Ryanair will not do anything till contacts are up at nearby airports.

Both TUI and Flybe have flights from Alicante to DSA, and both are generally very expensive. However, I can see that the TUI one-way flights to DSA on Dec 23 and 26 are now just 39 quid. FlyBe, on the other hand, is keeping its prices sky high. Virtually all FlyBe's one-ways are way over 100 quid, and the prices don't even seem to change during the "summer sale" which starts in March. It seems like TUI is willing to drop its prices at the last minute to fill its planes, but FlyBe isn't. It's a popular route, but with Ryanair flying ALC - EMA for peanuts, I can't see FlyBe's pricing policy as being sustainable.

Quite simply it is 2 different strategies to try and create air transport monetary yield where the natural demand is lacking [possibly due to lack of population catchment]. Neither option is sustainable unless the airlines are in some way funded by the airport/ local authority for example.

TUI's fare policy is a tried and tested model that is standard for package operators, why would it be unsustainable? My beef is with FlyBe, who are charging about 100 quid more to fly DSA-ALC than Ryanair from EMA. I'd probably pay an extra 40 quid to fly into DSA but not 100.

Catchment area isn't the problem for DSA, its getting more of those living in the catchment area to use the airport when, in cases such as ALC, FAR cheaper options exist down the road.

Barnstable - The TUI mantra, and its not just for DSA is to fill its aircraft by selling holidays as that is where they make their money. Therefore, seat only prices are quite high to discourage people from booking seat only - and only at the last minute will they sell extra seats off cheap.

You think about Flybe and the profit warning and then you look at the base fares which are mind boggling. Good job the Manchester company has lots of money. All part of the masterplan. Yorkshire paralyzed!

people complaining about £ 100 one way from Yorkshire to Spain!

Amazing.

Obv not a Yorkshireman! When you can get EMA-ALC (EMA 1 hr away from DSA) for £50, £100 is £50 difference... x2 people x2 sectors thats £200 for an apt!

Is that one way or return? If RTN, then the route is losing money. Even single, it's marginal.

FR flights EMA-ALC frequently £32..that’s reality, losing or marginal! At this many will not pay the DSA premium to fly local with BE or TUI

I’m wanting to fly out of DSA to Dublin but I’ve been priced out by Flybe.

If your airport has a tiny catchment area then you cannot get the necessary amount of passenger throughput that will enable the prices to come down such as at EMA for example. The natural demand is always going to be less. Bigger airports with larger natural demand are able to offer the airlines better deals hence lower prices.

Smaller catchment area airports like MME and BLK have in the past offered airlines deals to be there but this as we have seen seldom lasts very long and is unsustainable. Doncaster's Manchester owners are currently doing the same and that is why Flybe's base fares are incredibly low. Ridiculously low. It's an artificial airport with a North Western sugar daddy. Look at the domestic passenger figures from this central UK airport they show the true picture. That is why West Yorkshire has been inundated with adverts for this airport. The North West benefits hugely if Yorkshire has too many airports and Yorkshire keeps on suffering.

Flybe pricing is strange.

In July I had to urgently return from holiday from AGP to MAN due to my daughter needing to be admitted to hospital. Loads of flights available to MAN so no problem there.

After a few days I'm looking for a flight back to AGP, but all fights from MAN are full, same at LPL and EMA, I couldn't get a flight for love nor money. Then I checked flights from DSA and Flybe had availability at only £60.49. When I boarded the next day I was surprised to find the flight was only about half full.

Not good management by Flybe.

I'm surprised. This is my normal flight - usually booked last minute.

By the time I look at the inconvenience of getting to another airport for an stupid o'clock start, the cost of parking etc the Doncaster flight, the reduced risk of traffic value looks better....

Only thing I can't get to work is the return journey which normally involves an extra hotel. Usually fly to manchester and get late train. (PS if you do this get first class. Dirt cheap, and the train is normally busy as the A380 passenger load gets in..

DSA's catchment area isn't tiny, as LA suggests. However, most in the catchment area have 4 or 5 alternative airports to choose from. Very few are inconvenienced by flying from somewhere else. I'm a Sheffielder who regularly flies to and from Alicante who'd love to fly from DSA but the price and the (currently early morning) flight times with Flybe and TUI make me look at EMA, MAN and even Liverpool.

This is the problem Barnstable - you don't actually understand what a population catchment is. There are two different population catchments (time and distance). It is the point on a map where the time travelled to get to your airport is equal to the time travelled to get to rival passenger carrying airports. Alternatively it is the point on a map where the distance from your airport is equal to the distance to rival passenger carrying airports. They are both finite areas of land and the population of people therein.

Yes you can induce people to travel from Plymouth to use DSA but the time and distance catchment populations are locked figures. By definition EACH airport has its OWN time and distance population catchment. DSA has a very small population catchment.

Airports define catxhment areas by time. Always have, so LeedApproach your comments are somewhat redundant.

In actual fact if you understood how it works it's more complex than simply catchment areas.

As for the fares, I would argue that the sentiment above is wrong. Is flybe are charging significantly more than the competition at EMA then that tells me demand is high. If they can charge double and still
Achieve the load factor then demand must exist. In this case it's a supply driven model and good news for flybe.

At the end of the day all of this is a balance between supplier and consumer. Where one wins the other loses.

Of course it's great when competition drives down fares (and it's competition that drives the fares down leeds approach not the size of the airport) but when the consumer 'wins' in the long terms it's unsustainable (aka Monarch). There has to be a balance.

Personally £100 for a fight to ALC is not that bad. You can not supply a flight for £39 profitably. It's impossible.

My comments are explaining the maxim. DSA is ringed by airports with much bigger catchment populations and that is why those airports are able to offer cheaper fares/better service. That is the law of catchment populations and why DSA would naturally struggle like BLK and MME for example.

I disagree. DSA has a strong catchment, but like STN, it will take time to develop services and establish its base. It is not the size of the catchment that determines the fares, it's the competition from other airlines, and like I said above, some competition is good and the nature of open skies, but the problem with too much competition is ultimately someone has to lose - this was shown with Monarch last year and there may well be further consolidation to come.

DSA is not in the same league as BLK or MME, and in terms of catchment areas with the phase II link road about to open, i'd say DSA probably has a bigger catchment area than leeds ... and with the Sheffield city region really starting to propser, there are good things ahead for the airport I am sure.

When you see very low fares it is usually-
a, a very efficient airport with large population catchment and large natural demand/competition

b, an airport that is being deliberately 'propped up' as part of a wider aviation strategy

c, a closing down sale

...and you choose which ever fits your agenda! :ok:

Freight flts
 

I have noticed a number of large freight planes coming out of Doncaster and heading south in recent months.

Is their a regular freight schedule or are they only ad hoc ?

Thanks.

A ridiculously loud Antonov bound for Gothenburg woke me at 0130 this morning, so I hope that one isn’t.

LA can you give me the figures for the catchment areas of MME NCL and LBA please. Just would like to know what figures you are using to back up you statement above.

Can anyone advise what the Antonovs to and from Sweden are hauling? Car parts? They provide some lovely sound effects over North Yorkshire, as well as some intriguing routings.

I would have thought its car parts going to Sweden.

Also losses are up at the airport.

https://www.insidermedia.com/insider...t-losses-widen

22 million loss.
Wow.

Taken in the context of Peel's operations as a whole it's not a huge amount. Peel obviously sees a future in DSA, hence the investment, advertising and sponsorship. The losses are accompanied by increased passenger numbers. Obvioulsy such losses are unsustainable year-on-year but as they are pre-tax I imagine that they may be offset against taxes on Peel's profitable operations.

drop in the Ocean when they turn it into housing & offices.

NaaH! They'll just extend the pig farm ....:ok:

Must admit that was my fear a few years ago, but I can't see DSA ending up like Sheffield City given the investment, the growth of the nearby iPort, the publicly-funded link road, the new Amazon base, the planned business park, new freight facilities etc. I'm sure there will still be an airport there in 10-15 years time, even if passenger operations are scaled back. Even if the tonnage shifted is still very small compared to eg EMA, DSA is indeed well situated for freight and logistics

I'm thrilled the airport is doing better at freight, it just needs a few more passenger routes, especially in winter season, keep the routes and the airport will be around for many more years to come.

The one thing that still gets me is the lack of knowledge from locals that we have an airport and where the airlines fly to. Its still not good enough.

The proposed Vulcan hangar and visitor centre now has planning permission.

Still waiting on confirmation of plans from UoS on the AMRC proposed maintenance hangar.

Final phase of the link road is nearly complete, however no idea if the Carillon fiasco will affect its completion.

Reference the final piece of the link road the council has commented as below.

Peter Dale, the council’s director of regeneration and environment, said: ‘The scheme is at an advanced stage of delivery and is due for completion in April 2018.

‘We are currently working with Carillion staff and the receiver PricewaterhouseCooopers who are seeking to move forward and honour existing contracts. We are also working with Tarmac to look at contingency plans if Carillion are unable to continue with the work.

‘As such, we are hopeful that the project can continue with minimal impact.’

Credit to the eysource.

Withdrawn Etihad A340-600 A6-EHJ positioned Abu Dhabi – Bournemouth this morning (17/01) as EY9013 where it will be taken up by 2Excel Aviation.

Interesting to watch 2Excel's operations evolve, as the recently acquired 737 has been at DSA. Presumably the A340 will be based at STN also, but will move around the bases.

The Sheffield Star conducted an interview with Mr Gill yesterday and there was mention of a really big announcement coming at the end of March.

Sounds interesting.

Lets hope its further passenger flights and routes that will stay and not be axed.

Thought the big announcement was the new master plan?

Anyone managed to suss out if the 2018/19 Flybe winter schedule entails less routes or frequencies at DSA?

PAX figures are always very late but so far we're seeing a slight fall in PAX this winter when compared to last winter, presumably due to marginally fewer routes

DSA - Flybe winter 2018/19 schedule is as follows.

Alicante = 2x weekly, Tue & Sat (Extra flight on Thu over Christmas/New Years period)
Amsterdam = Daily
Belfast City = 4x weekly, Mon Thu Fri & Sun (Several extra flights over Christmas/New Years Period)
Dublin = 3x weekly, Mon Fri & Sun
Jersey = 2x weekly, Wed & Sat
Paris = 2x weekly, Mon & Fri

Monday
BE4471 = DSA 06:50 – DUB 08:00 / BE4472 = DUB 08:35 – DSA 09:40
BE4403 = DSA 10:10 – CDG 12:45 / BE4404 = CDG 13:35 – DSA 14:10
BE4415 = DSA 14:50 – AMS 17:00 / BE4416 = AMS 18:00 – DSA 18:10
BE4483 = DSA 18:40 – BHD 19:35 / BE4484 = BHD 20:05 – DSA 20:55
Tuesday
BE4431 = DSA 07:35 - ALC 11:25 / BE4432 = ALC 12:05 – DSA 14:00
BE4415 = DSA 14:50 – AMS 17:00 / BE4416 = AMS 18:00 – DSA 18:10
Wednesday
BE4447 = DSA 10:30 – JER 11:50 / BE4448 = JER 12:20 – DSA 13:35
BE4415 = DSA 14:50 – AMS 17:00 / BE4416 = AMS 18:00 – DSA 18:10
Thursday
BE4415 = DSA 11:00 – AMS 13:10 / BE4416 = AMS 13:55 – DSA 14:05
BE4483 = DSA 14:55 – BHD 15:50 / BE4484 = BHD 16:20 – DSA 17:10
Friday
BE4471 = DSA 06:50 – DUB 08:00 / BE4472 = DUB 08:35 – DSA 09:40
BE4403 = DSA 10:10 – CDG 12:45 / BE4404 = CDG 13:35 – DSA 14:10
BE4415 = DSA 14:50 – AMS 17:00 / BE4416 = AMS 18:00 – DSA 18:10
BE4483 = DSA 18:40 – BHD 19:35 / BE4484 = BHD 20:05 – DSA 20:55
Saturday
BE4431 = DSA 07:35 - ALC 11:25 / BE4432 = ALC 12:05 – DSA 14:00
BE4447 = DSA 14:45 – JER 16:05 / BE4448 = JER 16:35 – DSA 17:50
BE4415 = DSA 18:20 – AMS 20:30 / BE4416 = AMS 21:20 – DSA 21:30
Sunday
BE4483 = DSA 12:00 – BHD 12:25 / BE4484 = BHD 13:25 – DSA 14:15
BE4415 = DSA 14:55 – AMS 17:05 / BE4416 = AMS 17:40 – DSA 17:50
BE4471 = DSA 18:40 – DUB 19:50 / BE4472 = DUB 20:30 – DSA 21:35