I don't suppose for one moment they'll be retained.
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